Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

The tie-breaker came into play during semi-finals at BMR. The scoring system makes the adjustment automatically before displaying the final score (it adds 1 to the alliance determined to be the winner).

Since most at the event were not fully aware of how this is implemented (this is only for eliminations, not qualifying matches), here is the exerpt from the game manual.

5.4.4 Elimination Scoring

In the Elimination Matches teams do not earn Qualification Points; they earn a win, loss or tie. Within each bracket of the Elimination Match ladder, the first Alliance to win two Matches will advance.

In the case where the Match score of each Alliance is equal, the tie will be broken by awarding an extra point to the Alliance with the highest number of Foul points granted (the Alliance that played the cleaner Match). If both Alliances have the same number of Foul points, the extra point will be awarded to the Alliance with the highest Hybrid points. If both Alliances have the same Hybrid score, the extra point will be awarded to the Alliance with the most Bridge points. If both Alliances scored the same number of Bridge points, the match is considered truly tied and will be replayed if needed.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Don't really recall seeing this happen much until this weekend (IIRC it happened a few other places as well), and honestly, this is an incredibly fair way to break the ties.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

This came into play at Peachtree twice (including the last finals match). As thrilling as some Palmetto elimination rounds have been (who can forget the five-match quarterfinal of 2008, followed by a four-match final?), I think this is really a Good Thing. Fist-bump to whichever GDC member(s) got this in.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

There was an absolute tie at Detroit Quarterfinals 3 Match 3. Same foul points, hybrid points, bridge points, and teleop points. The match had to be replayed.

Edit: Here's a photo:

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I have to say I'm more of a fan of replaying tied matches - as long as everything is according to schedule (which it seems it mostly has been this year), it adds to the drama and fun for spectators...

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I will concede that the drama could be improved on--the deciding point isn't really related well on-screen since we all see the score at the buzzer. I imagine a tie-breaker screen running down the deciding criteria would improve it, though I also wouldn't bet on them making such a change to the FMS midseason.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Agreed

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Nice photo. :D

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I honestly don't see any reason for a tiebreaker. No, I'm not simply saying this because the tiebreaker did not favor my alliance.

First, the favorite matches i remember in my FIRST history was at the 2010 IRI competition. I believe it was the semifinals or so. If my memory serves me correctly, 33 and 1718 (and maybe some other teams) kept hanging at the last second. There were 2 or 3 tie matches and i believe it ended up going to 5 matches (TBA doesn't have results for it). By far the best FIRST experience I've had, and it was because of the ties.

Furthermore, it's not like ties would be substantially prolonging anything. 10 minutes more max added on per match. Not a big deal in my opinion when you're determining the best alliance of 3 robots made by a multitude of students working for over 6 weeks straight.

In addition to this, adding a tiebreaker is like getting rid of Overtime in Basketball. Think of some of the best sports games you have witnessed. There's a good chance it involved one overtime, if not more. How would you feel if your high school basketball team made a game-tying basket at the buzzer, only to be told that you still lose because one of your players fouled out? If you argue FIRST isn't trying to be a sport/be basketball, you're missing the point. Even if that point was relevant, why then are we cutting down the nets?

I'd love to hear some actual reasons as to why the tiebreaker is a good thing, instead of simply saying it's good.

-Duke

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

The first time it had to be used was during quarterfinal match 1-1 where the 8th alliance toed and lost the tie breaker due to hybrid pnts. I was in that, match. Not fun losing by one point ill tell u that.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

If you knew this was a factor going into the game, would you have been more concerned about that player getting into foul trouble?

Here's what I like about it:

-It can shorten the length of the day. A five-match elimination round adds 20-30 minutes easily to the day, which gets significant in certain scenarios (such as starting Einstein on time).
-It's a tiebreaker based in clean play and excelling at the trickier parts of the game (hybrid and bridge). It's not a coin-flip.
-It can be explained in far less than a tweet. No head-scratching formulas (sup, Coopertition Award?), no insider knowledge required--if you understand the basic flow of the match, you understand the components of the tiebreaker.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Duke461

IIRC that also happened in the finals. I remember because my team helps by setting up and tearing down the event so we were there the entire time. It definitively makes it more nerve racking and I enjoy it.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Point understood, but would it still not detract from the game itself? Especially if the situation were similar to the situation at BMR, meaning you would have thought the game was going into OT until the refs told you about this obscure new rule, you'd go ballistic. Point there being, Overtime is what makes that game so incredibly exciting. Just like a tie match in robotics.


Again, I point out 20-30 minutes relative to the time and effort put into every single robot. At the very least, don't have tiebreakers until World.
Why is roughly 1 minute and 30 seconds of time not relevant? I would think that if a team gets beat in autonomous, yet comes back and ties it, then their robots are probably a lot better, and deserve to move on. Tie-breaking choice aside, i refer back to the basketball analogy in two ways: One, fouls can be, in both basketball and Rebound Rumble, very demonstrative of one's grasp of strategy, which can't exactly be measured in ways besides the final outcome. If the final outcome is even, test their strategy in another match. Two, it's not fair to apply one facet of the game as a decisive measure of which alliance performed better. They don't tiebreak basketball games through three pointers made (eq. to auton), free throws made (eq. to bridge), etc. Why here?
I think a tie itself is much easier to comprehend then a tiebreaker. If the score is the same, no one won. Simple.

-Duke

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

During qualifications, a tie means 1 point...better than losing but less than winning. I think i'd prefer it like that for elims.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

As Billfred mentioned above, this happened twice at Peachtree, and both times it involved the 2nd seed. One time it lost us a match, the other time, it won us the regional.

I do not truly know if I am for it or against it. On one hand, our robot was running down to its limits that Saturday. I can say that removing extraneous matches tends to help keep the flow going, drivers engaged, and the robot fresh.

However, there's that settling feeling during a tie. That feeling where you know that there's one more match to battle it all out.

So once again, I don't know if I like it, but I have no complaints.

- Sunny G.