Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

It was 33, 1718, 70, and 51. We went against 1114 and 2056 - I can't remember who the 3rd and 4th teams were. If I remember correctly, we lost the 1st, tied 16-16 (or something like that) in the 2nd, then won to even it up, then had a 20-20 tie, before losing in the 5th match. Those were very fun matches - too bad we didn't come out on top. We also did that in Atlanta on Newton field in the semis - we advanced in 4 games, the 2 victories were split by 2 ties.

I don't know that I feel strongly on the subject of ties or tie-breakers in the elims. I can see the arguments from both sides. I do understand the desire from the event coordination standpoint of being able to time the length of the finals better...but triple overtime can be a lot of fun too!

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I was extremely disappointed by the boos at Boilermaker when the results were first announced.

Teams should know the tournament rules.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Even if they do know the rules, it doesn't mean the teams should be happy with them.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Would they have booed if the tiebreaker went in their favor?

The right time to be in disagreement is before it matters, not when it is convenient.

edit: I do not know if said people had voiced their disapproval in the tiebreaker process before the regional :)

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I'm sure not all of the booing was from the losing teams (although I did not see the match in question). Personally I would hate to win a match via this tiebreaker. We won a few matches last year because of red-cards, and I can't even say I'm proud of those matches.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

A win is a win is a win.
If you did nothing to lose it then you should have nothing to hang your head over.
I witnessed a tiebreaker coming into play twice this year and once last year at FLR.
In the 2011 FLR finals I thought 2056 and 217 were eating 1126 and 340 alive and then 1126 and 340 got first and second place in the minibot race to tie the score. When it was revealed that the winner of the minibot race gets the tiebreaker to win the match the audience was quite surprised. But the more i Thought about it and th teams involved I bet 1126 and 340 knew they couldn't compete with those two juggernauts placing tube but if they could keep them in range they could get them with the minibots and snatch away victory. And that just made me shake my head at how clever and brilliant that was.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

The tiebreaker was a great addition to the rules in the game. However, I wish more teams were more knowledgeable about how the tiebreaker clause worked during the Peachtree eliminations; it was not fun being a referee after the semis, with something that looked like a FMS mistake initially to everyone except the field crew (scorekeepers & referees). The drive teams were NOT happy after the score came up on the screen.......

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

The Rebound Rumble rule is neither obscure nor new. It is openly displayed in the Elimination Scoring section of the Tournament manual, right after the part that says that an alliance must win two matches in order to advance to the next rung of the ladder, and it has been there since Kickoff.

When the tiebroken score caused a commotion at Boilermaker, it took me all of fifteen seconds to bring the relevant paragraph up on my iPod and show it to nearby confused spectators. It would have taken only ten seconds if I had known exactly where to find it, instead of merely knowing that it existed.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Why?

If you win a match via a tiebreaker, it means your alliance played cleaner, scored more in autonomous, or scored more bridge points.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

It also means that even though your alliance received bonus points worth more than regular scoring, the opposing alliance played well enough (and basketed more balls) to meet your score. The potential issue is that in some cases, an alliance lost simply because someone decided they liked seeing alliances use the bridge or score hybrid points more than scoring during teleop.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

All it means is that in the overall scheme of things

a foul is effectively worth (3 + 1 * x)
a hybrid score is effectively worth ((6 or 5 or 4) + 1 * y)
a bridge balance is effectively worth ((40 or 20 or 10) + 1 * z)

Where:
x is the percentage of matches that are tied divided by the number of fouls awarded to the alliance in that match
y is the percentage of matches that are still tied after fouls divided by the number of hybrid hoops scored by the alliance in that match
z is the percentage of matches that are still tied after hybrid

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

This is not a valid argument. We knew from the very beginning that this was how it would be judges so when you built your robot, you should have put a tiny bit of extra weight towards the tie-breaker categories. It's no different than someone's judgement about how many points to award for a balance.

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

i am not much in favor of this but it is what it is.
I think this actually double counts the foul points. Foul points are ALREADY counted in to get to the tie point... so saying that one team played a cleaner match would mean that you are rewarding a team first by giving them the foul points (thus tying the match) and then by virtue of the tie breaker giving them additional advantage (even though without the foul points they wouldn't have tied in the first place) In a game where a simple brushing of a bridge or a robot can cost a team between 3 and 9 foul points this seems extreme...

I would have preferred the tie to be broken by the same formula used for ranking points.... hybrid and then bridge...

Fouling in this year's game does not mean a team is playing more cleanly.. it is often a simple miscalculation of momentum .... deliberate fouling... I am ok with that causing a tie break...

GDC has, in essence, taken playing defense out of the game this year.
I guess that is ok... but adding it to the tiebreaker is abit much..

Imagine this final...blue and red are 1 win a piece
REDBOT is behind by 49 points...
BLUEBOT is too close to the red bridge and a red robot (in the act of trying to balance), pushes the bluebot into the bridge... bingo 49 point penalty..
Now the final score is tied... game over
except the BLUE team loses because they had more penalty points..

Agreed... blue is not thinking correctly by being by the red bridge at all... but who is playing cleaner?

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

I meant obscure to the general public and other fellow robotics members. I know this because nearly everybody (but not everyone) out on the field had no idea about it. And even if we knew of the rule beforehand, i refer back to my strategy point and my basketball game analogy.

-Duke

Re: Elimination Match Tie-Breaker
 

Say all you want about "knowing the rules", but no one at the scoring table knew for sure why the score changed from 25 to 26, and it took several minutes for it to be determined and explained.

The "boo's" weren't because of who won, it was because everyone thought there was an error.

The reason i made the original post was to make sure more teams knew.