Courtesy during awards.
 

Usually I see one of these threads every year. I haven't seen one yet this year, and some recent events made me feel pretty strongly that it's time to bring it up again.

This is directly aimed at team mentors.

1. If you don't have to leave (perhaps you have a 10 hour drive) before the awards, don't.
2. While team awards are being presented, clap. It is also your responsibility as a mentor to teach all your team members that they should be clapping and cheering for the other teams as well.
3. Your students should not be texting, playing cards, playing video games, or anything else during the awards.
4. If you can, stand and cheer. You may be looking at a team playing their last event.

As mentors it is our job to teach the team members what gracious professionalism looks and sounds like. Cheer your competitors. Standing ovations for each award. Let those folks know you're celebrating their success, and they'll be right there celebrating yours later on.

To end this on a positive note, I'll highlight a shining star in this regard. Team 2771 (Code Red) is the loudest, most helpful, most boisterous, most fun, most respectful team I've ever been around. We could all take a page out of their book on how to make regional events incredible.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I'll add on a suggestion that IMO should be followed.

If your team is called up for a specific subteam award like website or entrepreneurship/animation; try to only send up a few students to receive your award if you have a large team. It gets a little annoying waiting for a lot of people to go up and down to get awards. That's just my opinion.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Akash
In my opinion, it is only annoying if you are not the team going up.. and then only to a very few teams.
A team should send up the entire team... it is a team award..
Why should everyone not go up? they all worked hard and this may be their only recognition. I will gladly sit and wait for any team to receive their award.
We are not in that big of a rush.

Do you think the whole team should go up to receive the chairman's award?
finalist, champion?
Why should the other awards be any different?

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Teams, disregard this.

Akash, the only awards that are not team awards are Woodie Flowers and Dean's List. Anything else your whole team earned.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Absolutely excellent points. Here in San Diego, Team Paradox 2102 and Devil Duckies 1266 are real models of spirit during our ceremonies.

As to who should go up to receive awards, I'm all for having the whole team, students and mentors certainly deserve recognition for their collective work. What does occasionally get to me is when a large team also brings up all the parents and younger siblings as well; I'd much prefer the emphasis be on the participating students.

One amazing display of GP at the Los Angeles regional this year, when team 597 won Chairman's, team 599 modified their giant "599" sign to read "597" - that was fantastic.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

the families have made sacrifices towards the production of the robot (think about how often... never... they see the "students" during robotics season actually at home. If that team wishes to show the conglomerate efforts of the families, that's fine with me (as long as they don't get a metal, those are for those who directly built the robot [yes, software helped build the robot])

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Akash,

I have much respect for you, but when I read this I was a bit taken back. It does not matter what award the team wins, the point is, it's a TEAM award and the ENTIRE TEAM should celebrate this accomplishment. For example, if the team wins KPCB Entrepreneurship, it took the whole team to compile that business plan to where it is.

All in all, this is a team, and not about the I's or the sub teams. Sorry, but I disagree with you.

Cassie

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I can't agree more. Anyone who isn't willing to wait a few minutes so that a whole team can experience winning an award needs to rethink why you're at the award ceremony to begin with. Awards are given for recognition of teams and their accomplishments. While it may be rude to leave before the awards, I find it even more rude to sit through the ceremony in disgust because it "takes too long."

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Great way to drive the point home. I hadn't ever thought of it that way.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I disagree, I understand that they have given up a large amount, but my parents understand that I love them, and that the time I spend in the shop, and the work I put in year round, is done so that I can make them proud. My accomplishments should "show the conglomerate efforts of the families" Every student is a representative of their family, school, team, and sponsors.

I am against the "everyone and their mom" idea because just as adding water to a salt solution dilutes it, adding more and more people who walk the field dilutes the prestige of the award. 470 will not allow you to come to competition if you don't put in work at the shop. Those who have physically earned it by coding, designing, or marketing deserve the experience of walking the field, shaking the judges hand, and grabbing the award.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Yes I think the whole team should go up for Chairmans, Winner, Finalist, etc.

entrepreneurship was a bad example on my part. Depending on how your awards teams operate, you could have a few up to many students/mentors working on a submission and actually creating the business plan.

Haha, I didn't say you had to agree with what I thought about certain awards, no need to be sorry for that. I simply appreciate it when large teams send up a few students to receive something like website and animation awards because those were, in fact, only worked on by certain students/mentors.

I see this as something opposite of what most of you said. I see it as allowing certain students to be recognized in front of their own team but also other teams for something specific they have done. So no, I don't think Websites and animations are worked on by an entire team - if they are on your team, then that's awesome. I simply think that recognition of a few for these specific awards is important rather than sending up an entire team. The fact that a few minutes of time are saved- okay sure maybe I was a little harsh there, but hey everyone likes getting to a comfy bed as soon as competition day is done! :p

And Andrew- people reading these posts can form an opinion on their own.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Question for the peanut gallery: Is it rude or inconsiderate for a member of a large team to insist on hugging, shaking hands, or talking with every single judge, delaying the awards ceremony for everyone? Related question is if it would be rude for a team to stand around for 5 min before walking for their award because they were waiting on an absent member. Basically, at what point do you think a team delaying the ceremony would start to be inconsiderate?

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I've never seen this happen (except for WFFA, but at the events I normallly frequent, WI, IL, and MN, the WFFA is awarded and congratulated by all other WFFA winners in attendance), but I could understand it for the last award of the night (WFFA or Chairman's). I've never seen a team not stream onto the field, maybe with a couple stragglers. I think waiting around unless you're around 5 or less people who were somehow much closer would be rude.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Interesting that you would pick animation as an award you think only a few work on.

For those of you who don't know I started out doing animation and have been a website mentor for several years now. I can absolutely say that the notion that these subteams don't work hand in hand with the entire team is absolutely wrong. The team must support them in their passions, they must provide content for the website, ideas for the animation, and feedback on both. There is nothing more discouraging than hearing someone tell you that what you are doing doesn't matter or even not backing you up on what you're interested in.

By your logic I shouldn't go up with my team if they win an award for a mechanical system or a cool construction technique because I had nothing to do with it. I think even you would think this is stupid.

If you can't find the extra time to wait for the WHOLE team to celebrate their team's accomplishment I suggest you find a new hobby. I believe in celebrating greatness in all forms, even if it involves celebrating people who supported their team mates. Actually, strike that, I think that people who support their team mates should be celebrated especially hard.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

If that is how your team operates, then by all means send them all up if you truly believe everyone lends a hand in the work. I simply disagree.
And yes I brought up website and animation specifically because I do think that only a few work on these things and deserve to be recognized in front of their peers. If you want to continue to argue about opinion, PM me.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I would like to add Team 2169, King-Tec, as an exemplary example of a team that celebrates the awards of others. Recently my team won the GM Industrial Design Award at the Lake Superior regional, and on our way down to receive the award, members of King-Tec on the aisle were high-fiving us and all of their members were cheering as if they had won the award themselves.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I'd prefer to talk about facts -- such as the fact that a lot of good team web sites have content contributed by many team members. It's not just the web "coders" who are responsible for the award-winning sites.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I've seen both, several times at regionals. (I'd say it's mildly inconsiderate, but nothing to be too concerned about.)

It's historically been more complicated at the Championship, because the field can be so difficult to access from the stands. At some point (by 2004 for sure), FIRST started asking teams to designate a few members to accept awards. (I don't know what procedure was used in St. Louis last year.)

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Say a website has a photo gallery. All students are in the photos there. Each photo is then contributing to the content of the website which I believe is one of the evaluative criteria. Each person has contributed and should walk on stage.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

If you're trying to say that you believe all members should walk on the stage based on a technicality, you should probably rethink your position. I'm not saying that not every member should go up, but that's a really weak reason for taking this position.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

As for FAMILY members walking, I say yes. Here is my reasoning:

As a volunteer for various activities for many years I have observed that:

the volunteers give their expertise but the FAMILY gives their TIME.

If a Mentors child (Robot Orphan) feels invested in the team enough to celebrate with the team, they should.

This holds true for post season parties also. Teams should celebrate and thank the families also.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

When I played sports as a child, my father would always say, "You play as a team, you win as a team, you lose as a team."

Therefore, I do not think there is anything wrong with letting entire teams go up (even parents). Whoever wants to go up to accept the award should go and teams can use their best judgment. And if a team is oblivious to a faux pas that others find annoying, other teams in the audience should be GRACIOUS (that is what the term means, after all).

Should the entire team go up for website? Of course! The entire team would go up if they won the regional or if they won an imagery award. It is a motto for my team: We win and lose as a team. No matter what, we are all together.

Why is this even a big issue anyway? Aren't there more pressing issues for FIRST fans to address? Like blatant safety violations, overcrowding of venues and inconsistencies between regionals?

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Paraphrasing a student, "Regardless of how many students actually worked on something or put effort into that part of the team, I do believe that each student should be able to walk and receive a high five because that will ultimately build the most confidence and let the student embrace the winning aspect much more."

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Frankly, I don't quite care what people do during the award ceremonies as long as they do not hint a level of disrespect.

For example, during the Friday award ceremonies a couple of members and I sat in the pits and talked about the day, and the day to come. We didn't feel like standing in the crowd, and so instead of hanging around in the stands, we returned to the pits.

Another example is that on Saturday, during the closing awards, we sat in the stands and politely clapped for all of the awards. The only award I actually stood up for was the Chairman's Award, and that too wasn't because of the award, but because of the caliber with which 1311 had presented themselves.

Honestly, this is slightly ridiculous. I understand drawing a line on not disrespecting teams, more specifically, booing teams or not clapping for teams, etc. But to dictate how I choose to show my support and/or appreciation for a team seems...incorrect.

- Sunny G.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Well, Sunny, the original point was that we, as mentors (and I assume you are), are just that mentors. We're not only trying to promote STEM and Robots here at FIRST but we're promoting something bigger than that, which is GP and Coopertition.

While there's absolutely nothing we can to dictate how you choose to show your support, I think the point that should be driven home, is that unless you seriously seriously have an objection to who got the award and you really really need to consider your objection, it's your duty as a mentor to teach your students gracious professionalism. After all you're essentially a role model to them, whether you think it or not, they do look up to you.

Even if you have an objection, someone for some reason thought they were deserving and it's important to acknowledge the teams that received the award, because they obviously were deserving.

So if clapping politely is really your most gracious form of recognizing the team's accomplishments, then we (if you don't mind me saying) encourage you to do so. Just make sure those you are mentoring join you, and encourage them to do so.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Wanted to make this two posts. Since they're two different points:

Akash:
I'm a little surprised at this as well. While I see where you are coming from, using the same logic. You could say that some of these students may not participate in building the robot or driving it, so should they go up for the finalist and other awards?

Going by the same point as the original points, we're here not ONLY to be proud of our team and give respect and awards where they DESERVE to go. But we're here to show that sense of gracious professionalism. No matter how many kids you have, you are a team. Like that quote, you win and you lose as a team.

Although, I think as mentors, we all recognize which students are actually deserving and it's important for US to make sure those students are recognized within the team, but when you're outside, it's important to convey the message that you are a team.

It kind of goes back to gracious professionalism, but this time within your team. Not only are we here working as different teams for a better society, but we're working as individuals within a team to create a better community in turn creating a better society.

Also, I believe that the student recognition was an important thing, and hence, why the Dean's List was established, other than that and the WFFA. I believe all other awards are completely team awards.


-That was a lot of stuff, I can spew for days, but you get my point.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I am alumnus on the team, so perhaps my opinion is more of a hybrid than a true mentor.

Additionally, I agree with everything you have said.

My point, which has become less sharp, is that if a team isn't exactly the loudest in the bunch, it should not reflect on their respect for the team receiving the award, the award itself, and their level of GP.

However, if a team approaches disrespect, then that is unacceptable by nearly all standards.

- Sunny G.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I do believe that all students should be recognized if it were to be within the team or outside of the team. All members should be important regardless of their contribution. It really doesn't matter if a student did not do as much work as the next or none at all. They are there supporting the team and want success just as much as the rest even if they only participated in a small part or none of it at all.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

No, actually, I would not say this. And I will repeat again that I was saying this for two specific awards- website and animation. I have also already said that if your team operates differently, then go for it-send up whoever you like. How you are interpreting what I wrote is not what I am saying about other awards. You also know the 80 person team I come from so I'm also not making a biased opinion on the matter.

(PS good luck in Midwest this weekend Sravan ;) <3)

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

We Midwesterners are not complicated folk. Slop a few hogs, shuck some corn, build a robot or two - it's a simple life. But we do understand work ethic. And if somebody works harder than us and receives an award for it, you can bet yer britches we'll stand and applaud them because, dadgummit, they deserve it. And if they want to bring up the entire town, well, they earned it and it's their prerogative.

It's not Gracious Professionalism, it's not Hoosier Hospitality, it's just the right thing to do.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I am sorry that your team has this policy. Everyone that comes up for the award has had something to do with the team's success. We have many subteams, all of them valuable to the team and some who never come to the shop. The shop workers allow the animation team the time they need to work so that they don't have to spend time working on the robot. We have an active parent organization and even if we didn't, getting up late to go drive students home or early to get a student to the bus for a trip is still a real effort.

If you wear the shirt, you participate with the team. It's the price you pay for wearing tie dye.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

So now some awards are second class citizens? Yup, great way of encouraging students right there...


Al, I won't tell a student they can't come to a local event. But on 397 our policy was if you participate we cover your costs and excuse you from school. If a student didn't put in the effort during build we just didn't cover their costs to travel or excuse them from school. THOSE are privileges and needed to be earned. This policy was partially based on a student who we DID excuse from school thursday/friday and then never showed up saturday.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

OK Andrew,
Again that is where teams differ. Our students can all attend the Midwest Regional if their grades meet our minimums. However, all students have to do a minimum of fundraising in order to get a shirt. Travel teams are selected on each students level of participation on their subteam, their grade in robot class and their grades in general. To participate in a pit crew or drive team the students have a higher minimum grade expectation and is a valued member of those subteams (mechanical, software, electrical, strategy/scouting, drivers).

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Behind the sceens every team has a lot of hard working robotics parents. They may not code, or build the bot but they do provide support, meals, rides, trailers, tools, help with funding etc. These are the things that keep the team going. So If a parent wants to acccept the award with the team let them. They have earned it.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

THANK YOU! I could not have said it better. For our team, if our parents did not make dinner for 50+ people every night we would go hungry or hate pizza, if one of our parents did not graciously pull our trailer and haul our stuff around this country we would only show up to competitions with the basics, if we didn't have a few dedicated parents that build our practice field in full each year, our drive team would just have carpet to drive on, and if we didn't have a select few dedicated parents in our rookie year, today we would not have some of the awesome mentors that we do today (I know many of you have mentors that started as interested parents many moons ago, watched their kids graduate, and are still around today (some 17 years later)). Oh, and one more small thing, if we didn't have a few extremely dedicated parents a some 15 years ago that went to every board meeting every month and praised our team, we would either a.) be a non existent FIRST team, or b.) not have what we do today.

While these are only a few examples from my team, I know that from the stories and friendships formed with teams across the country, I know that many will agree that it is our parents and family members that are a HUGE aspect of each team.

ANY AWARD the team may get is a team effort, whether some want to believe that or not. Yes, our website team is two students that code everything, but the content of the website has come from ideas from every person on our team, and I'm sure it's similar for others. Even if it was only two students, the team is going to support them and congratulate them in their win by going up and receiving the award with them. Same for animation, yes we have an active subteam for animation, but it was ideas that stemmed from every student on the team, including manufacturing, that helped our team create the idea for the animation story that they did.

This is a TEAM for a reason, we all put effort into every department, students, mentors, advisors, and parents alike. We are a team, but most importantly we are a family. We support each other through and through and that bond should be celebrated.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I whole heartedly agree. I mainly meant that as a point towards Akash's few points. That you should show recognition privately to the student of what their TRUE accomplishments are done.

If there's a student that hasn't done much but maybe has been there, listened and done things that they were asked to do. They deserve recognition for being a team member and doing the appropriate things.

I will say that there are some students that clearly deserve more recognition in certain aspects (i.e website, animation) than others for that aspect. I do not believe just showing up and "being" there qualifies you to be a member of the team, and I mean that for students ONLY.

Like Al and Andrew talked about, there are certain expectations that teams have of their members (not to mention their mentors), and if those aren't met they cannot travel. Travelling and going to competition in the team (where the team covers most of your expenses) is a privilege, and without working for that privilege then you will not be able to recieve it.

Also back to Akash, what I meant (stupid phrasing on my part) is not that YOU would say it, but someone else COULD say it, and we both agree that it's not right. Likewise, I would apply that to the website and animation. That the award is given to the TEAM not those two students, hence its a TEAM award, and within the TEAM not only is it the responsibility of mentors to recognize the student(s) that were a big part of that award but also for the team to recognize its own members. You can even extend this to Chairman's or the Robot Awards, that the Chairman's presenters/essay writers are the actual people that PHYSICALLY did the work for that award, and the drive team and "building" teaams are the one that got the robot to win BUT it's a TEAM award, and we should within the team recognize these people and their PHYSICAL contribution to the award.

To further clarify in like a sentence or two. Publicly its a TEAM award, privately it is still a TEAM award. But Privately ONLY privately it is (I believe) a duty of mentors to make sure that the students that put in a lot of work (and this could be all 30 students on the team, or in our team's case all 20 students that actually worked on the bot) get recognition for the work that they did. And furthermore, all students that did work should be recognized, and encouraged, IF they did contribute to the team IN ANY WAY.

(Thanks Akash!!!!)

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Indeed!
Just heard that the abstract I submitted for the Championship conferences was accepted. It is on omnidirectional gear ratios.
Just kidding. It's on "RoboParents: Parental Involvement in FIRST". Nothing earth shattering to those who have been involved, but I hope to include some stats and useful resources.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I remember in 2004 our team won the website award, and we were so shocked and surprised, the girl who worked on the website ran up and took the award, and no one else from the team went up...

In retrospect, winning that award was the only thing our team had to be proud of at that event. Does anyone recall this?



Regardless of who worked on the award, it was still a team effort. Even if it was just providing content about the history, or feeding her copious amounts of caffeine.

But back to the topic at hand. I know we are all a bit tired after FIRST competitions, but I have seen far too many a student sleeping in the stands (I think I'm guilty of this too) The judges spend a lot of time recognizing YOUR 6 weeks of hard work, don't you think they deserve the respect of about 40 minutes of attention?

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I wanted to add an update. This past weekend my team 4096 competed at the Midwest Regional and I never even really spoke to them about GP and Coopertition, but at every single award or any mention of someone I stood up during Friday and the team followed suit.

On Saturday during Awards ceremony, the students stood up immediately, and I followed suit. They were exhausted after three days and were still dancing, cheering for the winners and clapping. Every single award.

They stood for like 15 minutes straight as 111,71 & 2151 got their finalist awards, and if anyone was there. There was about 80 people for 11, and another 50 or so for 71. So it took a while.

From now on, regardless of whether I stand or not, I know that these students will stand and in fact encourage others to make sure the respect that should be given is given.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

How about not working AT ALL in the pits during any awards?
Any noise you make is readily apparent, and people sitting in certain parts of the stands can see you; if you work in the pits during awards, everyone knows you gave a few minutes of your own time priority over celebrating and supporting other teams.

Sunny - Putting the shoe on the other foot, would you mind if another team was decompressing/brainstorming in the pits while your team wins an award? If not, then I think you're approaching things reasonably, although I must confess, this would bother me.

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

Whenever we collect awards, everyone goes. If you get a shirt or loan one out, you're a team member. We would have starved, walked to competitions, and be stuck with ugly bumpers without our parents, and that's just a start. However, I know that the way we collect awards has a purpose. When we won the Motorola Quality Award in 2009, we made sure the designer of the conveyor (the reason we won) went first. When we were finalists in 2010 and 2012, we let the drive team go down and collect both of the trophies before everyone else. When we won the Coopertition Award in 2011, we let the two people who worked on our minibots go first. Everyone chipped into the team and all should be recognized, but the people who worked the most to get the award get to go down first. Also, our mentors always come down last because they are the group that pushes us all forward (and back to the stands so other teams can collect awards)

Re: Courtesy during awards.
 

I volunteer at the CT Regional as FTAA. We are on our feet every day just like any other regional. I am there for the students & cheer them on during awards. It is their time, not mine. Congrats to all the teams that win. I have also been on the receiving end for awards with my team & am so proud of them to have won the award. If they are at the event, the whole team goes up to get the award, including all those background people who help mentor the team during build season. You can't leave out team members for awards. They might have an emotional connection to the team getting that award.