Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

I have always wondered how the awards are chosen. In the past it seems that the teams win a max of 2 awards, when they arguably deserve more. Is there any kind of inter-judge distribution to make sure one team doesn't take home everything?

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

As a former judge of 3 years, I can shed a little light on the topic.

First, different regions handle the issue differently, however, I believe all judging teams try to balance "sharing the wealth" with maintaining the integrity of the awards. In general, there are not steadfast rules about how many awards a team can win at an event.

Second, the job of being a judge is much harder than most people would probably would give it credit. There are often a plethora of deserving teams and a room full of passionate advocates.... "persuading" on their behalf. From personal experience, I am amazed with the amount of energy the Bayou tea puts into trying to select the absolute best candidates for the awards.

I hope this helps.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

If you think judging at a regional is intense, you should see the judging room at Championship. 100 judges evaluating 340+ teams. That is an amazing process to experience

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

When a new job caused me to give up mentoring after seven years, I was pleased to be able to volunteer as an inspector and judge.

It was an excellent experience to see the competition in a new light. While I won't go into a lot of detail into the process of choosing award recipients, I am pleased to report that it is just as fair, thorough and impartial as I had always assumed it was.

It was also at least as tough as I had assumed it was. There are more teams that deserve awards than there are awards. I think Dan describes the process fairly well... there aren't "fixed rules" per se, but more of a guiding principle to ensure that the awards are distributed fairly and rationally. We know it matters that we get it right, and we try our best to ensure we do.

If you ever get a chance to volunteer as a judge, I highly recommend you take it. It is a challenging task, but an energizing one, too.

Jason

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Along a similar vein, is there any preference given to teams that haven't won the award before? One thing I observed at Oregon this year was that both the chairman's and EI were given to teams that had not previously won either award. In fact, in both cases, EI and Chairmans were the third awards the team had won in their history, and 2012 was the first time either had won a judged award since 2007 and 2009 respectively.
This isn't meant to diminish the efforts of either one of those teams. On the contrary, I think it's great to see that FIRST rewards the efforts of a variety of teams who can take the award back to their sponsors. It was just something of a curiosity to see those two teams chosen out of a field where there were many previous EI and RCA winning teams who arguably did more in their communities.
I'm not saying that the prestigious awards shouldn't factor in a desire to "share the wealth", but it is something that has puzzled me.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

For the record, I don't think Denver puts a "cap" on amount of awards you can win. I saw 2996 win 4 in their rookie year (2009) at the Colorado Regional.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Regarding this: how does one sign up to be a judge or an inspector?

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

IIRC, it should be in the VIMS registration on the FIRST website. If not, I believe that someone should be able to redirect you to exactly where it should be.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index....ils&tpid=64015

Four, if you include winning the regional.

From what I've seen (which is basically just MI events), it is rare for teams to get more than one award, with some exceptions. Safety is judged independently from the other awards (as is website, which is judged before the event by a different panel of judges), and it's not impossible for a team to win it as well as another award. Then, some awards are based solely upon robot performance: Coopertition, Highest Rookie Seed, Regional Winner, Regional Finalist. It seems like the judges don't count this "against" you when deciding award recipients, and IMO it wouldn't be fair to say something like "this team was the highest rookie seed, so we won't even consider them for Rookie Inspiration."

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Here is a link answering some judging FAQ's that popped up after the Seattle regionals last year. Kevin Ross and Kevin Reed were pretty thorough in describing judging, and I'm sure most regionals have a similar, if not the same, protocol.

http://www.firstwa.org/FRC/TeamFAQ/F...7/Default.aspx

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Cory,
A real answer lies in the fact that some awards are judged off site prior to the event. So those awards are not in the control of the judges. Some teams do not apply for specific awards like Dean's List, Chairman's and Woodie Flowers although I don't know why. Rookies cannot win Chairman's but NASA sponsored teams have a minimum Chairman's requirement that goes along with their sponsorship. And obviously only rookies can get Rookie All Star, Inspiration and highest rookie seed so a regional with just a few rookies slants the odds a bit. The reality is we would like to send everyone home with some hardware, you deserve it.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Al (and/or any one else with Judging experience) is it safe to assume that these awards are decided more or less independently from others. I.E. Winning chairman's or Woodie Flowers would not reduce your chances of winning a technical award.

It seems that it is much easier for rookies to win more than two awards, it is fairly common for a team to win Highest Rookie seed as well as one of Rookie All Star or Rookie Inspiration. If you have those two it is certainly possible to take one of the other awards, I know for a fact some regionals will not give one of the other regular judged awards (Quality, Innovation in control etc) to aa rookie that won Rookie all star, however they are certainly elligible for others like Woodie Flowers, Website, Safety, Deans list etc.

To brag a little bit 3280 won 3 awards twice in 2010, Rookie inspiration, Highest Rookie seed and Woodie Flowers at WPI, and Rookie Allstar, Highest Rookie seed, and Safety in Boston.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Great point by Al. Website, Safety, and Autodesk (if that still exists... I can't remember) are all judged separately. This is, of course in addition to the Regional Winner, Finalist, and Highest Rookie Seed that are determined by on-the-field performance. I've seen a team walk away once with 6 awards (including individual awards) where the judging panel at the regional gave them only one.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

James,
Some awards like Highest Rookie Seed are simply output by the scoring records and are not decided in judging. So a highest rookie seed can also receive one of the other judged rookie awards. Would it help to say that some awards are decided long before the competition is at an end?
Yes, Woodie and Chairman's (and the other predetermined awards) are independent of the technical awards. The judges for Woodie Flowers only look at the submitted essay, so to for Dean's List I believe. The judges for Chairman's are very busy with the Chairman's teams and looking over their submitted documentation and do not participate in the team judging. Their top Chairman's pick will not lose that position simply because other judges have decided to give them other awards as well.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

I've done a workshop for a couple of years on how judging works at the Regionals. Here is the ppt:
http://www.mdfirst.org/images/storie...udging_101.pdf

Lots of information here. This is meant to be a presentation so some of the slides may seems a little weird. It is intentional.
Also includes links to a call conducted by Global RCA judges, with advice given.

In general, judges will try not to give out 2 judged awards on the same day to the same team unless there are not good options, but as already noted this does not include performance-based or pre-judged awards.

My overall advice is: understand what the awards are given for (do some homework) and help the judges in the limited time you have with them understand why your team deserves to win this award.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

The best kind are those two-legged software trophies !!

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

?????

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Personally, I think rookie awards should only be awarded at a team's first regional competition. If a first year team does two regionals their first year, can they really be considered a "rookie" at their second regional? At their second regional they have as much experience as a second year team that participated in only one regional their first year. They are no longer "rookies" in their experience level and shouldn't be considered at the same level as a team that is competing in their very first regional.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Robomom,

thanks so much for posting your power point. It will help me in working with my team, especially new members and parents.

1 point and 1 question for anyone out there

1. We are 3 time RCA winners at the Bayou (thanks to all so much). We feel that the key to our repeats, is continuing to innovate while maintaining our current commitments. We continue to ask, how can we do more, how can we improve, what aren't we doing that we could be. And yes we are stretched but our students seem to always be up for more and that's what is all about. We also found the sessions at Championships given by past International winners to be very helpful. (if you are lucky enough to attend)

2. Having said that, can someone give me any insight into the judging for Engineering Inspiration? Some say it's runner up RCA but if you read what FIRST posts, it is not. Do the EI judges see the RCA write ups or is all the info gained by floor interviews?

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Wendy,

There are a lot of ways to go as a team. Figuring out what you want to do and how to get there. It's all fun.
What we did is here and here

EI - I don't like the RCA runner up answer. I've never totally figured it out but as best I can tell it goes to teams that have done a great job mentoring/teaching especially to FTC/FLL teams, but that is a broad generalization and I'm sure the mileage varies as you go around the country.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

topgun,
What about a team that learns so much from their first event that are near perfect at the second. Woodie and Chairman's (and off site judging) only can submit for one regional.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Not an issue. My point is that rookie awards should only be awarded to teams competing at their first regional competition. After your first regional competition you should no longer be considered for rookie awards, even if it is still your first year of competition.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Topgun,
I do not tell rookies they are no longer rookies until they have competed for their last time that season. That could be at their first and only event or at Champs.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Wendy, You are quite welcome.

RE: EI. Some people see it as a runner up to RCA because it offers a precious slot at CMP and the teams earning the EI award are often RCA material. But the criteria is different. I cannot answer what happens at every event. Unless the system has changed recently, it is supposed to be judged in the pits. But the RCA judges, although they are doing their own thing, also spend some time in the judges room. Whether they give input or not is up to the Judge Advisor.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

So even after being alive for 1 day, is a baby no longer a baby?

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

They were still rookies when they designed and built the robot. By your logic, they aren't rookies after their first match, right? That would be so difficult to manage and there would be no rookie award at the World Championship.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

ed

what an amazing team and fantastic accomplishments with a great website. wow, hope to meet you in st. louis

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Every time I read a winning Chairmans award submission, I go "Wow, those guys really deserve it". 9 FRC TEAMS IN ONE YEAR!?

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

The links to Kevin's post on the FIRSTWA site and Jenny's powerpoint are great and reflect both what I have observed as a mentor and as a judge.

When I mentored 1346 we had a business and communications sub team who were skilled in promoting our team and machine and armed with brochures on the robot, firm handshakes and friendly smiles. We made sure (as much as possible) that there were always two members from the communications team in the pit and that they always knew where to find the programming, build and drive team leaders on short notice (if they weren't already in the pit area). One would talk to the judges while the other would offer to round up our "technical experts" to answer detailed questions. It seemed to work pretty well. Where appropriate we would also have "props" to demonstrate a particular aspect of our design. Our first award (Creativity) cited our use of wood to build our robot's arm. We brought our prototype arm along with us, set it on blocks on the floor of our pit area, and invited the judges to stand on it... together.... and bounce up and down. They remembered our machine and... when they saw it do a few other unique things on the field, sent us home a very happy team!

The success with that first wooden arm led our team to another trait that I believe helped us to win awards... we built with wood. It wasn't so important that we were building with wood, but we were doing something different... and we were doing a nice job of it. Our use of wood was cited in almost all of our technical awards. I was amazed last year (my first as a judge) to meet some of the judges who had been doing it for a few years and have them remark, "Oh... you're from the team that always uses wood! We love your machines... they always stand out. The hockey sticks were great!" I knew we had a minor reputation with some of the other teams for this, but I had no idea that we actually had built up a reputation with the judges! If you've got something good that makes your team stand out... stick with it!

One thing I should add is to point out that judges have a pretty good set of ears and eyes at the competitions. The tech inspector, pit administrator or other volunteer you talk to on Thursday might just be wearing a blue shirt on Friday and Saturday. The referee that you talk to on Friday morning might just be having a meal with a judge later in the day. There is a very good chance that the judges will hear about something awesome your team has done even if there isn't a "blue shirt" around at the time you do it. All the volunteers like to talk about the great things that teams and students do at events... the judges can't help but overhear these positive stories.

Finally, I'll add credit where credit is due... we didn't figure all this out ourselves. We went and talked to teams that were winning lots of awards, we watched what they were doing and tried to model ourselves after them. My personal thanks are extended to 1241, 188, 1114, 488, and 360 amongst others for setting a great example for us... we never got to be quite as good as them, but we sure had a good time trying.

Jason

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

It was a poor attempt at humor.

Paraphrasing Dave Lavery...... The really important results are not those little pieces of plastic that they give out and the shiny banners that hang on the wall.

The real trophies are the students that are made better by their participation on a team.

Those students are our "two legged trophies".
.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Ok,
I get it now.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

I noticed that at the end of Jenny's linked "non-presentation" it said that starting in 2012, winners' written submissions would be posted on the USFIRST.org website. Is that happening? Is it for Chairman's winners or all three awards that required an essay? I believe that would be an awesome addition to the website!

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

Not this year.

Re: Awards and How they Are Chosen
 

It was announced on the FSM call, conducted by the National Judge Advisors, in Oct. 2011 http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...nce-recordings that starting in 2012, the winning RCA entries (not WFA or Dean's list) would be posted on the usfirst.org site within a week of earning the award. I waited a week and then two and then 3 and then made some inquiries. Not exactly sure what is going on, but I was told it wasn't going to happen this year.

I'm disappointed. Yes, I know that many teams make them available on their websites, but honestly I was looking forward to seeing them all in one place.