Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Based off the video of this single match, I have to say 254 and 971 look very good, but by no means untouchable (and not up to their ordinary standards, in my mind). This post may come across as somewhat negative, but chalk that up to the expectations I've come to have of these teams.

After watching this match, I was rather flabbergasted that the red alliance only scored 67 (a score higher than any at our first regional, GSR, I might point out)... Between the double balance, the strong auto, and all that teleop scoring I was expecting something around 80! Then I watched the video again (with some rewinding and fast-forwarding), and counted up the points as shown below... thankfully my total matched the official score, barring any penalties.

Hybrid: 23pts
- 254: 2 of 2(h) from key, 1 of 2(h) from bridge
- 971: 1 of 4(m), 2 balls gathered from partner

Teleop: 24pts (all scoring high)
- 254: 1 of 3, 1 of 3, 1 of 3, 2 of 2 (total: 5 of 11)
- 971 1 of 2, 2 of 3, 0 of 1 (total: 3 of 6)

Bridge: 20pts
- 971 and 766 balance

Even though I was seeing an overwhelming number of shots taken (due to both teams' astonishing driving and harvesting skills), both teams had unusually low scoring percentages, as compared to teams like 1114, 2054, 67, and 341 that 254 usually competes alongside. Given the earlier talk in this thread about 254 preferring to go without camera aim, I found this interesting. This year certainly places a higher value on shot accuracy compared to years like 2006 and 2009 where a large hopper could overcome a flaw in shooter accuracy...

These comparisons really ought to at least be taken with a grain of salt because 1) this was 254's first event, while the other teams I've mentioned have all had 3 full events so far, 2) I only witnessed one match, and 3) a few shots (particularly some of 254's) would've gone in had they not been bumped at an inopportune moment.

I hold both 254's and 971's robots (in the past and present) in the utmost regard, and am simply noting one prevalent flaw where none usually exist. In order for only one weakness to be noticeable, the team must be very strong...

Edit:
After watching the SF matches, it seems that 254 (and 971) are both substantially more accurate from the fender with only one or two missed shots. Both were shooting primarily from the fender in these matches due to less defense being played on them. It seems that in this case defense on these two teams when at the fender had a direct impact of about -15pts.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

I would tend to agree, but when left to play with their fender, I don't think anyone could score points faster. It's downright scary watching them systematically score points when unabated. However, we held them to 14 teleop points in one of the QF matches (not sure about the other) because of our defense forcing them to make key shots. If and when they start knocking in points from the key consistently and accurately, the only way to beat them is going to be hiding the ammo somehow.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Team 254 did have the highest scoring match of the SVR qualifying rounds (Q-83). Their alliance that included Team 3256 (WarriorBorgs) and Team 4086 (Team Tesla - an impressive rookie team from Twin Falls, Idaho) scored 80 points. It was definitely more challenging for teams to score in the elimination rounds during both Hybrid and Teleoperated modes. Especially during hybrid mode there were so many balls heading toward the same target at the same time, the balls often bounced off each other missing their targets.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

No offense taken. We are ecstatic to have come away with a win, but we don't think we played all that well either.

We had a lot of work to do on the robot on Thursday and got very little time on the field to tune autonomous/shooter values.

We also had a hard time with the brand new balls during elims.

We expect to perform much better in all aspects of our game at CVR this week.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Nathan has some astute observations. Unfortunately, that Finals match is actually one of alliance's our worst as far as shot accuracy (in both teleop and hybrid) and alliance coordination goes.

I can also vouch that 254's accuracy late in qualifying rounds was very VERY good, from fender and key, but they were unable to get it sufficiently re-tuned in eliminations for the new balls, IIRC. This affects 971 as well, however we have had a previous regional's worth of practice against fender defense, so it slowed us down us less.

Both teams are working on improving shot accuracy. I cannot speak for 254, but I know how hard they work to make their robots perform at the highest level, and I'm sure they will have an answer to the consistency problems for CVR and Championships.

If anyone has video of 254's last qualifying match, I highly recommend people watch it. It is spectacular.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

I wholeheartedly agree, that was a great match.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

It takes a lot of tuning to get these wheeled shooters to shoot accurately. Especially with the amount of ball variation that is out there....not to mention the field crew switching old balls for new ones whenever they feel like it.

We have been to 3 competitions and are just now getting our shooter near the accuracy that we were planning for when we designed it. We did not shoot very well at our first event either, it just so happened neither did anyone else.

I am sure with some dedicated tuning, 254 will have this awesome machine knocking down shots very soon.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Agreed it took Jared and our programming team a very long time to hit a "sweet spot" which could handle both new and old basketballs. Even with this tuning, you will still have a random undershot or overshot, once in a while.
We also found in Boston (the hard way) that the adjustment process also needs to take wheel wear into account. After 36 matches our wheel had degraded to the point where the COF and compression was not at its original specs.
That being said 254 is obviously the kind of team that is going to continuously and consistently improve right up through St. Louis. It is just a matter of time and "piano tuning". Good luck this weekend.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Yes, but remember that you're comparing 254 at their first event to 67, 341, 1114 & 2056 at their third events. I know I'm basically restating what Adam and Al have already said, but this game requires an insane amount of tweaking. We were pretty embarrassed by our shooting performance in Week 2 at GTR East; since that time we've been working non stop to get things perfect, and our shooting percentage stats reflect this. The Poofs are by far the best team in FIRST at in season adjustments. Look for their accuracy to hit a crescendo in St. Louis.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

I could not agree any more with what Karthik siad. In Orlando we had the same issue. Making the smallest changes made a world of difference. 254 will be firing on all cylinders next comp.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

I'm scared now. The question is: How much change can they do in 4 days? Usually, they have a few weeks between competitions. Now they have just about a day left.

Looks like we'll see soon!

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

What is there to be scared about? They already won a competition "not firing on all cylinders". No doubt in my mind that they will be much improved at CVR. Good luck keeping up

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

In Orlando we were 5-5 73 hp 50 bp 69 tp

In Lenape we were 10-2 175 hp 100 bp 264 tp

In Mount Olive we were 11-1 167hp 120 bp 300 tp

254 is going to make the changes it needs and i am sure you will see simular results. It's crazy what small things make you win and lose.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Watching 254's accuracy improve match by match on Fri & Sat at Silicon Valley was very inspiring. I can only imagine how deadly it will be at CVR with multiple days to work on it.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Something we noticed during our testing and then at our regionals is that alot of robots used shooters with curved hoods. We noticed that with curved hoods that the ball variances caused large variances in shooting distance. When we tested with a straight hood with no curve, we saw much better results, and every shot with any ball was consistent to about a foot. We knew with tuning we could get a curved hood to work, but we went with straight because we were able to tune it on bag day right before bagged, and have not changed the shooting code since then.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

254 works, at a minimum, as hard as anyone else in FIRST. I've seen them pull off in 4 days what some teams can't do in 4 months of competition season.


I'm looking forward to watching them on the webcast this weekend. Go Poofs!

-Brando

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

You know it's bad when we are critiquing a team that has already won a regional. Go Poofs!

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Can I get an encore?

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

How is your wiring so clean and invisible?

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

Clean is through experience. Invisible is because they run a lot through their frame. Not sure how much they did this year though.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

We didn't run too much wire through the frame this year. We mostly ran wire and pneumatic tubing through the frame for our shooter, intake, and conveyor.

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

What are these bumper fasteners called?

Re: Team 254 Presents: Skyfire
 

I think they're McMaster part #1889A37. We discarded the stock lip half though, since the geometry was sub-optimal, and found a sheet metal shop to make us the version with the 90° bend.

I can't speak for the pit crew, but I think there was general agreement that this bumper fastening system worked really well in terms of speed and robustness.