Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

For our team, there really wasn't much choice this year.
Last year, we had a student drive coach. He didn't really do much — he didn't direct the drivers, but instead just stood there watching the whole time. But he's excellent at machining, so we placed him as the 24/7 pit manager and machinist this year. Thing is, though, our team is small enough that we really don't have any students to spare. We have the two drivers, the machinist, the PR manager, the mascot, the videographer, the general manager (me), the safety captain (this job kinda fluctuates from various members, depending on who plans on being in the pits mostly), and a couple of scouts. That's it. And this year, none of the students wanted to be the drive coach. So basically, our only qualified candidate for drive coach was our mechanical mentor, who used to be a coach for his son's soccer team. Normally we would let the other students decide.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

I love these threads and some of the discussions that occur. At the same time, I think there is a possibility that some posters are subdued, intimidated, or silenced - which is a shame in healthy discussions.

What if we created 1 thread for the pros of having mentor coaches and 1 thread for the pros of having student coaches. It might be a way to shine a new light on a subject that seems to fall into the trap of going round and round.

We could include the cons but not in a negative or accusatory way. It is possible to have a con that is just a statement, not an accusation. I think...

Just a thought.

Jane

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

To start this post, during 2007-2009 I coached as a High School Student. This year, I'm a mentor, coaching for the same team.

Looking back on my years as a student coach, I'm not going to lie, I learned a lot from interacting with other teams and getting a true understanding of the "little things" one needs to account for in this competition from field experience. As an awkward high schooler, I even developed more social skills because I was forced to work with groups of people I've never met before and of varying ages.

I will not dispute the positives that a high schooler can learn from coaching, but there are also many negatives from the experience. If something goes wrong on the field, who's fault is it? The Coach. If your teams human player commits a penalty, who gets chewed out by other drive coaches? The Coach.

If your team lost a match by two points, and one of the mentors on your team comes up to you and says "you should have done this" even though the mentor didn't think of what you should have done until 5 minutes after the match, displaying classic signs of "monday morning quarterback" who gets blamed? The Coach.

As a high schooler, I wasn't ready for the pressure that the position held. Now this doesn't mean that every high schooler can't do it, that isn't what I'm saying. But I was coaching students of the same age as me, if the strategy didn't work, instead of the drivers blaming the coach, they blamed themselves. It was difficult for me to put the weight of the drive team on my shoulders because I was just another student.

As a mentor coaching now, there is a difference in age between my drivers and I that allows for a certain level of respect. There are other factors such as experience, number of sandwiches I've purchased for them, and having to show that I put in more hours than them to create the "first one in, last one out" effect. But, when we lose a match, I can teach these young students not to blame themselves and put the weight of the matches on someone like me. By taking the pressure off of their shoulders, and putting it on a seasoned coached like myself, if we lose a match, we can spend time watching the replay to see how to improve, hit the practice field to try new things, and move on rather than sticking in the past.

Looking back on it now, I wish someone could have taught me not to dwell on past matches and move on. It hindered me as a high school student, but now that I'm older, and have experienced other failures in life, I understand when to move on.

Although 1 high school student loses the ability to learn something from the competition, another 3 are taught an even more important lesson. That is why I coach as a mentor.

--

Every team works differently. :deadhorse:

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

3397 is student driven, with mentors and coaches only stepping in when we ask them to. We rotate the drive coach position to any student who wants to try it out, and it works fine for us. We try to engage everyone on the team, and our mentors (all 4 of them) mostly help with repairs and bumper changes between matches. I have nothing against the mentors on the field, and I think that every team should be run how the team wants it to be run, mentors coaching or building the robot. If the kids feel inspired and have fun, I do not see a problem with how other teams get things done . My team, we go out to have fun, and we find fun in having our drive coach rotated, so that every student who wants to can see what it is like behind the glass. If a team decides a mentor coach is providing a better experience for that team, I do not think there is a problem with it.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

I'm not going to comment on anyone else's setup, but here's where 2815 is coming from:

-Since day one, we've had adult coaches. In our four years, one was a USC graduate student, two were undergraduate students, and one was a professional mentor (yours truly). Each of our regional championships was won with a different coach behind the glass.
-Most of our mentors aren't that much older than the kids they mentor. I see them develop behind the glass almost as rapidly as the kids.
-I've seen some rather overbearing coaches. An adult mentor is usually better equipped to block them in my estimation. (A year of college hardens you up.)
-Despite the age part, our coaches usually have their acts together marginally better than the students. In an event where a few seconds' poor planning can result in a bypass (or worse), we view this as a good thing.
-It (generally) serves to reinforce the partnership between USC and Richland One.
-At no point have we said "We're -never- going to put in a student coach". We're open to it if the right situation came along...but we don't see it happening soon.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

This is definitely something that comes with maturity and some students certainly have it. After having worked with Will and team 1218's drive team, I would say that they have it.

With the basketball theme in Rebound Rumble this year and the quoted text above, UCLA basketball great Coach John Wooden comes to mind and this quote by him comes to mind. "A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment."

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

i just think it is interesting how many people said "go read the other threads" but then made a long post in this one ...

:)

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

GREAT point.

A looooooong time ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the robot controller was an abacus with a monkey at the helm, I was the drive coach for team 308. Back then, I used to always give the same speech to the drivers before the competition season began. Something like, "if anything goes wrong in the match, or if anyone doesn't like how the match was played, send them to me. I'll take all the blame and all of the heat for what went wrong. blah blah." I always believed in taking the heat off of the drive team - it seemed to help them relax.

With all of that in mind, do what makes your team work best.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

Thanks for this post, I'll try to be more intentional about doing this at CVR. Definitely seems like the right thing to do to take the burden off the (already stressed out) drive team.

I've had the pleasure of coaching the last two years on two separate teams. I think it's been a beneficial experience for all parties involved. I have a blast with the kids, get to keep things upbeat, meet with a lot of teams to talk strategy, and remind them constantly that it's only a game!

Talking strategy is super fun, especially when the coaches/strategists on the other teams in the alliance are students. You get to kinda mentor them too, by being a model of a good attitude and competent play-maker, and encouraging them to do the same!

I love coaching. I hope people don't resent me for it... :(

-Mike

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

Ike,
Going to IRI? Time to step up to bat buddy!

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

I was stuck in Yuma, AZ during the last IRI. Hopefully I will make it this year.

MARC also does a mentor match. I might see if I can get in on that one. I was Human Player in 2010 for a mentor match, and was absolutely horrible. I kept watching the robot as opposed to getting the balls out of the return slot.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

I remember those days. I was soo jealous of the Wildstang Monkey that understood sign language. It was pretty cool though to see a Rainbow Monkey that could sign "More Bananas Please".

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

Hey, be nice to Al, he could sign way more than just that. ;)

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

I can, I have, I will.

Re: Mentors as Drive Coaches?
 

Other than re-iterating what has been said in this thread, and adding my "do what works for your team" statement, I want to give some props to Will and 1218! We were on the their alliance in DC this past weekend, and he and his team are a great group to work with!

For our situation, our Drive Coach is a mentor, but had been our Driver for a number of years, and then became the Drive Coach when he was in college. I felt it was important to have someone who can understand what they are going through, mature enough to handle the pressure, is seen as a leader to the Drive Team, but can also handle any "blame" when something goes wrong. At the Chesapeake Regional, my driver made a "poorly choosen" mistake, that cost us the match. The look on his face after he realized what he had done showed he was crushed. I reviewed what the appropriate decision should have been and told him that we would get it the next time. In DC, another poorly choosen decision was made, again costing us a match, the only one we lost during qualifications, again we had another opportunity for a discussion on what the best decision would have been. In both occations, he was able to shake it off, because he knew he wasn't "in charge", the Drive Coach was, despite the fact that the student drivers make 90% of the decisions on the field. In both cases, I told him to just listen to the Drive Coach and to have fun. I know there are student Drive Coaches out there who can handle that pressure, and I know that Will on 1218 is one, but you are not going to find that on every team. We let the Drive Coach take the "blame" for issues, and give the credit for any success to the student drivers when we are successful. I don't want any of the students beating themselves up, any more then they already do, when we have issues. But again, that's how we do it, mileage may vary due to your driving conditions!