Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

The time and score were removed from the big screen with about a minute to go in the elimination matches at the Long Island SBPLI Regional.

I attended the Boston and NYC regionals and do not recall this practice.

To my knowledge, we were not informed of this change at any of the if many meetings we were required to attend.

I wonder what the fans and coaches of a major sport such as football, hockey or basketball would think if the score and time were removed from the field displays with two minutes to go.

Our team congratulates the red alliance on their regional win, but in the second match of the finals, we went to attempt a triple, but with out the time or score, we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I can understand your frustration to a degree, but you keep referring this happening as a "practice", but from what I've heard it sounds more like a mistake than an intentional happening. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

It was happening at the Colorado regional as well. a little tip: the time is shown on clocks on both sides of the field.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

The FMS console allows the operator to select between many different types of audience screens. Just video, video with score and timing overlayed (using chroma keying), final scores, alliance selection screens, tournament bracket, Rebound Rumble logo, scrolling sponsors, etc. On top of that there is often a secondary video switch somewhere in the line. The FMS operator has a lot to do; simply forgetting to put up the right display before each match is the most likely explanation.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

The same thing happened at the Troy District; and for every match if I remember correctly. I don't think it was a mistake if it happened multiple times at multiple events.

Personally I think that it was done to make the end of the game more tense and unpredictable. When the score was up on the board all I had to do was add the bridge points on to get a winner. Now I'm just guessing until they post the final scores.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

He wasn't talking about after the end of the game. He said it happened with one minuite left. Big difference! Are you saying that what happened at Troy was that the score screen was absent most of the time during the matches?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

SGRECO,
We happened to have been on that alliance and I too was frustrated by the removal of the score and time from the screen. We, meaning "I", didn't even realize that our coach was somewhat relying upon it to gauge his time to triple balance. The 30 sec. horn was not enough time for our alliance partner to leave the other side of the field and come to our side to be in the middle of the two of our robots.
The very first thing Sat. morning the three of our teams felt that we could triple balance and practiced it on the practice bridge. We did it twice in under 15 seconds each. We then decided that we would try to select each other and hold it for the finals if we ever made it. No other team pulled it off or tried it until the semifinals (at our regional)
Well, luck would come our way and the three of us were partnered and won the first 5 matches in the finals. We weren't relying upon the clock until then, however, as scoring was all that was necessary to win. For the triple we needed the clock and it was then that we realized that they were pulling the clock from the screen--I assume to heighten the excitement of the "unveiling" of the winning score.
No matter what happened on the score board, we were outscored by the other alliance two times in a row and they deserved to win--no excuses!!!!
They were scoring machines who out scored us. Kudos to them and we'll see them at the Nationals. :)

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

To clarify what was actually happening....the score and the sliding time bar at the bottom of the big screen was removed, intentionally, prior to the end of each match. It was there and then it was removed. I understand that the FMS operator has a lot to do, but this was not an act of omission. He had to add this to his actions for this to occur.
If it is happening at other regionals (it didn't at NYC), then I think there should be a standardized format announced so that teams could plan better.
Yes, there are timers on either side of the field, but the coach said that he never thought to look at that because he only glanced to the big screen occasionally when necessary.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

As a coach on the field, I do rely on the score being posted on the screen. At FiM Districts the screen is typically on one side of the field or the other, so if you are say the Blue Alliance you have to turn around to see it.

Only one time this season has the score not been displayed when I went to look at it, and that was a qualification match at the Northville District. I went to talk to the A/V guy and he just said it was a mistake for that match. I was not a huge deal, but as the OP said, it does play into how coaches direct alliances.

I typically use the timers in the corners of the field to see how much time is left. The only issue I have had with those are that in the beginning of the year, I kept looking at the right corner...instead of the left, since that was where the timer was last year. I kept wondering why there were 469 seconds left in the match, and it wasn't changing.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

At the North Star elims, it was removed with a few seconds left. It could have been done to decrease the cycle time by readying the final score or add drama by not showing the final score until the end, but I disagree with both of these explanations.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I've watched scores get removed mid-match. It definitely seems like it's meant to add excitement for the crowd, but its extraordinarily annoying for people relying on it on the field.
Say you want to decide how many robots you need to get on the bridge for the endgame. You get yourself ready, look up at the score and...... nothing.

I don't think they should do it anymore. Maybe take it down the second teleoperated period ends, so the crowd watching the match will still have the intensity if they miss it, but it's up the whole time players on the field need it.

Imagine you're watching a professional basketball game and suddenly the scoreboard turns off, how annoying would that be?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Count you blessings, Dan must have thought they only had 67 seconds left. ;)

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Our team ran into something a little similar at our Niles regional. I made a post here about some thing's that I think would have helped our situation, which would also have helped your's.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...the+sco re%3F

I'd really like to see either/both of the ideas from that post implemented, as I think it would be valuable for teams in exactly your situation. (For those avoiding the link, the ideas were putting a score differential display above the clock at the opposing inbounder station, and putting a score display on the driver station). My thinking is you shouldn't have to look up at the video feed to see the score anyway, that's just bad UI design :D.

I don't really know where to go with the idea's other than CD, so I'm just trying to find support for the idea and hoping someone at FIRST hears about it.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Playing against the juggernauts would be a nightmare :P

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Would hate to play with a rookie if that was the case 4000+ seconds = too long

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Couldn't this be considered a field fault and be case for a match replay?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Ahh, the infamous hunger game match. The last robot without a dead battery is the winner.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Well let me try and clarify this a bit.

There are no "smoking guns", Field Faults or conspiracy theories regarding the scoring and timing overlay being removed from the big screen.

For those that aren't aware conference calls for Emcees and Game announcers are held prior to the competition season and on the Monday evening folowing all competition weekends. removing the overlay from the screen during the last half of the matches in Eliminations only was recommended in order to heighten the excitement of the crowd. The feeling was that having the overlay on the screen all the time kind of put a damper on the results due to the great real time scoring that was put into use this year.

This is NOT a new concept and has been a regular occurrence in past years.

As far as other Regionals such as NYC I can only say that it appears they did not follow this format for whatever reason. I was a judge at the Rutgers MAR event and the overlay was removed during Eliminations there.

For teams going to Championships I'd bet dollars to donuts that the overlays will be removed during Eliminations on the Division fields and on Einstein as well.

As far as looking at the screen for time left in the match, as someone mentioned earlier the time is shown on the front of each player station. As a matter of fact on a humorous note: One of the Emcee's at the SBPLI Regional introduced "Team 15" for an early match. I explained to him that team 15 was so good that they were in EVERY match :p Then I told him what the 15 really meant..........

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I was not aware that this is doctrine. Seriously?

Surely ensuring that each alliance actually knows the score and can make the right strategic decisions would make for more "excitement of the crowd" than seeing alliances unsure about when to go balance, and how many robots to try for.

I am sorry that the great real-time scoring puts a damper on things, but that's ridiculous.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

They did not remove the overlay at either Regional our team attended, and I do have to agree that removing it definitely would have made some of the matches even more exciting! It's pretty easy to do the bridge balance math in your head!

It will make the decision to triple balance riskier...not knowing if you only needed to do a double to win ~ or go for a triple and risk getting nothing and losing. Interesting.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I feel like there should be a GDC rather than 'committee of MCs and Announcers' ruling on something that affects the game as much as this does. I would ask the question on Q&A, but I can't seem to think of what section it should be in, and there is no 'other' option.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Good point. It would be great to get this cleared up before Championships. Sounds like it's a fairly ambiguous direction for the fields. You could have some division fields following this practice and others not at Championships?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

There is NO committee!! We are all just volunteers that are asked to follow certain guidlines set forth by FIRST personnel. This is NOT a new concept and has been happening for many years.

Please don't think that we all just do what we want. Nothing could be further from the truth!

FIRST goes to great lengths to try and make all the Regional competitions have the same 'feel' regardless of which event you attend.

Removing the screen overlay has occurred as long as I can remember since I began in FIRST 13 years ago.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I could not agree more! To me, even in matches we are not playing in, it is way more exciting to know EXACTLY what is going on during the match that I am watching. This includes seeing the score and knowing that the alliances are or are not executing an intelligent strategy that could win them a match.

If I am watching a match without a score, then how do I know what the teams on the field should be doing, other than scoring lots and lots of points and balancing as many robots as possible. Seems pretty boring to me....:confused:

Whats the point of having real time scoring in the first place then?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Maybe this happens each year at Long Island? I haven't seen it happen at one of our events yet.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

This has not happened at the vast majority of events that I have attended or watched online since 2001-2002.

I have many vivid memories of looking to the scoreboard as the matches were ending over these years. Just to be sure I'm not crazy, I checked, and most of the archived match video of eliminations from these years (on The Blue Alliance or YouTube) preserves the real time scoring display throughout the match. For the most part these videos were scraped directly from the audience feed or webcast feed, meaning that if the displays are in those videos, they were also shown at the events.

See:
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2010on_qf1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2009new_sf1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2008pa_f1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2007nj_f1m1
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006il_f1m2
And so on.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Thirding the "I haven't seen it"--multiple years at West Coast events. This year is the first time I've seen it--at maybe a couple of webcasts.

I think it adds to the excitement to know that if that triple balance holds up, it's a win, but if one robot goes sprawling, it's over for that alliance. Adds suspense in a way that not knowing the score can never, ever do. (It also adds pressure on the drive coaches... but that's part of their job.)

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

One of the most exciting finishes I have seen this season was a qualification match at Davis featured one alliance down by 12 going for a double balance. They were struggling to get the double balance and it didn't look like they were going to make it (and the third team was cooping, so they couldn't score). Then a human player made a full court 3 point shot. A coach realized they were only down by 9, had one team get of the bridge, and the single balance went up with a few seconds left, and they won by 1. (I don't remember the teams.)

I really hate to see when it becomes impossible for good heads up, strategic play like this to be used. I feel like this sort of change makes situational play much more difficult, and removes strategy from the game.



Edit: and I have never seen this no-scoreboard thing implemented ever at any event I can remember, on webcast or in person.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Thanks for the links Jared341. good information.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I have been a mentor for 12 years and I have NEVER seen a screen where the time and score were removed.

Like someone else said. what if during an NBA basketball game the score was removed during the last one minute of play? The game would probably be stopped till it was fixed.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I don't like the idea of not having the time/score display visible for the entire match one bit. The timers above the drivers' stations are useless since they blend in with the team number displays. Also, until FIRST can find a way to show all of the action on the field reliably and without compromising the ease of viewing (not showing closeups of RSLs for a quarter of the match would be a start) the scores are the only way to get an idea of what is happening on the field when the camera is facing the wrong direction. Some of the webcast footage and archived videos show about 5% of the action, The other 95% must be either inferred from the score, or described by the MC. That means if you take down the scores and a lot is happening on the field, as is often the case in elims, the webcast audience is left in the dark and incredibly bored (since MCs can't see and describe everything).

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I hadn't noticed this practice until 2012--as a coach my memories are similar to Jared's--but I have to say I'm pretty put-off. Yes, I personally dislike it. But much more importantly, the practice literally contradicts information provided at several driver's meetings this season. It's even alluded to in the official video to the extent that I would expect a clarification at all events executing this policy, regardless. (I do believe all the referees and other volunteers were acting in good faith, simply without realizing this contradiction.)

Whether or not this has been a common practice in prior years, the changes in real-time scoring this year should have and still do warrant a much more official decision. To think that it was encouraged because of the real-time scoring is just unbelievable--even more so than the practice itself.

And in the NBA, there's only one basketball! :P Try real-time coaching while keeping track of 8 hoops with 18 balls in circulation.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I wish the web casts showed the angle shown here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...F&feature=plcp (at least for this year's game.) Ideally, there would be two webcast feeds, one from each end, so you could run both or pick one.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Well I have to apologize.

I came home from work and looked over my notes from the conference calls and they referred to delaying in putting the final scores up on the screen after the match. That's what I get for posting while I should have been working. :o

Sorry.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I'm definitely not a fan of the scores being concealed. Especially not all of a sudden, after the teams have begun to rely upon them. And especially not after FIRST implied that real-time scoring would be present during matches (though I suppose, strictly speaking, they never guaranteed the scores would be visible).

I'm surprised nobody tried to have the head referee declare a field fault. (They might not have succeeded, but at least it would have brought the issue to the forefront.)

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6q1...eature=channel

This video is of the 2nd Final Match at SPBLI, you can see the ticker still shown all the way up until the 30 second mark, and at that point it appears they already decided to attempt their triple balance and failed and instead of going back and scoring they decide to just attempt it once again...

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

At Troy during the qualification matches, the scores stayed up the entire time. They were even up while I was punching in the bridge results, so that the actual final score appeared even before the Whoosh! sound. I thought that was a little weird at first, but got used to the idea.

At some time on Saturday, I don't remember if it was morning or afternoon, I noticed that the scores were removed in the last final seconds of the match - maybe 5 seconds, certainly no more than 10. That gave a little more suspense to announcing the final score, but still allowed teams and audience to see the score throughout the match.

I don't know who made the call to show or not show the score.

It was noted several places that real-time scoring was the reason for having the automatic ball counters and the ref foul pads. Turning the score off defeats that purpose.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Dropping the scores from the big screen at the end of the match, especially before the last 10 seconds seems like it would hurt the decision making on the field much more than it would enhance the suspense for the audience.

1st, the live audience has a much larger opportunity to view the entire field and keep track of the score in their head than does a drive coach. It seems dumb for the stands to know more about the score than the teams on the field.

2nd, when the score goes away the audience generally notices immediately and knows the most recent score. The drive team may not notice right away, but in the moment one of them decides to check it can be a huge surprise to not see it there.

3rd, Last years endgame everyone sent their minibot up the pole as fast as possible regardless of the score. There wasn't a decision to make. This year triple balancing is a risk, and if a double balance is enough to preserve the win teams should be allowed to make that decision with the best information available.

4th, is the web audience supposed to get into the competition or just be impressed with robots moving around. If the former, they need the score as much as anyone. Last year I loved the MSC televised broadcast. I wonder if that tv production crew would agree with this score pulling shenanigans for audience suspense.

Probably saying all the same things everyone else is here, just wanted to add my Amen to the choir.

PS. I can live with it in the last 5 seconds. Usually all the major decisions for the drive team have been made by then. Of course in many high end elimination matches everyone is already on a bridge by then and pulling the scores serves no purpose.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Personally from my time as announcing, I work it out with the scorekeepers to take the score down immediately after the buzzer sounds. That way it doesn't interfere with any match play, but still gives us a bit of excitement before the big reveal. We also only do this for the semi-finals and final rounds.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I like this method best. Drive teams know the score, and the reveal is really about finding out if all balances are legit. Adds a bit of suspense, makes it clear what the final score is, and doesn't change the game.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I can deal with not having the score for the last 5 seconds, but can they at least keep the time?

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I think this is a case of trying to drag tradition into this year's game. Yes, in the past, the score wasn't official until the robots stopped moving, all the points were counted, and the penalties were subtracted. Revealing the score was a big deal.

But since we're playing basketball this year, let's play it like basketball. When the timer hits zero, and the hail-mary shot hits the floor, the crowd erupts. It's over. One team wins. In basketball, they don't stop for twenty seconds, make everyone sit down and be quiet, and try to introduce some artificial suspense before unveiling the score. When the buzzer goes off, everyone knows who won. In basketball, the suspense doesn't occur after the game, it peaks during the intense hard-fought plays as the clock winds down. Rebound Rumble is the same.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

This is a good argument for having a score display on the field, similar to the way time is displayed.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

But that would just blend into the team number displays as well, They need a way to make the timer more obvious, like arrows or a contrasting border.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

The timers have a strip of 2" white Gaffer's tape across the top, the team number displays do not.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Wow, I've been in the driver's box for 6 years and never noticed that. Then again, I've also never confused it with Team 15, so maybe I just never noticed that I noticed it. I do see it in the photos now. (though it seems to be on the bottom?)

I guess if we were looking for a contrast, I'd be thinking something more along the lines of an LED light strip.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

You're right, its on the bottom. No room for it at the top. Not saying that I noticed when I used to drive either... I only know the difference in the team/clock displays because I work field setup.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Hi to original poster and others that are angry with this removal of score.

As an excoach I understand the importance of real time scoring. At Northstar we pulled the scores in the last 5 seconds to keep excitement up in the audience while not affecting strategy of teams. I think it was effective to a degree but like someone said earlier, I think it really doesn't matter because most of the time the robots were balanced with 20+ seconds left in the match. Plus Wildstang put on one heck of a show. I think at champs the scoring will be heavily regulated and most likely taken off as the buzzer sounds.

I agree with the OP, pulling the scores off for over a minute is the worst idea anyone could make. It disrupts the game play, and makes it hard for GA's to call play by play and update scores/time easily. On top of all that it makes it impossible to form a onthefly strategy to win the game. Next year (if one of my fellow GA's don't beat me to it) during the conference calls for whatever game is being played ill make sure to mention this straight off the bat to clear up the confusion and post my findings on Chief Delphi.


TL'DR: Took scores off in the last 5 seconds off North Star for excitement, Will post findings on score removal from the head of GA.

EDIT: Just emailed the head GA

Thank you
Nate
Coach/EE/ME- KING TeC (2007-2008)
Lake Superior GA (2012-Present)
North Star GA (2011-Present)

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

FIRST is changing the world.... I'm sure they could solve this challenge.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

It might actually blend in less if u had 3 displays at one location instead of 1.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

As per the operator of team 3137, the clock across the field was stuck at 15 seconds during the match.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

The timer isn't static like the numbers... how does that confuse people?

I know that if I lost score during a match, I would probably go insane. Lots of pressure on the field, and I consider the scoreboard to be my other pair of eyes. How is losing score not considered an FMS fault requiring a match reset?

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

My interpretation as a scorekeeper is that the GDC intended to have real-time scoring. Thus this is the way the scoring system was designed.

This year's game is basketball. At a "human" basketball game, you know what the score is at all times. I believe that this is also the intent of Rebound Rumble.

The "match result" screen is really a redundant holdover from the games where scores and penalties had to be added manually after the end of the match. You still get the crowd "pop" when the screen goes up, but the results are already known by then.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Visibility is the main concern here. Not visibility to the drive teams looking at it, but field visibility from whoever has to stand behind it. The field timers are normally positioned in the human player station. Should the human player(s) have to move/lean to see around a display dangling right in an average height student's line of sight?

The current team number and timer displays have been around for a while. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

3 ways to fix that issue:
1: make em smaller
2: bigger human player station
3: If game desine allows, put a "floating" box above the feild

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

As I suggested earlier, put the score on the driver station, and have it published by the field management system.

I hadn't thought about the effect on the human player of adding another display for the score by the clock, but I'm sure this could be mitigated by creative positioning. It would definately make the clock/score displays stand out from team numbers better when there are two displays there.

Either way, the use of the big screen to get the score is really not ideal anyway, because no venue is the same. Putting it with the clock as part of the field and/or on the DS would give each venue more flexibility with their big-screen placement.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I think there might be room to just move it over (depending on the divisions of the alliance station). That might minimize the mounting issues and number of new components. Maybe I'm older than I think I am, but smaller (especially 1/2 size) and I'd start to have problems reading it.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Also as a note, you would really only need one extra display next-to/below the clock which tells the team how many points they are ahead/behind by (ex +10 or -12), much quicker to read that way.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Response from FIRST.

"Removal of Time/Score bar during match play has never been the recommended procedure at an FRC event.

The policy: Time/Score bar should not be removed until the match is over. Period. Removal is not an acceptable practice at any FIRST Regional or District event.

During Qualification Matches the Time/Score bar can stay projected and segue directly into Official Score posting, since the real-time scoring has proven to work well and is quick and efficient.

During Elimination Matches, the Time/Score bar can be removed after the match is over, to allow for Head Ref verification and to build anticipation/excitement. However, as soon as the score has been verified by the Head Ref and committed by the scorer, the Official Score should be posted as quickly as possible and in tandem with the Game Announcer who will simultaneously announce the score. It is not OK to delay Official Score posting. We want to post the score as soon as it is official."

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

NATE

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I think the most important thing about the situation is to make sure everyone knows the rules, and that they are consistent across all events and all matches in each event. If the intent of the real-time scoring was to help the drive teams make informed decisions during the match, then the scores should stay up for the whole match. If it was intended to make the matches more exciting and easier to watch for the spectators, then taking the score back down sends mixed signals and looks like an accident, which would only serve to irritate viewers.

Also, what if the time box was changed to green and the scores were in red and blue above it, to help them all stand out better.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Im the operator from 3137, and I was watching the time throughout the day, and the timer worked fine, then during the 2nd match of the finals, the timer across from me by the baskets said 15 seconds for the entire match. Then with about 70 seconds left, the score and time just dissapeared from the big screen.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I would consider the failure of the clock to display the correct time a field fault and sufficient reason to sound the foghorn.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

::rtm:: Ive watched some videos, i see that the score and time were on the big screen untill 45 seconds before the end of the game, still too early to take it down, my mistake on that part, but there was still no timer change on the timer across from me, or, from what i could tell from a video that a team member took, any change on the timer on my side.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Thank you for the congratulatory gesture, you and your alliance were a very challenging opponent to play with. With that being said, this is a very alarming action at a regional, and first should look into it. Whether it would have changed the course of the match or not is debatable, it was still a fine performance from the the opposite alliance. As I have said before, team 329, 353, and 3137 were fantastic opponents at SBPLI.

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

There was a qualification match on Newton where the score display went down while we were in it. We requested a replay from the head ref, and were told that

"the display is not part of the arena and thus a failure of the screen does not constitute an arena fault"

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

I saw this happen several times on Newton and once on Curie among the matches that I watched. I think a policy change is needed. In games where they have a true real time scoring setup, there MUST be a way for teams to see the current match scores in order to properly play the game. If FIRST is not providing a score indicator like the timer on the alliance wall, then they need to have some sort of policy regarding the official screen having a score. All teams rely on this during the match, and it does affect the outcome.

I would suggest getting in touch with FIRST HQ/Bill Miller about this, not in terms of an "Our referee shafted us blah blah blah" (because he was correct, it isn't considered part of the official arena currently*), but in terms of expressing to the GDC that future games with real time scoring need to take that into account.


*The manual defines "scorekeeping equipment" as part of the arena, so the argument COULD be made that the score display is part of that, but I don't believe that's what they mean

Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches
 

Also if I remember correctly, the timer was removed in the last 30 seconds of the match during our finals with the OP's alliance.