Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

I believe they generally wait until all the teams are confirmed, then line them up numerically and count off 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4 to make the divisions (which is why SPAM (team 180) was never in the same division as Swampthing (team 179)).

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

That would've been last Wednesday or Thursday (2 weeks before)

My money is on Thursday afternoon.

-Brando

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

I didn't keep track of the team numbers, however, it's not that hard to get the data yourself. Just sort the championship team list by location to get the California teams, and click on the team number to get the info page that includes awards

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

This guy explains our situation quite well.

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

It looks like divisions were posted on a Friday last year, but they also had an extra week before Championships.

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

I'm pretty sure they dismissed this method a few years ago. They now use other algorithms to derive the division breakdowns.

Cass

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

Source or anything?

Just the other day my mentor told me they do the 1-2-3-4 method.

Then again, his senior year in FIRST was 2006.....

If someone else could shed light on this that would be awesome!

-Duke

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

While I would love it if they still used this method, because we could then see division immediately without them being released, they have switched to other methods.

Last year it was goofy and instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, it went like 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 and so on (that's not what it was I'm just giving an example). Because my team was in the same division as the team in line next to us, if that makes any sense.

Cass

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

Yeah, that makes sense.

Is there any reason why FIRST doesn't randomize or at least pseudo-randomize it? Because i find it kind of lame that Team x most likely will not be in the same division as Team X + 1.

The only reason i see avoiding true randomness is because you could have a ton of rookies in one division, and vice versa.

The most logical solution to me seems to be something like this:
Take these 16 teams (random teams that came to mind):
1
33
67
71
111
254
461
573
1024
1501
2056
2337
3098
3138
3478
4001

---------
Take clusters of 4, from least to greatest:
Cluster A
1
33
67
71

Cluster B
111
254
461
573

Cluster C
1024
1501
2056
2337

Cluster D
3098
3138
3478
4001

----------
Now, randomize the order in each cluster:

Randomized Cluster A
67
33
71
1

Randomized Cluster B
461
111
254
573

Randomized Cluster C
1501
2056
2337
1024

Randomized Cluster D
3478
4001
3098
3138

----------
Now apply the 1-2-3-4

Division A
67
461
1501
3478

Division B
33
111
2056
4001

Division C
71
254
2337
3098

Division D
1
573
1024
3138
-----------

Now, you can't really compare the skill levels of the divisions to like/dislike this method, because i just picked random teams that came to mind. However I think you get the idea.

Thoughts?

-Duke

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

They randomize it. I'm pretty sure the past couple years nobody has been able to figure out the algorithm they used to determine which teams are in which division.

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

A simple algorithm would be to pick 4, randomly permute the order, assign to divisions, pick next four ...

No pattern would emerge, and that's pretty much what I think we see. The days of 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4... are over. :)

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

Oh, man. Four teams in and I'm already concerned about playing on this division! Can't we have another? :ahh:

In all seriousness:

I personally love the idea. This would allow an opportunity for the true "best of the best" to qualify, and still provide any other team who wishes to compete and attend that opportunity. I've heard the idea bandied about before, though you put it a bit more tactfully than most (I'm not sure how many times I've heard it called a "loser's bracket" :ahh: ). It's a sensitive issue, to be sure, but I just don't believe the system can support it.

In St. Louis, I believe, we have a venue that would work more readily with this concept; still, the infrastructure to support that many teams just isn't there. The dome could support six fields, surely, as well as the number of spectators for so many teams, but, honestly, the issues would begin to pile up in organization of the pits. There's simply not enough room. As such, we'll have to deal with the system as is, for the time being.

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

I'm not sure how they did the sorting last year at championship, but it couldn't have been 1234, because we (team 930) were in the same division as 931 and 932

Re: Best Robots Not At Championship, 2012 Edition
 

hey just a heads up, team 2377, and 836 are goin to st Louis