Divisions 2012
 

https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index....2012&event=cmp

EDIT: Looks like they are being added, so some are blank still.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Is this the fastest ever posting of divisions?

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Thank Pat Fairbank.. :cool:

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Re: Divisions 2012
 

With division posting complete, the Michigan State Champs are split up:

67 - Archimedes
469 - Newton
830 - Curie

Looks like 67 and 469 won't play together again until the post-season.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Simbots and OP in the same district? Canada wins. :P


EDIT: Someone informed it wasn't obvious I was being light-hearted. Sorry, my humor doesn't convey well over text. Note added smiley. :)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Looks like some great potential matchups, pairings, and Finals in all divisions. Awesome.

Only if one or the other seed very high...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

The PNW got split pretty evenly, and looks to all be in some pretty good divisions.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Tell that to 67...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Might have a small problem of triple balancing with eachother, plus they have to get through 67.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

And 2415, and 359, and 1218, and ....

Re: Divisions 2012
 

The two are just crazy good and work well together. It'll be interesting to see Archimedes and Newton shake out.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

67 is in their division. I doubt they will give up #1 seed easily.

Will be glad to see our competitors on the Curie field. 233, 254, 341, 359, 987, 1477, and 1986 look like a powerful lineup of teams that I can remember.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

My quick look provides...
Arch:
67 234 359 973 1114 1218 1676 2056
Curie:
51 233 254 341 694 971 987 1477 1986 3089
Galieo:
16 25 33 48 125 148 399 772 1538 1718 1918 2054 2337 3322
Newton:
11 45 111 118 330 340 469 548 610 1023 1717 1983 2122

Re: Divisions 2012
 

At least Galileo doesn't look as stacked as last year...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Archimedes looks the most reputable. I don't know about the best though...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Divisions sorted by OPR from Ed Law's database.


Arch Curie Galileo Newton
Team OPR Team OPR Team OPR Team OPR
67 42.0 987 39.7 25 34.0 469 47.2
1114 39.0 341 38.6 180 33.5 1717 44.0
359 37.1 624 35.1 16 31.6 548 37.3
2056 35.3 3098 32.3 2169 30.1 1983 35.7
1218 32.3 971 29.8 33 29.5 330 33.4
973 29.3 1507 29.8 2054 27.8 2122 30.6
2826 29.0 2474 25.9 103 26.3 842 30.5
2590 27.7 1986 25.8 148 25.5 111 28.8
1676 27.4 51 24.8 1323 25.4 1629 27.7
195 27.0 233 24.7 48 24.1 1023 27.2
1796 26.2 836 24.2 399 23.9 488 26.3
2996 25.5 254 24.2 801 23.8 1540 26.1
2415 24.8 3205 23.9 2337 23.0 1662 24.6
245 24.8 1477 23.1 1538 22.9 340 24.6
3968 24.4 1985 22.7 8 22.7 175 24.4
1311 24.1 525 22.6 573 22.6 3018 24.4
75 23.6 1678 20.4 2928 22.3 118 24.2
2046 23.4 1741 20.4 1918 22.0 2067 24.0
716 23.0 78 20.2 1732 21.4 610 23.7
126 21.6 3288 19.9 772 20.8 365 23.3
272 20.8 2960 19.7 358 20.7 4294 22.0
2614 20.4 3528 19.3 1714 20.1 2834 20.9
1868 20.0 694 19.1 2016 19.5 1635 20.0
1592 19.4 58 18.6 1208 19.2 107 20.0
1902 18.9 1511 18.4 1574 19.0 68 19.3
1756 17.9 3970 18.4 1718 18.8 79 19.3
1816 17.8 3929 17.5 3322 18.5 3930 19.2
4334 17.4 830 17.3 868 18.0 3357 18.8
2898 16.9 1828 17.2 125 18.0 181 18.8
369 16.7 1319 17.2 815 17.8 2936 18.0
1403 16.6 702 16.7 2377 17.5 11 17.9
3476 16.1 27 16.2 527 17.3 639 17.8
2949 15.5 4069 15.8 744 17.3 3245 17.3
781 15.1 2180 15.8 1671 17.2 329 17.1
3997 14.6 3940 14.6 1350 17.2 3630 16.9
4256 14.0 1690 13.5 2220 17.0 222 16.8
1261 14.0 1391 13.0 2439 16.8 2471 16.8
2557 14.0 1764 12.8 3196 16.3 1519 16.7
3947 13.9 1912 12.8 237 15.4 816 16.6
839 13.8 244 12.7 2486 15.4 115 16.5
2512 13.6 1501 12.5 263 15.2 1241 16.0
1736 13.4 2522 12.4 342 15.0 3310 15.9
1504 13.0 461 12.4 533 14.0 2062 15.3
3008 12.9 503 12.3 1108 13.9 191 15.2
587 12.8 2881 12.0 3103 13.8 3230 15.0
247 12.7 537 11.9 2090 13.7 2468 14.9
1987 12.5 2626 11.9 2642 13.6 2640 13.3
1647 11.7 3419 11.1 269 13.3 4089 13.1
2022 11.5 3965 10.8 231 13.2 4055 12.8
128 10.1 116 10.6 1747 11.4 555 11.6
100 10.0 1885 10.2 3574 11.3 714 11.1
2638 9.9 1683 10.2 4159 10.8 4086 11.1
2603 9.8 4161 10.1 4083 10.4 1640 10.6
4001 9.7 3880 10.0 1305 10.3 840 10.5
3747 9.2 604 9.9 1011 10.1 360 10.3
3481 8.7 1143 9.7 1038 9.9 271 10.1
1642 8.5 1266 9.7 4057 9.9 3990 10.1
1458 8.4 192 9.7 69 9.5 2194 9.8
4143 8.3 3951 9.5 384 9.2 1622 9.7
1306 8.3 279 9.5 4146 9.2 2705 9.4
20 8.0 85 9.5 2341 8.2 1772 9.4
3456 7.8 706 9.4 1425 8.0 435 9.1
234 7.8 207 8.9 1515 7.6 4183 8.8
1014 7.6 2164 8.8 4099 7.5 1219 8.5
3335 7.4 2591 8.7 3931 7.3 4122 8.4
2974 7.2 2914 8.1 492 6.9 3937 8.3
1 7.1 3936 7.9 766 6.4 1209 8.2
4356 7.1 288 7.9 1583 6.3 3504 8.2
3015 6.6 4265 7.4 870 5.8 86 8.1
190 6.4 2130 7.1 3784 5.7 3627 7.7
2403 6.3 2102 7.0 3189 5.3 1937 7.5
236 6.2 4226 6.8 1831 5.1 375 7.5
2815 5.6 1817 6.7 168 5.1 45 7.4
1875 5.6 3711 6.6 4031 4.9 41 6.9
692 4.9 433 6.2 1262 4.9 1506 6.9
1710 4.8 4269 6.0 4028 4.8 1111 6.5
144 4.7 3950 5.8 4394 4.5 378 6.2
2085 4.5 3847 5.2 771 4.4 4320 6.2
4403 4.4 597 5.2 3453 4.3 2200 5.8
2410 4.4 120 5.1 296 4.1 4021 5.7
4300 4.2 415 5.1 3259 3.8 3255 5.6
3410 4.1 293 4.6 4353 3.3 3566 5.5
3158 4.1 932 4.4 1212 3.1 2460 5.3
1058 3.8 571 4.4 3173 2.8 1126 5.0
1018 3.4 2844 4.3 568 2.4 1329 4.9
4218 2.9 4253 4.1 3142 2.4 4043 4.6
3081 2.8 564 4.1 4090 2.4 3083 4.4
2648 2.7 3807 3.8 4372 1.9 4188 3.9
246 2.6 3132 3.4 3981 1.7 4228 3.8
3999 2.2 1649 3.3 2339 1.6 3176 3.1
956 2.0 4130 3.0 2010 1.4 2574 2.9
2809 1.9 1778 2.9 281 1.2 457 1.7
2395 1.7 2500 2.2 585 1.1 2517 1.3
4206 1.5 4203 2.0 3530 0.1 4379 1.2
4082 0.4 3115 1.9 2158 -0.7 2059 1.2
3585 -0.5 178 0.5 151 -0.9 2902 0.8
3128 -1.4 3860 -1.0 2704 -1.0 611 -0.1
3927 -2.7 1033 -2.3 4013 -1.1 3512 -1.1
3634 -4.0 2757 -3.2 3925 -1.2 4262 -1.9
3941 -3.3 1382 -2.8

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Oh my god giant wall of jumbled numbers!

Cool trend though, I didn't realize we were that high up there.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

And 2826. And 1592. And 1218. And....

That will be a fun division.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Any chance you can post that in a format I can work with in excel?

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Sure - the columns actually look correct in edit mode, but the tabs don't work in display mode

Re: Divisions 2012
 

For Excel 2007:

• Copy data
• Paste into Excel
• Data tab > Text to Column button
• Select Delimited > Click Next
• Select Space > Click Next
• Click Finish
• Enjoy!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

As did the MAR Champions:

25 - Galileo
341 - Curie
1640 - Newton

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Thanks, I forgot how to use excel for a bit there. I got it to work just before your post.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

if anyone else would like it:

http://www.2shared.com/file/cQGkZxN8/opr.html

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Use the [code] tags.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Here are some interesting plots I put together really quickly. The first one is of all the teams going to St. Louis, the second is the top 50 from each division.

Newton appears to be the strongest overall division...

Data is directly from Ed Law, as posted above.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Based on average OPR.
Looks like Newton wins for OPR

Still definitely looking forward to Archimedes. (Might have something to do with competing in it)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I don't have a bunch of data of my own, but I would defintiely agree with you there. Newton will definitely put up a great show (and 1126 is lucky enough to be a part of such a great division, especially with some of our local friends).

A 469-1717 combo could be deadly, although there are many more that would prove frightening. I can't really say anything bad about any of the divisions, it is Championships after all. Everyone is playing at such a high level and there are so many great teams (398 so far!)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

If the #1, #2 and #24 from each division pair up the OPR's added together are:
Arch Curie Gal Newton
100.4 96.9 86.7 111.2

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Newton looks like the "best division" overall, but the CMP winner will probably bubble out of Archimedes.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Now with code tags...

Galileo looks fun. Can't wait.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

From just the look at who's in which division, this is the most balanced CMP I have witnessed in a long time. If the superstars can't lock up the #1 seeds, expect a lot of parody.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

In my opinion, Newton is the division to beat.

111 and 118 bring a lot of competition and Einstein experience. These teams have been through the trials before. They'll be very anxious to make it back, especially with Wildstang looking to defend their championship. 111 is a three time world champion (03,09,11), tying them with HOT for the second most wins. 111 has built another dangerous machine this year, with astounding accuracy. As impressive as ever, 111 looks to add their names to the short list of back-to-back world champions. 118 has had some of the most progression out of all teams this year. Their pre-season video has people clamoring, but their performance at Alamo and Connecticut, although very impressive, left much to be desired. At Lone Star, 118 was noticeably more dominant, with better hybrid and shooting than we'd seen from them before. With a win to cap off their regional reason, will 118, one of Texas' proud and most legendary teams, be able to continue to heat up the field even more? Endeavor will definitely live up to it's legendary name.

45 and 191 are two of the original teams. Both teams experienced some great success this season, and though 191 hasn't been able to grab the gold on Einstein in the past, they've seen it all in 21 years. After being the first pick at Finger Lakes and winning it all, they have an idea of what they'll have to do to be a competitive force on Newton. 45, a former world champion, will also bring the heat on Newton. They won at Queen City, they'll look to carry that success over at champs. If the X-Cats and TechnoKats can pick their shots carefully, they will both be forces to reckon with.

365 and 1640 were huge in the MAR District. MOE has built a great machine, and if they can improve on where they were at MAR Champs, they'll turn some heads. 1640 has had a lot of opportunities to learn this season: Twice have they teams with 341. Once to win a district event, once to win the whole MAR Championship. 1640 isn't the strongest robot around on their own, but they have had a lot of experience winning this season, and even without Daisy at their backs, they'll be able to carry that in to Newton.

548 and 469 competed against each other in the finals at MSC. That alone gives these teams huge credentials. 548 is being regarded as one of the best fender bots in the world right now, but their accuracy from the key can't be questioned either. Whether it's up close or from afar, 548 can put balls in baskets very well. 469 has had an amazing season so far, racking up wins at Detroit, Troy and Waterford, and capping it all off with state championship. At MSC, 469 became the only team whose Teleop Points exceeded 400, and their shooting reflects it. 469 just missed Einstein last year, after were Championship finalists in 2010. 469 knows how to win. They can do it. And with the right partners, they may just succeed.

On the topic of Michigan, 1023 had a great few days at MSC. Winners at Detroit and Livonia, 1023 has been a force to be reckoned with all season. A very strong teleop and hybrid scorer, The Bedford Express adds another strong name to the list of great Michigan teams to Newton. 1023 will make a great addition to any alliance that's lucky enough to snag them (that is, unless they're making the alliance themselves).

330 and 1717 bring a strong west-coast presence to Newton this year. After winning Central Valley, where they both looked exceptionally strong, both of these teams are strong contenders. 330 is one of the most legendary California teams of all time (perhaps only behind 254). They've earned it. World Champs in 2005 and an Einstein appearance in 2007 means 330 can succeed on the big field. 1717 has yet to make it to Einstein. Several division final finishes, but never to the big stage. After dominating at CVR, my money is on 1717 to make it to Einstein. Their swerve is of legend, and their shooting this year makes me go out on a limb and say 1717 has the best programming in FIRST right now. If 1717 can get their hands on the balls, they are going in. If they can find a partner to feed them well, 1717 may break records.

610 should be no stranger to a lot of people this season. They were surrounded by controversy earlier this year, but you can't deny that 610 has a great robot. They found some success in Canada this year, but took Arizona by storm, winning the event. 610 consistently build great robots, and almost made it to Einstein last year with 469. They may not be the most famous or dominant on Newton, but 610 can play smart, and will do just that.

1241 and 340 both competed at Buckeye. 1241 has competed prior at GTR East and West, winning a few awards and both, and qualifying for champs with a chairman's win at West. They haven't found as much success in competition as I thought they would, but 1241 has a solid robot, and if they can improve for championships, they'll be a solid force in qualifications and eliminations. 340 is a special team this year. They are triple qualified for championships, with a Chairman's Win at Finger Lakes (making it their 5th in a row, I believe), and with a win and Engineering Inspiration award at Buckeye. They're a dumper bot, but don't count them out. They're an almost guaranteed 10 points in autonomous, and a great teleop player. "Add Team 340 to #TeamStinger" and you've got a very dangerous player. Don't underestimate this fender bot.

Sorry for the long post. I was feeling rather Looking Forward-ish. And sorry if I missed anyone. These were just the teams that stuck out to me. I'm also sorry if I happened to have gotten any facts wrong. I'm definitely NOT Looking Forward, so my info may be faulty. Apologies in advance.

Newton looks REALLY tough.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I guess one thing I can see hindering Archimedes over Newton is the sheer number of long bots that will make triple balancing difficult. I can't see three long robots pulling it off, and I think it will be necessary by the time you get to the semis.

Is that crazy?

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I see the Championship is at 398 teams. Unless I am missing something, FIRST could raise it to 408 (102 per division) and not cause any additional qualifying matches. This would allow 10 additional teams to compete with no penalty to schedule.

Mr. Bill

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Are you saying Archimedes has too many long bots? Keep in mind that 1114 and 2056 can triple balance while hanging off the edge, and 2826 now has similar capability. I see something like 67 + 2056 winning Archimedes. And if anybody wants to beat an alliance like that on Einstein, they better be prepared to score 70+ and then triple balance.

I don't know which robots have developed new triple balancing capabilities, but I think Archimedes looks like it has the best bet to create one or two really high scoring, triple balancing alliances. I would LOVE to watch all four of the teams I mentioned face off in the division finals. And yes, there are plenty of other good teams apart from them, as has been duly pointed out earlier.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I'm not sure I follow.

The 100 team divisions will play 150 matches (100 teams * 9 rounds / 6 teams/round) with no surrogates.

The 99 team divisions will play 149 matches (100 teams * 9 rounds / 6 teams/round) with 3 surrogates.

This suggests that adding two (2) teams, total, would result in every division playing 150 qualifying rounds to meet the stated goal of 9 rounds for each team. Adding any more would add additional qualifying matches.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Actually adding 2 teams to each division to make each have 102(2 divisions right now have 99 and 2 have 100) would give a total of 153 matches per division. Giving each match a 6 minute cycle(load-in, match, load-out) would take just over 15 hours, which would be cutting it real close on keeping it within the 3 day timeframe.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Number of teams that have done a triple balance:

Archimedes 13
Curie 12
Galileo 21
Newton 15

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Archimedes is my predicted to win.

they have 67 1114 2056 359 1218 973 and even more......

It seems like the toughest division to win. The 1114 and 2056 powerhouse couple seems like it could get broken up again this year.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Mind listing these?

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Georgia representing over in Archimedes!

1311, 2415, and 1261!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Galileo looks like its gonna be fun :D

Attached are the rankings I have for Galileo. This is in order from highest OPR to Lowest OPR. My source of numbers come from 2834's scouting data base.

EDIT:

As for Archimedes I'm predicting a Canadian Domination this year ;) Im guessing 1114 gets 1st seed, and picks 2056 and 1 other Canadian team (possible 781, 4001 (2056's first pick in GTR West), 2809, 4334)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

From the thread on triple balancers:

Archimedes:
67 236 245 781 956 973 1114 1756 2056 2557 3456 4001 4206

Curie:
51 85 244 341 694 830 1501 2522 3098 3711 3940 3970

Galileo:
16 25 33 125 148 573 1350 1425 1671 1718 1732 1747 1918 2054 2337 2486 2928 3322 4028 4090 4146

Newton:
45 118 360 469 548 610 639 1023 1635 1640 1662 2200 2936 3230 3310

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I don't know how prevalent this is for other teams, but 706 has fixed its shooting issues discovered at the WI regional. We now will actually be able to score a considerable amount of baskets compared to only 1 tele-op point all of the regional. If other teams in the mid to low end spectrum of OPR's have done the same, then divisions should be even more competitive than on paper. We expect our OPR of 9.4 to at least double. Has this trend been seen in the past or are we a singularity. Also who else knows of a team doing the same thing?

In regards to the triple balance post above, 706 has triple balance with ease on the practice field. I don't know if that counts though. =D (Curie)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

We've knocked our reload time down by about half.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I was thinking the same thing. I think our team is expecting a performance better than what we had at our districts, but I didn't think we would be in the upper quarter of our division. (I know that 25/99 is technically not top 25%, but that was my initial thought)

On the other hand, I'm excited to see some of the teams we will get to compete with. I had been hoping to see 111 and 118 for a while now.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Don't count out 624 in Curie, the ability to capture balls off ramp and score them in Hybrid.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

The FRC qualifying match schedule includes 5 hours Thursday afternoon, 1.5 hours Thursday evening, 2.5 hours Friday morning, 5 hours Friday afternoon, and 2.25 hours Saturday morning. Total of 16.25 hours.

6 minute match cycle time has proved an easy target for field crews to hit this year, because real-time scoring has worked very well. At several events I have seen the field run ahead of schedule by more than ten minutes, sometimes by twenty minutes. I think the MSC crew got ahead by half an hour at one point -- right before Dean spoke. :rolleyes:

Re: Divisions 2012
 

MAR was much the same. It seemed like every event was ahead of schedule at times. Chestnut Hill even had an hour long field issue and ended up finishing the day more or less on schedule.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I'll be shocked if any division falls as far behind this year as they did last year. Last year we had to scramble to get the right tubes to the right places, but this year the only thing that should really keep the field crew delayed is waiting for the drivers to take (or decline) the balls for their robot.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Don't forget squeezing and bouncing the balls off the ground before loading them into the robot.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Maybe I missed it...but which divisions play which divisions on Einstein?

Re: Divisions 2012
 

This is only a list of the teams who have done a triple balance that counts so far this season.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I believe it is A vs G and C vs N.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

See section 5.6.3 of the manual.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

My understanding is that FIRSt has already sent out these additional invites as 2851 has received one and is currently trying to put the money together to go to Worlds.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Don't count out 488 on Newton either.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

My thought as well. We were able to triple more than once with 3 long base bots on the practice field (long base sideways/mecanum/long base), just didn't replicate during the match.

I've very pleased to see the spread of talent through all the divisions. Should make for exciting elimination matches/alliance selections!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Hard to think one of them will seed first with HOT loving the Co-op bridge and being perfect with it at MSC, and pretty close at the other three events they attended, oh and by the way, they can score a lottt.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Newton looks strong with the West Coast power. 330, 488, 1540, 1622, 1662, 1717, and the likes. Along with teams like Wildstang, Robonauts, etc., I think we're going to see a Newton dominance. (My guess: 1717, 111, 118)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

If you are going to mention West Coast power, don't forget there is more to the West Coast than California. 1983, 488, and 1540 are all representing the North West, and all of them are in the top twelve OPR wise for Newton.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Sorry, I'm geographically dumb. :\ Yeah, we got got a ton of power from Washington and Oregon! Just more power to the west coast! Newton is getting better and better by the minute.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

There's also 2 of the best teams from michigan, 469, and 548. Along with them there's 68, 2009 World Finalist. Newton is going to be a great division! I'm hoping for an all michigan alliance again. (just like 2009) :) Archimedes vs. Newton for Einstein???

Re: Divisions 2012
 

If that alliance happens I will be in awe. None of those three teams will be available for the 24th pick yet alone the 5th or 6th pick.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

New list:

1. 469, 1717, ???
2. 111, 118, ???
3. 488, 330, ???


I'm not good at predicting yet, but this is my pick.

469 and 1717 are the two best shooters in the game, so one of them will be seeding first, and picking the other. Then, most likely a feeder bot that can play a little defense (256 would fit in perfectly here...) will be a 3rd pick. Most matches will be the same: 1717 and 469 score immensely high in teleop. The third robot will be on the opponent's side by the 115 second mark, and will feed balls over until the 40 second mark. Then, I see a triple balance coming. The second alliance will have 111 on it, and most likely 118 will have worked on their shooting enough to get a faster and more accurate shot, so 111 will choose 118. Their 3rd team will either be a pure-offensive bot, or a bot that does a little bit of offense, and feeds balls to them, though the former is more likely than the latter. It's a bit of a tossup here. Both 111 and 118 are great offensive machines in teleop and hybrid, but when it comes to the bridge will they be able to pull off a triple? If they can, they are definitely getting to the finals of Newton, but if they can't it looks like the third alliance will. The third alliance will have either 330 or 488 as captains, choosing the other. Both are very accurate scorers, and I think they'll both see that as an advantage in each other when they get on the field together. Both 330 and 488 have had a lot of practice playing great defense, so though they'll be doing offense, they'll want a partner who can play a near equally well offense, and can control their alliance bridge. Balance it, tip it to a side, anything, as long as they have control of a bridge, they're good. 330 can play awesome defense, and feed well, too, so in teleop we can expect to see them crossing over a few times and messing up any fender shooters. When it comes down to finale time, 488 has experience with bridge defense, so I think it'll be stalling out the opponents. 330 will mess with them too, but at the last second go do a double balance with the third alliance partner.


@O'Sancheski: It's the dream alliance. Very unlikely, but in the rare chance it does...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Don't forget 2974!

Amazing that 4 of the 6 Georgia teams are in Archimedes. It'll be fun to play with some of our friends from Peachtree and all of the other great teams in the division.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I'm thinking so as well. My prediction? 469+1717 vs. 67+2056.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

469, 548, 68 vs. 67, 2056, idk maybe 247

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Agreed. And Newton's gonna win.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

NOOOOO...67+2056 is an unstoppable alliance

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Unstoppable until Einstein. Unfortunately, while I love those teams, looking around there are very few things unique about them. As the championships come closer, I think we'll be seeing a lot more of the 5/6 ball autons, the extremely high scores, everything. What's going to stand out is any obvious advantage over the other team, and what's going to win is an unobvious advantage over the other team. 67 and 469 know each other well. I think with the two of them against each other, we're going to see massive strategies unfold, and it will rely on their alliance partners to unbalance the equal skill between the two. I'd go as far as to say 1717 equals 2056 in scoring, and bridge balancing, so it's up to the third partner.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

It's in the manual:
Archimedes vs. Curie
Galileo vs. Newton
I always remember it as being alphabetical.

This is wrong. 1717 did not balance at all in CVR Elims. In fact they have a negative bridge OPR, as such I highly doubt that they will be part of a triple. 1717 makes up for this by just being an incredible shooter!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

They aren't. Not because 67/2056 is unstoppable (remember, 469 and 1114 was unstoppable in 2010), but because the odds of the stacked division winning are low.

It happens every year: The division lists come out, some division is quickly pegged as stacked, and predicted to win it all. Sometime on Einstein, that alliance loses two, and they don't win it all. This may be due to the epic battles royale in the divisional eliminations, or the breakup of really, really top teams, or something else entirely.

The only thing more predictable is Curie not winning it all.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Eh, they seem like the kind of team who is always improving. I wouldn't assume previous outcome equal to future outcome.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

The "stacked" division won both in 2008, 2009, 2011.... That's 3 of 4 recent years.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

1717 co-op bridged with us very easily.

They also have what is functionally the same exact drive as us (eerily similar considering their independent development).

We've done multiple triples with ease, and they have more ground clearance along with a better driver. If 1717 wants to triple at champs, they can.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Can they be wide? Check.
Can they drive? Check.

Those two things pretty much assure that they COULD be part of a triple balance.

Not saying it's going to happen or that it's in their best interest to do it...but, they definitely can be part of a triple balance.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

After not winning in a BUNCH of other years. 2007, Curie. 2005, Archimedes, IIRC (might be another, but not Newton). I want to say it was Galileo in 2004--Archimedes won. I don't remember the stacked division in 2006, but it might have been Newton with the 254/968 twins. (I don't remember which division won.)

2004, 2005, 2007, 2010, stacked didn't win.
2008, 2009, 2011, stacked won.
2006 needs more research.

I think that's a bit more odds against the stacked division winning than 25%...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Newton 2006 was IMHO the most stacked division I can remember in my 10 years in FIRST.

Newton ended up being finalists...

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I like a little parody every now and then. :D

I expect to see some parity, too.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Its a bit harder for any one robot to seed #1 in a larger champs division. With 100 teams in the division, and only 9 matches, you have a maximum of 18 unique partners and 27 unique opponents. There will be some schedules much easier than others. Having a larger field of participants, fewer qualification matches, and continuing the diverse qualification structure (over 50% not directly based on robot performance) almost ensures this.

If you are a great robot you can always guarantee one great robot on your alliance. That puts the odds in the favor of great robots, but it's not always enough. I predict 5 of the top 8 will be outstanding robots. 3 will make you scratch your head at the system. The #1 seed may be one of those 3 head scratchers.


I remember losing in the finals on Curie in 2010 to 1114, 469, and 2041. We all thought that would be the year. This is now 1986's 3rd consecutive year on Curie. To borrow a slogan from the last place KC Royals "It's Our Time" The curse will be broken! ;)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I think this year has been a bunch of upsets and with the co-op points affecting seeding heavily this year. I believe there will be upsets this year as there has been all season.

But there is a high chance this year that a robot could get a good schedule and end up seeding high maybe breaking up powerhouses. Like the 2056/1114 breakup.

I do think arch is my prediction to win.....

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Odd choice, since it has been 26 years since the Royals have made the postseason!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Maybe the Curie winners should just concede their Einstein matches and pack it up...no way to break a curse, right? (Insert missing sarcasm Smile);)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Also, we were supposed to coop with them at LA. First match, they were not working due to comm issues(FMS problems, not them). We got a rematch, and then we got comm issues. So the balance didn't happen. They can definitely balance. I've even heard the reason they chose to not double in CVR finals, was because they felt they could score more than 10(which came out to be true). Furthermore, they can turn their wheels sideways so that they act like brakes.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Anyone else notice Da Vinci as a playing field on the list with the FRC fields? Last I checked, there isn't a Da Vinci field.
http://championship2012.usfirst.org/...playing-fields

Re: Divisions 2012
 

I can't wrap my head around this statement. Is it a foregone conclusion that the best team in each division will seed #1, choose the 2nd best team as their partner, and advance to Einstein scoring exactly in line with their current, pre-Championship OPR? It's anybody's ball game.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Two new teams: 2851 in Archimedes and 1178 in Newton. Now 400 teams total.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Well bonus is there are only 96 teams to scout seeing our scouters already stalk 1114 and 2056, and 67 has been at all the same events as us thus far. Crevolution is super excited to compete.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

The way people here talk, you'd think there's no use in holding the Championship at all.

Seeding is going to be incredibly schedule dependent. Good teams will do well, but if any of several powerhouse teams in a division are scheduled against one another, it's going to screw around with any preconceived ideas of who's going to end up where and what the alliance selections will look like.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Pretty sure he is referring to the Curie Curse.


wooOOOOooooOOOoo

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to.

Calling all curse-breakers! Curie Division needs you!

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Curie actually has a GREAT chance of winning this year. Curie = 2004 Red Sox :)

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Curie almost won in 2009 but we under estimated Wildstang.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

As mentioned throughout this thread, Curie almost won 2010.

Re: Divisions 2012
 

Curie almost won in 2010 but then the curse took the dream alliance of 469 and 1114.