Teams to Watch
 

So now that the divisions are out and public, what teams should we be watching at Championships? What alliances could be formed with the potential of taking it all? What do you predict for Championships 2012? What underdog teams might do well?

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I predict Archimedes will be a bloodbath for division champions. The Hawaiian Kids 359 put up a solid performance at Lone Star, but were almost upset by the Cats from Atlanta 2415 in an amazing Semifinal match. Alas, there is also the number one ranked offensive robot in the world, and with 3 World Champion titles, they're itching to match Beatty for their 4th. The HOT Team 67 will be on fire when they line up to take shots. But, all three robots will have to band together if they want to even put a dent in the Canadian Powerhouse alliance of 2056 and 1114.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Einsteins finals will include at least one of the following teams from Arch: 2056, 1114, 67. That division is favored.
Galileo will see close competition but in the long run will be the underdog division.
Curie looks very strong but I cant help but believe the curse will persist.
I cant say too much about Newton, but I dont expect to see them make finals on Einstein.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Considering the spread of powerhouse team across the four fields, I feel that predicting an Einstein champion is going to be really difficult; there is at least three powerhouse teams on each division.

Some examples include...
Archimedes: 67, 1114, 2056
Newton: 111, 118, 469, 1717
Galileo: 16, 25, 148, 399
Curie: 233, 254, 341

...and they are only a few of many others! Whatever alliances come onto Einstein will be incredible. I will DEFINITELY be watching the Einstein matches.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I could see the main 2 teams from each field going to Einstein being:Archi-67/2056, Curie-233/341, Galileo-16/25, Newton-469/1717.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Oooo, predictions!

I've never posted predictions on Chief Delphi before but here goes:

Archi: 67/2056
Curie: 341/1986 (due to triple balance over 987/254)
Galileo: 25/148
Newton: 1717/469

Einstein: 1717/469

Guessing the third robot is way too hard, so I'm not going to bother doing that.

Teams to watch: 16, 25, 67, 341, 469, 987, 1114, 1717, 2056. That's who I was watch if I wasn't affiliated with any team and wanted to watch some good robots do their things.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Are you joking? 469 and 1717 are the two strongest shooters in FIRST (based on Teleop OPR and most division wins), and are both on Newton. That said, I don't know how good of an alliance they make together. I wouldn't be surprised to see them battling for Newton Champions. Newton has a deeper field than the other divisions (higher avg OPR) so the third robot on the alliance should be a bit better. When you've got the number one and two robots battling the three and four, there isn't much variance. But effect of that third robot could be everything on Einstein.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Here are my predictions for the Championship. I have decided to do alliance selections this year!
Archimedes:
1. 1114 2056 2557 W
2. 67 973 2815 F
3. 195 359 190 SF
4. 2826 2415 1816 SF
5. 126 234 1902 QF
6. 3747 1676 2046 QF
7. 1592 1218 1868 QF
8. 716 781 1261 QF
Curie:
1. 987 341 244 W
2. 624 233 1678 F
3. 694 254 58 SF
4. 1477 971 3929 SF
5. 1986 604 51 QF
6. 3205 461 3951 QF
7. 525 78 1511 QF
8. 3098 27 85 QF
Galileo:
1. 2337 25 103 F
2. 180 48 1038 W
3. 33 148 1212 SF
4. 16 399 1515 QF
5. 1718 2054 1323 SF
6. 1732 1538 2016 QF
7. 573 125 1918 QF
8. 237 1714 2377 QF
Newton:
1. 1717 469 2067 W
2. 330 118 3255 F
3. 111 610 3230 SF
4. 222 365 2200 QF
5. 548 2122 340 SF
6. 181 1023 329 QF
7. 1519 842 175 QF
8. 1126 191 45 QF
Einstein:
Archimedes: 1114 2056 2557 F
Curie: 987 341 244 SF
Galileo: 180 48 1038 SF
Newton: 1717 469 2067 W

Let me know what you guys think.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Sounds like fun, but Titanium is over in Curie.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I see one problem. #1 and #4 cannot play against each other in the finals because they've already played against each other in the semis.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

The fight for the Number 1 seed in Archimedes is going to be huge in deciding who will represent that field on Einstein. Now the question is how political the coopertition bridge will get on that field.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Team 1986 is in Curie. :)

Re: Teams to Watch
 

My bad. I thought I got all the match-ups correct. I guess I should go back and look at the manual for tournament rules.:o

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I see another: 2815 getting picked before the last pick of the draft?! That hasn't happened since Palmetto 2010! :P

I think CalTran has the gist though--while the exact combination is impossible to determine, I think most of those teams will find themselves as dancing partners. (And we certainly hope to make the dance ourselves. :))

Re: Teams to Watch
 

This has an air of Looking Forward to it....

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Naah, LF doesn't bold their "ands" between teams

Re: Teams to Watch
 

It will be interesting to see what happens in the dome. There are some high-powered teams that have been relying on vision up to now, and doing that in the semi-translucent dome with changing lighting may be..... challenging.

In addition, the idea that 100, or even 50 teams can get out and tune their cameras at both ends of the field in 45 minutes should result in a very interesting situation. I hope FIRST realizes what they've done there. Each team will get what... 3 minutes per side of the field? Not including moving from one side to the other?

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I'm calling Newton being the champions (with 469, 1717, and 330 (I think 330 will be feeding and playing D, though, but another feeder/defender could work)), and Archimedes will be finalists (I see 67, 2056, and another Canadian team).

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Though the bond between 1114 and 2056 is well documented and dominant through their careers, the fact remains that both of them are long bots. As we have seen, most dramatically by 148 at the Alamo, those 40 points can be the deciding factor in many cases. I believe that if either of the Canadian Powerhouses rank first they will choose Team 67 for an easier and more consistent triple balance. If 67 manages to grab the top spot, I believe they will ally with the better key shooter, Simbotics, to mitigate the risk of fender-bender defense. If HOT and Simbotics team up its hard to imagine an alliance to top that!
If anyone can, I presume it would be a 987 and 341 led alliance from Curie. :rolleyes:
Just my 2 Canadian Cents :D

Team 1325 would like to luck to all teams, we will be cheering you all on! :)

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Archimedes:

1. 67, 2056, 245 - W
2. 1114, 1592, 4001 - F
3. 1218, 2590, 190 - SF
4. 2826, 359, 2022 - SF
5. 1676, 1504, 781 - QF
6. 973, 1261, 1902 - QF
7. 1756, 195, 126 - QF
8. 234, 1311, 1403 - QF

Curie:

1. 341, 233, 830 - F
2. 987, 1986, 244 - W
3. 1477, 254, 1678 - SF
4. 971, 624, 51 - QF
5. 525, 1501, 1319 - SF
6. 3098, 78, 2180 - QF
7. 1507, 2474, 3929 - QF
8. 1985, 27, 85 - QF

Galileo:

1. 16, 25, 1583 - F
2. 48, 180, 1038 - W
3. 2337, 801, 3322 - SF
4. 33, 148, 1305 - SF
5. 1323, 2054, 125 - QF
6. 1718, 1732, 2169 - QF
7. 573, 399, 2016 - QF
8. 1714, 1918, 772 - QF

Newton:

1. 469, 1717, 86 - W
2. 548, 111, 45 - SF
3. 330, 118, 11 - F
4. 1023, 610, 2122 - QF
5. 222, 365, 816 - SF
6. 488, 1662, 375 - QF
7. 1126, 4294, 175 - QF
8. 340, 79, 107 - QF

Einstein:

Arch vs Curie - Arch
Galileo vs Newton - Newton

Arch vs Newton - Arch

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Wow -- getting 330 as 24th robot! That would be beyond awesome! :)

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Like I said, I really don't know much about the powerhouses in Newton.
Does Newton face off against Galileo first? If so then I take back that prediction. I was under the impression they were playing Archimedes first.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Read the Tournament section of the Manual blar blar blar. ;)

A <--> C

G <--> N

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I seem to remember it always being Archimedes vs. Curie and Galileo vs. Newton. Has it ever changed in the modern era?

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Well that changes things... I now expect to see Archimedes in the finals against Newton.
But I am rooting for Curie division, hoping they can break that curse.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I honestly believe that there will be two sure divisions represented in the finals on Einstein. Those are Archimedes and Newton.

On Archimedes, despite the history of 1114 and 2056, I honestly believe this year is not a dominant one for 1114, at least compared to their recent history. I think they're a phenomenal team that will do well on the field - and, I might add, are my favorites to enter the FIRST Hall of Fame this year - but I also think Team 67 is the most likely to seed first on that division. If that is the case, the first machine to come to mind is 2056. We've seen HOT triple with long robots before (548 at the Northville District), and I think a 67/2056 alliance could and would win that division. Teams like 359 and 973 will challenge, but it seems to be HOT's to lose.

Newton is the other very strong division. Against all odds - at such an event, it truly is a serious feat - Team 469 lost only a single match at the Michigan State Championship. On Newton, they'll be looking to go perfect, and they have the tools to do so. With their effective stinger, too, they'll score coopertition points with ease. If they seed #1, they'll have their pick of excellent partners to play with. Teams 548 and 1717 jump out to me as extremely attractive to 469, and an alliance containing either pairing has the potential to be world champions. This, however, could be upset by many other contenders, including the respectable 118 and consistently-excellent 111.

Curie will likely be dominated by Team 341, a robot that has seemed, at times, untouchable; however, with a strong remainder of the field, including perennial powerhouses like 254 and 233, as well as very respectable machines in 51 and 987.

As for Galileo...I'll hold my silence. I'll be behind the glass trying to ensure my own team seeds first, but I think that Galileo is the division with the least clear-cut favorites. It should make for an incredible event!

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Why does everyone think 359 is in curie?

Re: Teams to Watch
 

My mistake. I had a conversation earlier surrounding those two teams. Not sure how I made that connection.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Out of interest, shouldn't we also take into consideration special devices for balancing? 1986 and 118 have some amazingly effective tools to get a triple balance and I heard 1477 has something as well. Others with assistance are469, 1918(maybe), 610, and others have special lower gears (624) or brakes (118)

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Here's a Video (NOT MADE BY ME) about divisions. This was played during the FRCTop25 show tonight.

Cant wait for champs

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I am so confused as to why so many people think the Newton division is "weak" or a "toss-up". By most metrics, some of, if not the most powerful teams in FIRST are on Newton. The average OPR for Newton is a point and a half higher than all the other fields. The modes* for OPR scores on Galileo, Archimedes, and Curie are respectively, 8, 5, and 10. The mode for Newton is 17. 1717, 469, 1983. There is no end to the list of powerhouses on this field. My money is that someone from Newton will win on Einstein.



*Im not entirely sure if the mode is even slightly relevant from a statistical standpoint, but it certainly looks impressive.

In a large data set with many possible outcomes mode is not even a remotely significant metric. A simple intuitive test, do you actually think the average score on Newton will be 2.5 times the average score on Archimedes?

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Yes.

Not really, but I think that Newton is going to definitely set some score records. I know it's against 67, 1114, 2056, etc., but in the perfect match (which could happen), there will be a ton of scoring, and in the end a high-score. I know* 1717 and 330 (I know 1717, and heard 330 from a student on the team) were working on making their scoring faster in the weeks before champs, so with them and all of the other already strong scorers, fast scoring will be something that we're going to see a lot of on Newton. Especially if 1717 shares their vision tracking code.

So, while I can't say for sure the average score in Newton will be higher than every other division, I think we'll see some records and high scores.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I think some of these teams are over estimated and some teams are under estimated but majority look good

Re: Teams to Watch
 

You dont think 67 is going to be 1st seed? I think you under estimate michigan a little but I think you are right about the Curie and Newton winners.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Hot might be 2nd with the tough competition in there division. I kinda have to agree with him on the one but it matters on your match list

Re: Teams to Watch
 

It's *all* about the match list!

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I never underestimate HOT, but I have no faith in other teams. By intentionally not co-oping to bust up 67, 1114, and 2056. Seeding number 1 is not only up to those teams and if other teams act against them there is little recourse. I see this being like Newton 2006 when Aces seeded 1 and "scorched the earth" breaking up all the top teams.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

This is an interesting point. If someone outside of those three seeds first, it seems possible that at least two of the three would decline in order to avoid the other two getting together.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

1717. They are playing at a different level than everyone else.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

177 WHY ARE YOU NOT ON THE CHAMPIONSHIP LIST??? FIRST made a mistake on this one...its going to be weird not seeing you guys there :/ you will be very missed.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

just looking at it, it is understandable the 1st alliance captian, and their pick, that one i follow seeing as it is hard to change, however at most comps, the 2nd pick usually is up for grabs and is very hard to predict, like many have said before me, lots of teams are being under/over recognized

just my $.02

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I don't understand why people think that 67 will always pick 2056 over 1114 or why 1114 will pick 2056. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I would be surprised to see that if 67 or 1114 is first seed, that they won't pick each other. Especially considering both 1114 and 2056 are long-bots.

However, I wouldn't underestimate the level of competition in terms of qualifications on Archimedes, or any of the fields.

This is my first time watching Championship, so I'm excited by the level of competition, although a little less excited of having to keep a mental track of all the teams.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

67 does always try to pick wide bots during eliminations. Well, at least their third all around pick. Can't wait to see how it plays out at Champs.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

A lot of their strategy is to out score and starve the other alliance. Even when we (548, 2054, and 245) got a triple balance at the Michigan State Championship finals we still lost to 469, 67 and 830. Although the score in that match was 111 to 80... But I'm on the fence of whether or not those kinds of scores will be common in Archi. On the one hand a lot of teams in archi will be able to score fast and accurately. On the other hand each alliance will constantly run to the other end of the field to get the balls from the other alliance. But nonetheless this will be an awesome division to watch and be a part of. I simply can't wait.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Ah yes, I remember getting burned along with the other teams:(

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I think it'd be pretty sweet if we ended up with 103! (Of course, it'd also be pretty sweet to move past the finals, but we have a long way to go before that!)

One thing to be said about divisions that are stacked--be wary of having a mid-level bot seed high and break up the super alliances. I remember back in 2006 we were in Newton with a ton of powerhouses, but none of the predicted favorites seeded first (mainly due to beating up on each other during the qualifications) and those super alliances were all broken up. With seeding no longer relying on just win-loss records and other offensive measures, but also on the performance of the other alliance, seeding can get a bit crazy.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Alexa has a good point! I think that the stacked divisions' alliance selections won't go as smoothly as planned. Upsets usually cause some interesting elimination matches though! But without a doubt Archimedes qualifications will be tooth and nail; I'm excited to see what will happen!

Re: Teams to Watch
 

I'll be intreasting what happens in galileo. There are some teams there that could pull an upset.

Team 3255 is honored to be recognized as a contender for the Newton Division! Since winning the San Diego regional, we have a new shooter design (per rule R26) that we we will be installing that is consistently hitting 3 pointers in testing. You can check it out on our Facebook page: "Team 3255 SPHS SuperNURDs"

Re: Teams to Watch
 

2169 missing the elims for Galileo would be a huge surprise, you may want to look at their stats at Lake Superior and Wisconsin.

Re: Teams to Watch
 

Einstein Prediction for Archimedes: 67+2056/1114
67's a lock. That's a given. I think that HOT would go OP Robotics, and although Simbotics has the experience on Einstein, taking the races of Overdrive, 2056 handed them a loss at GTRWest, and although it may have been due to technical failures, the finals match 1 was never the less intense. They clearly have the capacity to beat out their former mentors, and are itching to add a Championship banner to their pleathora of Regional Wins. If there is any year they can break away from their Canadian bond, this is it.

Now in following up my Archimedes prediction: I predict that, finals on Einstein, a 2056/67 alliance will be facing off against 469/1717 from Newton in a total all out battle for the Championship trophy. 1717, after a strong performance at both LA and SVR, they're going to be playing it cool like penguins do to finally break the barrier of division eliminations. 469, on the other hand, has faced off against HOT at Michigan State Championships, and came out on top. After a strong performance in 2010, being upset by 67 in the finals of Einstein, they're ready to break out on to the blue banner stage. 469 is, without question, the faster of the two teams. Paired with the unlimited d'Penguineering strength they brought to the table this year, will finally taste the victory streamers of Einstein.