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Re: 2013 Game?
Since rehashes of old games are in the agenda for the last time next year, I am believeing to expect that we will see a 2005/2004 where tetras will be the main scoring element having 3 scoring locations. Two at the ends of the fields in the corner/middle in between driver stations and one in the middle of the field on each side touching the wall. In between these two scoring areas, you now have a bar similar to 2004 where you can hang from for extra points. Hanging from another robot would be more points as well.
That's the most likely scenairo I can see being used now. |
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Where's the game hint? It should be around here somewhere... No, but really, I feel like the veterans are getting bored, to a certain degree. It'll be interesting to find a game in which the veterans lack experience, the rookies can potentially play focused roles, and people can still easily understand what's going on. Irregularly shaped objects seems about right on this note, as it allows teams to second guess their rollers/intakes and step back from the board. - Sunny G. |
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The one before that was 2003's bins, which a roller would work very well for. Then you have to go back to 1999's floppies... those would be rather tough with a roller. I'm also leaving out the large exercise balls used in several years before 2005, and the mobile goals that fall into the same category, simply because on the balls you can use a roller, though a claw may be a better option, and on the goals there are too many types to go through good handling options. |
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I think FIRST really wants to develop games that are easy to understand and follow through simple rules, obvious scoring methods and foul calls, and live score counts. It's very important to engage people not in the competition but still attending them.
That being said, there are only two games in the modern era that have come close to those goals, but I expect them to carry those principles in game design with them in the future just like colored bumpers and 120 pound limits. I can't really predict what will come in 2013, but I expect you'll get a weird game piece that no one has dealt with in FRC before, and it will be offense-driven. |
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Does anyone know if in 2003, anyone actually built a stacking bot? I'm looking at video from stack attack and they're all pretty much small bots designed to just knock the wall to their side which would inevitably win the game.
I also want to know if there were any prohibited zones that the other alliance We're not able to enter without getting penalized? I feel like if they wanted to encourage stacking and not hording in the 2013 game then they would have to have some type of stacking zone that other alliances were unable to touch until some point in the match. |
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Since it has been awhile since I read the posts in this thread, I hope that I'm not repeating anything.
The possibility of stacking game seems highly probable either this year or maybe the next. If people's assumptions are true, I'm interested in seeing on how FIRST plans to make it viewer-friendly like Rebound Rumble. Robot Jenga maybe? I wouldn't mind too much of a reinvention of Triple Play. The matches I watched online didn't seem too bad and the game was easy to follow. Also, with the minibots being made from FTC parts and the bridges this year being taken from Get Over It!, I wonder if the GDC will add another FTC element into 2013 also. Bowling ballsmaybr? Why stop there drivetrains made from Legos. I'm more interested in the end game next year. It's going to be hard topping the excitement of a split-second triple balance. |
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330 built a stacking robot that could theoretically handle an infinitely high stack (though it would be rather precarious--in practice, our method could get about 8 before a collapse; in competition, we never got more than about 2 before someone knocked the stack over). However, due to the way the game actually played, the stacking arms became used primarily for causing about half the wall to come down. There were no prohibited zones; the first zone prohibition of any form came in 2006 (no more than 2 on defense during part of the game); the first all-match prohibition came in 2011 with the lanes. (Protected zones, where if you were in them you couldn't be hit, came a year earlier; see 2005's loading zone Kiss of Death 30-point penalty.) In retrospect, the reason for the stack attack in Stack Attack was that 1) it was a whole lot easier to knock down a stack than to build it up, 2) the top of the ramp was worth a lot of points in comparison to a stack, 3) the stack height ruling just kept on changing, so nobody really knew how tall a stack actually was until some time into build, and 4) the bins broke so often that keeping enough around to build a stack in practice was pretty hard :p . |
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I think correcting the awful ranking and elimination system from 2003 would be the largest worry to correct for another stacking game. I wasn't around then, but I've looked back here on CD and heard from others that it was ridiculous.
After that, I think we will see another game with an absolute maximum score (i.e. the game pieces can only be scored once, then remain in the "scoring position"). I would rather play a recycling game like 2012, '10, '08 or '06, but it seems that 2013 being such a game would be just a bit "out of order." My guess, which seems to be less common than some others, is the return of fixed, freestanding goals similar to the 2005 setup, but tetras aren't on the menu. |
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Rebound rumble was the first game in what may become a FIRST tradition of really spectator-friendly games. We don't need complicated scoring and viewing accompanying complicated engineering challenges. Which year brought in more publicity for FIRST - robots playing basketball, or robots hanging tubes on a wall?
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I think we'll probably see another lower scoring game like 2010, minus the sports themes of course, probably something luck related (at least for the name) since it's 2013.
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Its all about a water game guys. (Not really) I think it will be some sort of race like Overdrive but with a different goal needed to win.
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If we are looking for spectator-friendly, people really need to talk less before Einstein. I saw multiple randoms come by with their kids to see the finals. After loads of important people gave boring speaches for 3 hours, they left without seeing a single match.
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The "spectator friendly" thing also translated better to Local news as "RObots shooting hoops" is a lot more reader friendly than "Robots picking up innertubes off the floor and hanging them on posts 3-6-and-9 feet off the ground"
I think well see less obstacles...or I hope we do - lower tier teams who couldnt pull down the bridge were next to useless this year and just ate up space. So Id like to go back to a somewhat flat field. I'd personally like to see a stacking game because its been so long since the last true one. |
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Something that has lots of degrees of difficulty would be nice. Its already been said in various places, but defensive robots were actually quite hard to do due to the bridge/barrier. Overdrive, correct me if I'm wrong, allowed teams to simply build a driving base and still score points for their alliance. Something that is easy for rookies to do, but has more complex elements for the veteran teams to tackle =)
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This has been a goal that has been explicitly recognized by FIRST (I believe), and so it should be less than a surprise when we see a game that follow these trends. Quote:
I agree that this game naturally discouraged drive bases, perhaps an unfortunate oversight. However, can we afford to have games that have such an elementary level while the best continue to get better? - Sunny G. |
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I would love to play a game with rubber traffic cones(Maybe similar to triple play?). Then make it so that you can collect more than one at a time and you got one heck of an interesting challenge for teams. :rolleyes:
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FRC has never had a divided field - imagine a giant version of this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAo6eAyh-VQ |
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As far as the 2013 game will be, it's certainly going to be a non-sport, and I cast my vote as well for something with an enhanced autonomous mode, given the past two years, a high scoring end game, but I don't think it's going to be a simple field. |
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I just want to know whats in the KOP...
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Now, they really only went into the planning ahead in the last couple of years... but better late than never. Games still aren't designed more than a year or two in advance, though. |
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I think the GDC will limit themselves to designing the next two games, because: Imagine some part of the 2013 game is terrible and everyone (including the GDC) agrees it shouldn't come back. The GDC wouldn't want to have a game queued up for four years later (possibly similar, because of all new students) that incorporates that same aspect, then have to redesign it. Less years ahead means better reaction times on improvements to the games. I think future games will get consistently better, the more "bad ideas" have been eliminated, and the more good element combinations are found. |
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I really just hope that its a simple field to build... I like 2011... 4 racks and some poles...
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What if the game has to do with landing on Mars? There could be an autonomous where you have to get your robot to a certain part of the playing field (landing on Mars) to score points. The field could simulate rough terrain and be, well, rough. To score you could maybe have to move different pieces to different parts of the field to score (2005ish). The end game could be moving your robot to a different part of the field, but this one would be harder to get to than the rest of the field (Up a ramp? In a pit? UNDERWATER?!?!?! The possibilities are endless!) I think that an unconventional field could be fun!
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The idea is an intriguing one, though. It seemed to me that the GDC was talking about turning more seriously/permanently to straightforward, fast-paced sports in order to increase "spectator friendliness" and answer the perennial "ok, but why bother to [stack tetras, hang tubes, drag trailera] in the first place?" question. But the idea of mimicking to some laymen-appreciable extent an impressive scientific feat, while still maintaining an interesting, friendly, strategic, everything-a-good-FRC-game-has-to-be game is really very cool, if it's possible. My money's still on footballs. |
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Just issue everyone triangular wheels (or cover the floor with really big corn kernels) |
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I was just looking up some trends, and since 1996 (the year before the first game not involving balls), every game in an even-numbered year has included a ball as a main game piece and every game in an odd-numbered year has not*, bar 2001, which is widely considered the worst FRC game ever. We all know the GDC loves bucking trends, but will they dare to break this pattern again? I doubt it....
* and 2009, but those orbit balls weren't really "balls", right? |
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I'm going to go brush up on active drive systems, and linear lift systems. -Nick |
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I'm really hoping for tetras. An arm/elevator will be almost a sure deal, after a game that didn't require them. As always, an awesome drive train will be required to do well.
You heard it here first folks. The robot will definitely need wheels and will probably have an arm. |
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where do you find the speech ?
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No game piece could be more shamelessly recycled than the tetra. On top of that, what new stuff can you really do with it? A mashup of Frenzy with odd game pieces could be entertaining. I like the idea of "physical challenges" the robot has to perform on an object to pull itself up, stack other robots, or balance itself as the endgame portion. They could theme it to a mission to Mars where your alliance has to collect resources of various shapes, sizes and values into 2 of your alliance's movable bins, and doing something like putting the bin on your robot gives you bonus/multiplier points. 2 bots balancing one bin each receives x points, one bot balancing two bins earns y, and spilling your bin earns you a z penalty.
(Doesn't this work better in the Rumor Mill?) |
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Since the GDC is so big on cooperation, I think it would be cool, if robots had to pass game pieces from one to another to score. Nothing more specific than that right now.
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This is a completely random guess, but I think the game this year is going to be dodge ball, where you can hide from your opponent behind tall cubes, and for the endgame you have to climb on top of the cube to score points. I think that would be a fun game, but probably not to likely if they're continuing the pattern of a sport, no sport, sport etc this year.
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Another thought. Because I believe the kinect will be more favorable for use next year (The GDC will make it so), The Game might have somehting to do with seeking out objects on the field or avoiding them. Kinect would be useful for both. Maybe the game is to do something WITHOUT knocking over stacks, since the stacking seems to be a popular guess this year?
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Maybe this year's game will have the drive team not on the field. Maybe you will have to use the Kinetic to detect obstacles and use the video to drive by or find objects. The game piece a tub, crate, or tetra and you have to stack them some how.
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Edit: or did you mean just that the players just can't see the field and have to use video to do so? |
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Regardless of what type of game they go for, I think it's going to be more fast-paced and spectator-friendly. I think the bridges were one of the best endgames we've seen so far... not necessarily difficult but still dramatic because of the occasional 3-robot balance, and yes, flipping robots ;) |
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I think a stacking game is gonna happen, havent seen one since 2005 (Triple Play), and they havent used a tetra since then, but more than likely it gotta be a stacking game
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Well I think the game is kind of obvious after you think about how FIRST has decided the games in the previous years. In the past they have made the game relate to modern day events. For example, the Lunacy game was the 40th anniversary of the moon landing and the Rebound Rumble game was during the NBA lockout. The only major event going on lately (that I can think of) is the robot landing on Mars. So I think that this year's game will be about the Martian landing.
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How about a button or a pressure plate that robots activate that changes the field in some way? i.e. one robot stays gets on a pressure plate that opens a door and holds it while a teammate goes through. If the first robot gets pushed off of there by an opponent, the second robot will be stuck until somebody can open the door and save him.
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I personally want a game based loosely on racing, maybe have the robots go around an obstacle course of some sort while carrying an object like a crate or a ball, and take the average of each alliances' robots' times and who evers faster while still carrying the ball would win
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Similar to 2008, then?
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