Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

If there is anyone interested in helping me encourage more female engineering mentors to get involved with STEM and will be at the 2012 IRI please see this thread:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...16#post1178116

Thank you!

Renee

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

A few points...

Yes, traditionally "feminine" women get a lot of flak, and yes, it doesn't surprise me to hear that young women can be turned off by feminine STEM role models. The women who have paved the way in STEM fields have often done so by becoming "one of the guys": jeans and cargo pants, ThinkGeek shirts, hoodies, duct tape wallets, etc. And that's all just fine. I did that myself for years. But when a manager at work pulled me aside at one point and suggested I start dressing more professionally to reflect the roles I'd taken on, and I thus started dressing in trousers, blouses, and heels, I was surprised at the comments I got from people -- always "joking", of course, but still negative and problematic in aggregate . "You don't look like an engineer!" "How can you be our cool geek girl if you're wearing pearls?" etc etc etc. So now that the stereotype of engineers is not just "geeky men in free Linux distro tshirts" but is moving toward "geeky men and women in free Linux distro tshirts", we've created a new stereotype that many young women who are traditionally feminine may not fit. On the other hand, the young women who are maybe attracted to STEM fields because they are the ThinkGeek shirt-wearing geeks will be turned off if suddenly all the STEM outreach for women changes to "Attractive feminine women in heels" -- that might be exactly the kind of girl they feel bullied or intimidated by in school, and the last thing they want to do is go into a field that is advertised as being for the same women they're trying to avoid. The problem is the extreme generalizations one way or another about young women and their interests, whether it's "they're not interested in STEM at all" or "they'll only be interested if it can be about sewing and lipstick". Surprise, women aren't all the same! And we need to find ways to attract *all* of them, not just a specific type. So there needs to be space for outreach to appeal to different types of women without criticism.

To address another point, from the perspective of someone who gets to be a (literal) poster child and role model for women in STEM, it's frankly exhausting. And I'm early in my career; I can't even imagine with the Marissa Mayer, Helen Greiner, etc types have had to deal with. It's an incredibly rewarding thing, to get to talk with younger students and get them excited about the things I'm passionate about, don't get me wrong. It's something I love to do. But when you're the go-to token Tech Woman, you start having to turn down offers because your day job (and FIRST!) keep you so busy, and not only that, you feel as though you're under a lot of scrutiny. Once you have a reputation as a Woman in Tech you start worrying about how your own decisions affect that. What if I get into project management and out of the day-to-day technical stuff, am I selling out and not being "STEM" enough? Is that too stereotypical of women? What if I move somewhere else because of my partner's job; am I going to disappoint people who expect me to be more focused on my career, even if I can find ways to keep it going in the new place? I'm still a few years away from starting a family, but I'm already panicking about what I'm "supposed" to do about maternity leave (and articles like this really don't help -- there doesn't seem to be any right answer that doesn't inspire judgement and criticism).

People were responding to another poster telling her not to worry or go crazy thinking about this stuff. But I completely understand her and I do it too. When you're so often the only woman available as a role model, you feel a lot of pressure to make sure you're doing it "right". And to those of us who didn't necessarily have female role models doing exactly what we wanted to do, we feel it is incumbent upon us to manage to show everyone else that "it" can be done, whatever "it" is for us -- having the high-profile job, being heavily involved in some other hobby or organization, being feminine while still being a well-respected engineer, successfully managing a family, whatever. Whether or not that's sane or reasonable to feel is beside the point; the point is that many of us DO feel this pressure and it's affecting what and how we're able to contribute to these outreach efforts.

So why can't you get female engineers to come mentor, to come speak, to come be role models? Because they're probably already doing it a whole lot, and whether it's because of schedule or because of feeling a little drained, they may just not be able to do it yet another weekend.

What's the solution? Well, if I knew that, I'd be a lot less stressed about this. But I wonder if maybe (perhaps paradoxically) the answer is to get *more* women, at the same time, in to mentor/speak/etc at the same time as multiple men. Make it incidental that there are female role models present; don't make it the focus. It takes pressure off them if they're not told PLEASE COME REPRESENT HALF THE POPULATION AND TELL OUR FEMALE STUDENTS HOW TO SUCCEED.

Have you ever noticed that half our judges at the Boston Regional are female? That's intentional. But we don't point it out. We don't make a big deal of it. We don't recruit judges of either sex, or of any ethnic or racial minority, or of any age, or of any particular occupation, saying "Please come be our token [whatever] judge!" We just put together a good, interesting group of people who represent different races, different sexes, different ages, different levels of nerdiness or femininity or fashion-consciousness, and different ways to engage with STEM in real life. And we let the students decide who among that group can be the most meaningful role model(s) for them, and hope that we've done a good thing to provide so many different kinds of inspiration.

I don't mean to denigrate the efforts of STEM outreach that focuses on female role models. I think that's good and that it can work. But people have pointed out where it doesn't seem to be working and the trouble they have finding women willing to help out, and I wanted to address some of the reasons I think that is the case.

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

There are a lot of complex & nuanced factors that contribute to this kind if pressure. The pressure is real, but I think it can be kept manageable if a few guiding principles are kept in mind.

1. Appearance (not just clothing, but the whole persona) matters, especially in certain jobs (e.g. PR), but every job has a range/continuum of acceptability. If we pick the most comfortable place (suitable to our talents and temperament) along that continuum, we'll reduce the stress. If there's no place on that continuum that's suitable, perhaps we're in the wrong job or volunteer position (one reason I've never aspired to become a politician).

2. Appearance matters some, but it's not everything (how often we say this, but do we really believe it?). When I was in academic research, I tended to dress Bohemian, as I was surrounded by research profs and grad students who were similarly wardrobe-challenged. A medical school intern at the lab had teased me on my worn and torn garb, but it must not have mattered much because he later 1) spoke favorably of my technical skills to someone else, and 2) asked me out :-)

3. No matter what we do or say, we will please some people and disappoint others. Rather than carrying the weight of that disappointment, if we chalk it up to a normal part of being human, we'll sleep better. Strategically prioritizing and choosing who to cater to/disappoint also helps. For example, as a jr. college instructor, I have students who like to chit-chat and text, and others who like a quiet learning environment. I can't satisfy both of those groups at once, so I have chosen to have a no talking/no electronic device policy that I enforce. It means that I have enemies, but also some extremely loyal students who appreciate the more professional climate. (My attire these days is also more "school-marm" than Bohemian, to bolster my credibility/authority.)

4. We tend to be our own worst critics. Really.

The most inspiring role models are those who do something well and love what they do. While every job (paid or unpaid) will have frustrations, if there's no joy at all, perhaps it's time to pull back and/or re-evaluate. Yesterday, a friend expressed that after 10 years of a high-prestige job that she initially enjoyed, the only part she now likes is the paycheck. Thankfully, she's taking steps to move to something that has already "grabbed her heart," and her ability to be a positive influence will be enhanced by that passion. Burn-out doesn't help us or others, so it's good to find levels that are sustainable, even if it means sometimes saying "no" to an opportunity to present or mentor.

After 30+ years in STEM, I'm still lovin' it. The joy of creating/discovering something cool has evolved into different forms over the years, but it's still there, and no opinion of others can take away that joy. I'd like to think that there's some appeal in that for other women who might follow in my wake.

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

I love robotics; even though I’m not and engineer I have stayed involved with FIRST currently mentor two teams 254 and 1868 and work with more than a few others. However robotics isn’t the only thing I love, I love my horses and working out and clothes and most importantly of all I adore shoes. For those who don’t know me because I’m the only female mentor for 254, they might because I’m the one who runs around in high heels all the time. More than once I have had my abilities to be a good mentor questioned solely because of how I looked. I’m still baffled that in our current pop culture jeans and heels is even worth noting or commenting on in terms of fashion.

I have to question what is wrong with our girls if the fact that I have on heels and make up is enough to make some girl not be an engineer (if that is what she loves). Why don’t we focus more on teaching our children that you get to be exactly who you want to be and if that means you never put on make-up great! And if you love it wear it! But I worry about this generation of girls and the ones to come if something as stupid as my fashion choices render them unable to stand up for something they want. . . it just seems like there is a bigger problem than fashion.

That said as a side note (and I’m sure some of this is the team I mentor and it’s reputation we are trying to fix) but the women of FIRST with very few notable exceptions have not been welcoming and more than a few have suggested I cannot be a good role model for STEM and be who I am. Fortunately for me, lack of confidence has never been my problem :D so I have the ability to laugh and go congratulate my students on their successes. That said there has been more than one time where I have legitimately almost said “%*# I’m out” because if I hear one more comment about being pretty or girlie or what ever making me a bad role model I was going to break something. But if we as a group are going to be this unwelcoming to new women and try to run them out because of fashion no wonder there are not many female mentors in FIRST and no wonder our girls have such a hard time accepting some one other than the cookie cutter “nerd girl” who is too smart to care about how she looks.

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

I think you're misinterpreting these studies. Feminine STEM role models do not significantly undercut girls who are already confidently interested in STEM (can be inspirational for some). Rather, examples of feminine STEM role models in these studies discouraged girls who hadn't yet considered/become invested in the option. (Though one study does indicate that they can undercut girls' perception of their abilities regardless of whether they're pre-invested or not.) I agree that we should be teaching everyone to follow their dreams regardless of their view of the role models in the field, but the problem is less getting driven away from what you love and more about never realizing the option for it in the first place (rather different issue).

Most of these studies are in direct response to the deliberate feminizing of science to recruit girls and 'open their eyes' to STEM (which have arguably been closed to it by other societal factors). The argument is this is not effective and can actually be detrimental and eye-closing rather than eye-opening.


As for a lack of acceptance of the women in STEM, that's weird. Guys, yeah, all the time (:rolleyes:). But women, I've never seen/had that before...

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

I think it's less the fact that some women wear makeup and dresses than it is that a lot of the campaigns that try to appeal to girls are belittling. The European campaign's video is basically an amalgam of "science-y" things (but also a lot of makeup products?) and girls laughing together as dreamy male model scientist looks on. I think the main problem with the video is that none of the things the girls are doing seem very tangible. Sure, there are like, vague images of beakers and giant math equations, but I don't know what exactly they're doing, nor do I know if it's something I'd like!

The issue is not an imaginary dichotomy between femininity and STEM--women in these fields are doing a ton of interesting and unconventional things! We have people designing clothes with sewable electronic components, origami that moves on its own, people making tiny terrariums, kids making free video games for their friends, and so much more! For this reason I think stuff like Maker Camp is much more effective than a 30 second ad that tells girls it's okay to like science but doesn't give them any way to actually break into these fields. Like, I have access to a pop star telling me how to make some sweet sunglasses with some LEDs. That sort of thing that is a real, tangible experience that is totally relatable to my life, and the things I like to do (aka having sweet sunglasses). It also gives me some experience in electronics, and maybe I end up liking tricking out my clothes and accessories so much that I consider something like electrical engineering as a career! Even if I don't and end up becoming a professional underwater basket weaver, I've learned something new and had fun doing it.

Instead of marketing STEM as something we should not be ashamed of, give us opportunities to make and do things that we might not have known about or had the guts to do before due to lack of resources or experience.

haha oh man that was one long first post, sorry guys

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

Jess - I could not have said it better myself. I will admit that I too wonder sometimes if I am the "best" role model for the young women on our team... and I try to remind myself, each time I hear this question whispered in my mind, that I can only do my best... just like every other mentor. My answer is to try to relate to what they are looking for, sharing my experience, and helping them achieve their goals in whatever way I can.

I totally agree with this point as well... and I have seen it way too many times, oddly enough, from the Girl Scouts as well. Almost every science program they offer somehow relates STEM to makeup or some other very girly topic, totally alienating the girls who are actually interested in STEM in the first place. This has been a point of frustration expressed to me by many young women who have given up on scouts because of that lack of substance in their program.

Re: Research says: Feminine STEM role models do not motivate girls
 

My apologies in necro'ing a thread, but a spotlight post spoke to me, and I followed it, and I read, and I am called to post...

Inspiration can come from any angle - the key is to be there to fan it to a flame when the spark lands.

3946 currently has no female technical mentors (Wendy has a science degree, but her main role is with safety contracts, ordering shirts, and organizing transportation and lodging.) Despite this, we have consistently had about a 2:3 mix of girls and boys on the team right from year one.

Case studies: Victorija: I don't know how she was recruited, but she was one of our best mechanical students in 2013. She's now majoring in ME at LA Tech, her younger brother is on the team (heap big fundraiser last year as a freshman), and her mother drove me up to St. Louis last year. I've never seen nor met her father. She came to the team knowing what she wanted to do, and learned a good bit from us.

Robin: A great team member the last three years, and our most accomplished student solderer to date. Even though she decided that she needed to take a job this year rather than sticking with the team, she supported us through tryouts this fall to teach soldering. I have no idea whether her career will be in STEM, but I know I'm not the only mentor who will provide her with an excellent reference whatever she decides to do with her life. (OBTW, she was one of only two human players I know of who threw litter over an FRC defensive net in 2015, both at Bayou Semifinals match #2.)

Veronica: In the interest of full disclosure, my daughter. I was a bit surprised when she joined the team, as VJ has no interest in a STEM career (she's intending to become a signer for the deaf). She grew up in my home, and though she tried to deny geekhood, it was in the blood. (Though it didn't work out, her mother and I met at a science fiction convention.) When we earned a trip to St. Louis, her sales ability (from her mother or perhaps my brother, not me), raised her to second on the team (just behind Leevi, Victorija's brother).

MaryEllen: Wow! This is her sophomore year, but she's already shown me more capability than some of our graduates. I don't know what we did to deserve her, or to recruit her, but I fully expect her to be a success in whatever she decides to pursue. With two Mary Ellens per year, an eight-student team would probably be dominant at just about any regional. I don't know what inspired her, or what keeps her, but I'm hoping for a repeat.