Spikes not working (Solved)
 

We are working on the robot for the 3rd of July parade and our spikes are not working. We are using one to control a compressor and one to activate a valve. We had the spike that was controlling the compressor working, but it has stopped working oddly. It has an orange light. We have tried using two other spikes for this and the valve spike, but the other two only show an orange light and do not react.

edit1: The lights on the sidecar change.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

A spike showing an orange light means it's not getting signal. Did you change your code?

See also: a search for "spike orange light"
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...orange+lig ht
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...orange+lig ht
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...orange+lig ht
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...orange+ligh t

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

What is the Digital Sidecar (DSC) doing? There are two small LEDs next to each of the relay ports that should light up to show which direction it is signaling.

If those aren't turning on, check the following:
- Code
- Power LED's on the DSC - all of them should be lit up
- Try replacing the DSC.


If they are coming on but the Spike isn't responding, try the following:
- Get a multimeter and probe the DSC output. You should be able to see the pins switch voltages with the lights.
- If the pins look good, plug the PWM cable back into it and probe the other end of the cable, where it plugs into the Spike.
- If the cable looks good, check how you're inserting it into the spike. Make sure it goes in straight, push a little bit to make sure it sits fully, and ensure ground is on the correct side (check that it matches ground on the DSC!).

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

Check your fuses.

Since the robot doesn't have to be competition compliant you can replace all your fuses with auto-resetting breakers. The same ones that go into the power distribution board.

Also make sure you have the spikes plugged into the relay portion of the sidecar, not the PWM/Servo/Jaguar/Victor portion.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

Also, if you can make pictures of the important parts available - PDB, DSC, Spike - while in operation (aka LED's on the DSC lighting up when it should be triggered), it could help diagnose. Ensure you have things properly labeled, so we know where the power from the PDB is coming from, which side of the Spike it's going into (double check this, don't assume!), which port each spike is connected to, etc. Something could jump out at us that we wouldn't think to tell you just from a problem description.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

Are the PWM cables running between your Spikes and the Relay Outputs on the Digital Sidecar fully seated? Are they oriented correctly? For red/white/black cables, the black wire should correspond to the (-) pin on the Sidecar and the pin labeled "B" on the Spike.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

Thanks to everyone for your advice. It turned out that the PWM cable was not working properly. Who knows how many times it has been pushed in and out over a year and a half? Thanks again. :]

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

This is exactly why I Hate PWM's. They always break or fall out. we actually started hot glueing ours in this year. but they break all the time, so idk if its worth it...

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

LIKE. We did the exact same thing. They had somewhat less breaking, but turned into an absolute pain for on the fly changing of the victors/jags.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

We epoxied our cables in on our robot this year but the connectors are becoming worn and we had to scavenge cables from 2011 and 2012. They'll be epoxied later tonight. Thanks to everyone, and we will have pictures and video of our EOD robot after the parade.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

How does the hot glue affect the device? Any downside other than having to clean out the glue in order to replace the cable?

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

We've had some issues seating the PWM connectors but after they are seated. They are strain relieved and then hot glued. Never touched them since Our FIRST regional.

Rich, its really easy to just take off the hot glue, like 5 minutes worth of work.

-RC

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

There may be some residue from the adhesive. We used epoxy, and there is definitely some residue that may have made it harder to reseat and that caused this problem to begin with. That said, the upsides (keeping a compressor working through a match vs. having it unseated and fail) far outweigh any downsides, and 99.9% of situations the cables should be glued or epoxied into their seats on both ends.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

Another reason I like CAN... If the cable works, it will work virtually forever... Even if somebody messes up and snaps a clip, all that is needed is another clip which can quickly crimped on. Not to mention that you can never get a cable backwards and aside from the left black Jag port of the first Jag (serial CAN), you cannot get the wrong port ever. Now if they only made competition legal CAN relays... that IMHO would be awesome.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

We use clear silicone bathroom caulk (it comes in a nice toothpaste-ish tube) for all PWM and other signal wire connectors, plus black duck tape on the radio. It's fairly sticky, and fairly easy to remove.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

For future reference, seating PWM cables into a spike are a real PITA. Back when I was still wrestling with the IFI system in the pits, we had just one spike that refused to work properly. It would operate our pneumatics, but only in one direction. After wrestling with it for half an hour (compounded by the fact our electronics were mounted vertically underneath our robot's arm).

Turns out just one of the pins was not seated properly. Talk about 30 minutes of debug wasted [an important lesson learned].

Something you can do to make sure the PWM cable is seated properly is to remove the top portion of the spike case (I don't remember any warranty stickers attached here). If you tug on it a little, the top will come off. Then you can actually see the terminal, and if you thread the PWM cable through the top of the case and see it plugged in, you won't have to worry about it being seated properly. Then you can push the top of the case back on, strain relief the cable and forget about it.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

From what others have told me, some silicone products (like marine silicone sealants) produce corrosive gases while curing so it is best to use silicone products designed to be compatible with electronics (which will not produce the corrosive fumes). The spikes' PCBs are coated so that might protect them to some degree, but the PWM connector left unprotected since the coating would render the connector useless.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

The polymerization reaction of consumer-grade RTV silicone caulk and adhesives outgasses acetic acid. Although it is a weak acid, it is an acid nonetheless, and could cause corrosion if trapped against metal.

Re: Spikes not working - URGENT
 

This is more of a reminder of the values of a well organized and carefully built electrical system (I apologize for going a bit off topic, but these tips will make any future troubleshooting easier and faster):

Troubleshooting an electrical systems can cause a lot of headaches and take up valuable time during build season and at competition. The best way to troubleshoot a good electrical system is to start before the first wire is crimped. If you start with an organized and careful approach, you can save a lot of time in the long run. Two of the easiest ways any team can do this is label every wire and component, and test and check wires multiple times before adding them to the system.

Effective labeling is a must for any electrical system. This means to label both the components and the wires, and stick to a system for all labels. For example, my team labeled all jaguars with a number, all victors with a "v" followed by a number, all spikes with a "s" followed by a number etc. This helped the electrical team to easily identify what each wire was connected to and allowed the programming team to figure out what controlled things such as motors by looking at the motor rather than tracing the wire from the motor back to the speed controller. A quick tip for labeling is to label each end of the wire and label each wire individually, instead of using the same label for things such as power and ground wires on the same component.

Proper wire construction is the cornerstone of a solid electrical system. PWM wires can be very temperamental to build, as an improper crimp can be easy to make and hard to detect, but these tips can apply for all wires. First off, it is very easy for anyone to make a mistake when crimping a PWM pin. Crimp too much of the housing and not enough wire and the wire won't conduct properly, and crimp too much wire and not enough housing and the pin can easily snap off. To remedy this, after a visual inspection, use a multimeter to test a crimp both before and after placing the pin in the housing to make sure that the pin is conductive. If its not at either time, then it's back to square one, better to be safe than sorry.

Taking these extra steps will take extra time and patience, but it is well worth it, considering how it will better prepare you for the season ahead.