Sabotage
 

So the Einstein report has been out for an entire weekend now and I think everyone has had a chance to digest it a bit. Yes, there was some foul play, but also many other factors. It is quite unfortunate that it happened the way it happened, but we're all learning from it and moving forward.

While cruising the interwebs, I came across this video.

I'm still rolling on the floor. I think it would do everyone good to take a moment and have a good laugh. Perhaps the Brothers will play this on Friday at IRI??

Upon further investigation, I also stumbled across this photo album...

What is Dean Simmons and the Kamen Brothers up to????

I can't wait to find out...See you at the show!

Re: Sabotage
 

I find this a bit insensitive to the victims of the attack. I do not expect to be alone in this opinion, especially when esteemed members of our community, such as Karthik, have made it very clear that they are not taking this issue lightly. While it would be nice to be able to laugh right now, the situation is still raw. It doesn't strike a good chord with me, and even as I hope that we can reach a time when this issue is not so painful, I think making light of it is over the line.

P.S. I do not want to put words in Karthik's mouth. I have great respect for the opinions he has conveyed elsewhere, and I am forming my own, here, which may be much in parallel with what he has said. I have merely chosen to provide an example of someone who has made a related (yet more eloquent) remark on another sub-issue within this vast set of circumstances.

Re: Sabotage
 

I'm sorry to hear you feel this way about it. Yes it sucks what happened; however, we cannot change the past. We can only look into the future and plan to prevent what has happened. For now though, enjoy a little comic relief and save yourself the stress of what has happened.

Re: Sabotage
 

Boy, I wish I were going to IRI this year to maybe catch a glimpse of this fabled musical experience.

Re: Sabotage
 

As I would expect Karthik to. He had a direct interest in the outcome of those matches and to have that tampered with would not sit well with me either if it were my team. However, its not about winning or losing and it never has been. All of the Einstein teams have much to be proud of for simply getting to that point. Consider this: A half inch shift on the bridge and 67, 2826, and 4143 are the Archimedes representatives and not the Eh Team. Would Karthik feel the same way if he experienced this from the sidelines? Only the man himself can answer that, but it has no bearing on my opinion - why should it affect yours? Get some rest and try to enjoy it again tomorrow!

Re: Sabotage
 

While I partially agree with you, don't forget that some highly esteemed members of our community made this song/video too. Just saying.

Re: Sabotage
 

I am all for looking forward and being proactive to prevent a repeat performance in the future, but I find it very disrespectful to mock the teams that had a fair chance at winning on Einstein taken from them by one person who does not hold him/herself to the high standards of FIRST. I think that letting the whole ordeal fade from public view, at whatever pace it may take, would let the affected teams have more proper closure. We should also avoid bashing the perpetrator for the sake of his/her former team members, who don't need to be reminded of the shame likely coming to them once their identity is known.
I don't want to start a threadlong argument, so I rest my case.

Re: Sabotage
 

And if we hadn't died in Newton Finals 1, and then 548, 118, and 2194 had fallen off the bridge in Finals 2, we could have been in their place. That's not the point. I watched Einstein from the stands, and I'm upset for them.

And it is kind of about winning or losing, but even more about winning or losing fairly.


Touche. That's VERY hard for me to say in most cases.

Re: Sabotage
 

This. It's meant to be a simple lighthearted view of the situation. Laughter is the best medicine. I, for one, am really healthy after this video. That was a lame way to put it.


I wish I was going to IRI to catch the live debut of this song. And I really wanna over analyze the Sgt. Pepper cover for secrets...

Re: Sabotage
 

Well, shows what I know...

Ozzy Kamen's ability to emulate Ad Rock's...distinctive...sound, I think it's a good thing. I don't think this is a topic that should necessarily be brushed aside or forgotten, and things like this spread the word across a group that doesn't always get (or read) FIRST emails. Start rapping about sabotage or have some odd iPhone wallpaper, and you create opportunities to tell the story again.

Of course nobody in FIRST thinks this is a joke, and there are some that have grounds to be even less amused. (I know I wasn't reading the report.) But for all the high costs of Einstein this year (not just financial ones, either), we need to ensure the message reaches down to all the nooks and crannies.

Re: Sabotage
 

In my experience, I've found that being outraged on behalf of others is often a misuse of energy.

This is a calculated risk by DSK. As a topical parody act, there is a level of expectation that they will tackle this issue. This isn't their first foray into controversial issues ("No students built that robot!" comes hilariously to mind). I'd wager they ran this idea past the 12 teams before making it public.

As far as loss goes - some teams missed a fair chance at getting a blue banner. Three exceptional and deserving teams earned a blue banner. Net loss in overall team blue-bannerage: 0.

Let's look at DSK - namely the lead singer, Ozzy. What happened at STL and throughout the season was, in a word, embarrassing. The livelihood of Ozzy, his family, his friends and their families depend on FIRST not being embarrassing, and on Ozzy's establishing and maintaining great relationships with hundreds of teams and suppliers. As far as losses go, I'd say members of DSK stand to lose the most by the Einstein debacle, and by treating it inappropriately. If they're willing to look back with a bit of humor, good on them. They need healing too. To them, this isn't blue banners to hang on the wall - it's food on their kids' plates.

For those that were directly involved in the events that happened in April, you certainly have every right to be outraged, for an indefinite amount of time. As one of the major players said, it sucks, and it sucks big time, and it will never not suck. But let's let people determine their own reactions, and let's not get indignant at a comedy act when it does something funny.

Re: Sabotage
 

I'm just grateful that the band could pick themselves up off the ground without splitting their pants.

Have a great concert at IRI, guys!

Jane

Re: Sabotage
 

One thing I'd like to point out: the song is a very angry song, and the lyrics were written to match that anger. The song is definitely intended to convey a sense of anger that was felt by the community.

The video, on the other hand, is something completely different. If you're familiar with the original, the Beastie Boys wrote a very angry song and set a really funny video behind it (a parody of 70's cop dramas). The concept of angry song / funny video is kind of weird to me, tbh. The band thought it would be fun to do a parody of the original video, making it a parody of a parody. Of course it had to be really whacky and outlandish, because that's how DSK usually rolls.

If you think that laughter is the best medicine, then enjoy the video. Getting someone to smile when they're down can be helpful.

If you feel you're not ready to smile and you have some anger and frustration to let out, then cover the top 3/4 of the video (or scroll so you only see the bottom) and let it out by screaming along to the words on the bottom. Angry music can be therapeutic as well.

Re: Sabotage
 

Chris, your post made me think this:

DSK is edgy and makes a point by being very cool, very nerdy, and very edgy - all at the same time. It's that brilliance factor.

Jane

Re: Sabotage
 

Rage.

That's what the song conveys - according to my wife. She overheard it while getting ready for work this AM. She wasn't watching and she doesn't want to hear it again. (No offense to DSK's musicality intended)

As Chris says, blocking out the video eliminates any comedic sense to "Sabotage." There is nothing funny about what happened on Einstein.:mad:

"Why?!"

This is what the FRC community is really struggling with. The individual who did this has scarred us. Maybe he didn't think about that or didn't care. If he comes out and offers an explanation, it most likely won't be very satisfying. Is "just to prove a point" going to sit well with anyone?

"Resignation" might be all we'll ever hear from this individual.

Re: Sabotage
 

Completely agree, have some fun and get off the CD soap-box that everybody likes to get up on when anything that could remotely be considered as "offensive" or "insensitive" is posted.

Re: Sabotage
 

Yes, you're right. 4 days was more than enough time for us to get over having our entire team's goals, hopes, and dreams for the season crushed.

You'll have excuse us if we don't join in the comic relief.

Just because someone is a highly esteemed member of the community, does not mean they are not capable of being an insensitive jerk. This is something that I will have no problem discussing with them in person this weekend.





I am getting very tired of people telling us that we should laugh this off. Were you there on Einstein? No. Did you have your robot disabled on the biggest stage in FIRST? No. Did you have to explain to a room full of your students that someone sabotaged everything they had worked towards this season? No. Did you have to explain to your employer why they should continue to grant you time off to attend competitions, and continue to support your team even after this debacle? No. Do you have any idea what we have been through? No!

Yes, we are angry. No, we will not laugh about this, and No, we will not sit idly by while someone makes a mockery of what happened on Einstein.

What we would appreciate, is if people would stop trying to make light of what happened, and give us the time we need to deal with this in our own way. We are simply not ready to laugh about this yet, and we likely never will be. The guilty party still hides in anonymity, and until they come forward and accept what they did, we will likely never have closure.

Would you be able to laugh it off if someone went into your pit and tore out your electrical system before the biggest matches of your season? Would you be so quick to "suck it up" if someone then made a music video about it?

We would like to laugh, just not about this. This is the last you will hear from 2056 on this subject.

Re: Sabotage
 

I apologize if what I'm about to say comes off a little crass to much of the CD community.

Where to we get off telling those teams how they should handle the situation? None of us were in the position of the 12 Einstein teams during these events. None of us stood behind those alliance stations and watched as the clock ticked to to the end of a very special event in a team's career that MIGHT happen every few years, IF YOU'RE EXTREMELY LUCKY.

Dreams weren't torn from our hands like they were for those teams. People keep telling the Einstein teams to "chill out", try to get them to stop making such a big deal out of it. It is a big deal. Yes, FIRST isn't about the robots. It's about inspiring the students and building the future. But there are those of us whose passion for this organization runs blood deep. If I were in Tyler's, or Karthik's, or any of the Einstein team's position, I know I'd be furious. And I'd probably be extremely offended if someone were to tell we to "laugh it off" or "suck it up". Tyler has told us of how he had to stand in front of a room of students, parents and sponsors and tell them that all their hard work was for naught at the hands of someone who intentionally targeted their robot. I don't know what that would feel like. But I know I wouldn't be able to say it without tears in my eyes.

Those teams have had dreams stolen from them. IRI is a great place to compete, but it will no where near make up for the pain these teams have experienced. Dreams shattered. Spirits broken. Hopes smashed. How on Earth can anyone be justified in in telling them to not be upset at the situation?

Of course, I wasn't there either, so what do I know?

Re: Sabotage
 

I'm not going to comment on the video, but I really enjoyed the photoshopped album covers. Especially this one: http://i.imgur.com/B252A.jpg.

Re: Sabotage
 

I'm not gonna speak for others, but my impression is a lot of the "laugh it off" comments in this thread were directed towards those NOT affiliated with the "Einstein 12". IMO, it is understandable for them to feel offended by this, but there's no reason for everyone else NOT involved with those teams to be completely hurt by this.

And Andy, $@#$@#$@#$@#, that was a bold post to write, but it's sad to see what this is doing to the FIRST community.

Re: Sabotage
 

If you think that being interfered with on Einstein makes your incredibly successful season a waste then you need to seriously redefine your definition of success. No one is saying suck it up, they are saying to appreciate all the amazing successes you did have. The fact that you didn't get to play to your full potential does not take away from the successes your team already had, the fact that you made it to Einstein already says enough to the fact that your team was great.

I know that this sounds harsh and insensitive,and I apologize for that, but I seriously think that devaluing your whole season over this is hurting your team more than it helps. You should celebrate your amazing season.

Re: Sabotage
 

Agreed.


Also agreed.

But frankly, I'd rather be able to tell the parents, sponsors, and students that the team was intentionally targeted as opposed to returning to them and only being able to say "Whelp, FIRST has no idea what happened. We're SOL. Better luck next year?" To me, the connotation of "intentionally targeted" is "we were so good, that someone felt they had to resort to underhand tactics to beat us".

I'm not going to tell any team that went through what the 12 did to "suck it up", but I do think that they should step back and look at what they did. They made phenomenal robot and throughout the build process I'm sure that every student on all 12 teams learned something valuable this season. I feel that everyone can walk away from the situation knowing that they built (or funded) a first class robot that was capable of making it to Einstein, which is something most teams (and sponsors) can't say.

Re: Sabotage
 

This. This x 1000.

To the majority of CD: we weren't on Einstein. We didn't have to go through this. To us (and excuse me for oversimplifying), it's like "hey, this crazy dude caused a bunch of other people's robots to die on the field. well that inhales audibly for them." However easy it is for us to shake off the recent events, it's infinitely harder for them. It was their blood, sweat, and tears that went into building something so glorious, but it was unfairly torn from them. Let me try and draw an imperfect parallel. Think of your grandpa, who fought in WWII. Many soldiers have some home never to speak of what happened again - it's too painful for them to recall and most people can't even fathom what they went through. However, he's perfectly able to talk with his fellow veterans about their shared experiences. Now I'm not relating the events on Einstein to global war, but I think the my point is valid: that these teams have gone through something most of us never will, and we simply are incapable of accurately judging the situation.
Sure, we can laugh it off as a bad luck or what have you, but their reactions show just how important FIRST is to them; they breathe it. And none of us should fault them for caring on such an emotional level. Let's give them space and support them as best we can. Some things take time to heal. This is something that will take lots.

To Karthik, Tyler, others on Einstein: Thank you for caring. Like I said above, I have no idea what you're going through, but it has to be a hellish experience. The amount of grace and class you've showed in response to this is outstanding, but that doesn't reduce the severity of what transpired. Celebrate the awesome things that happened, and endure through the bad. However, I offer my (insignificant) apologies and condolences.

To Andy: too soon, man, too soon.

Re: Sabotage
 

Okay, I think this is obviously a subject that is still a little touchy for quite a few folks on both sides. I'm going to close this thread to let things cool down a little.