[FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

FTC has released the robot portion of the game manual.

Wow, those are some big changes! I'll be curious as to how it shakes out as to what constitutes a "raw material" and what does not. Off the top of my head, wooden robots would seem to be legit. As would robots machined out of an 18x18x18 billet of Aluminum. Or Steel. Or pretty much whatever.

And welding is no longer prohibited.

Wow.

Comments?

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

I don't know much about FTC, but wow, this is a big change indeed. I can see a lot of both good and bad that will come from this. Hopefully more good than bad. It'll be interesting to see if this change impacts program growth one way or another. One nice thing is that FTC has differentiated itself from Vex now in the sense that it's not "just a kit you put together" (as I've heard some folks say). I like Vex, but there is something to be said for making things from raw materials.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

There are also lazy susans and linear slides as COTS parts.

Also. Hang on. Am I reading this right? There is no dimensional constraints? _ At All!_ ?

And if thats true, we can use AL Block? :O This is going to be _so much fun_

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Excepting the starting size of the robot, that is what I'm seeing. The servo blocks are also a nice addition.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Oh my.

Still I want steel gears inside our servos, not garbage plastic stuff.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

I hate it. One of the best things about FTC back in the Vex days, and one of the highly emphasized portions of the competition, is that you only needed hand tools to build a competitive robot. A hacksaw and a file was literally all you needed to build an FTC robot that could win the World Championship - it was a pure "smarts" challenge and resources didn't come into play at all. This made it the perfect competition for schools without machine shops with basically no barrier to entry other than cost.

What is the program now? Certainly not that. In my mind, if you want advanced machining you go to FRC.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Since I'm not sure what FIRST has in mind for the future of FTC, I'm open to the possibility that the removal of materials restrictions is a good thing. It certainly does set FTC apart from VRC in a tangible way—and that may be just what FTC needs to stay relevant.

As for the rules, they're unfortunately ambiguous, self-contradictory and possibly redundant, particularly with regard to the way the numerous clauses of <R02> are to be interpreted (and reconciled with each other and <R01>).

And of course, since extruded aluminum is available in some rather hefty profiles, expect to see some fancy CNC-milled robots this year. We might also see some fun castings and composite layups, if teams are feeling especially creative.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

I wonder what the ruling will be for using a Rapid Protyping machine (3D Printer) to fabricate parts. After all, the raw materials for our 3D printer is a spool of 1/16th diameter ABS "rod".

As to whether allowing machining and Rapid Prototyping would be a bad thing... We've built some VERY sophisticated metal robots just using drill press, jig saw and disk sander. Would a team that has access to more sophisticated tools automatially build a better robot than us? I think not.

Since the requirement is for these team's students to learn how to effectivly use these tools, and use CAD to design, I don't see how it's an automatic slam dunk. There is a lot of extra work required to use these tools effectivly. That learning is a VERY good thing.

Phil.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Though I don't dabble in FTC too much, I gotta agree with Chris. This just makes it look like a small FRC, and will give an advantage to those with the capabilities to abuse these new rules. I used to build VRC/FTC bots when I was younger just for fun, just with the kit. I hope this doesn't turn FTC into the small FRC I see it to be.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

The big (HUGE) difference between FTC and FRC (I coach both) is that:

FRC is all about students working with Engineers and Manufacturing firms with the stated assumption that these firms will be providing manufacturing support so that the students can work side-by-side with these industry professionals in their normal environment. In several FRC kickoffs, Woodie has said that FRC Teams that insist that the students do everything without working closely with industry partners "aren't getting it".

Where as in FTC (and FLL) the students are meant to do all the work. That's why they have much more time to do it, and everything is scaled down. So unless the teams break the spirit of this difference, FTC won't turn into FRC.

I also think that there is this assumption that having better tools automatically makes a team's robot better. The reverse is true, better tools usually place higher demands on student and mentor training: eg: CAD to produce drawings, and student design ability to conceve of a part well enough to create an accurate drawing.

Sure, better tools will enable a good team to do even better. But based on many robots I've seen at competitions, many teams are struggling with even the most basic tools. Giving them a CNC machine would NOT help.

This is one reason what we've chosen to add a Robot clinic to the front of our FTC Qualifier this year, with the goal of ensuring that every team that attends has a solid working foundation, to build on during the remainder of the season.

Phil.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

While all these points are really good, I'd like to add something serious.

While FTC teams have slowly been getting the ability to use more than the standard kit parts very slowly over the last few years. I think that the reason is to allow for a larger range of designs that aren't limited to the insane constraints of tetrix parts. Because lets face it Tetrix kit can do amazing things as we all have seen that, but as a kit its very limited, and also very expensive as we all have seen as well. Allowing teams to have a range of materials to pick from allows them to find cheaper alternatives, I personally like this approach because it doesn't always break the bank.

Allowing flexibility to the materials last year did some insane things, 20 foot lifts? Thats astonishing. Teams did alot with what they were given, and alot of teams realized that precision machining was a serious option, if not a absolute option to have a lift that goes up 20 feet without falling over.

While there are pros and cons to the decision to allow such flexibility, I think I can stand safe by my words when I said that FTC will soon start having larger amounts of custom parts, and precision machining, its been worming its way in back since Hotshot at least.

But alas the decision has been made, and its something I can certainly live with.

- Andrew

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Lots of thoughtful discussion. I remain baffled by the raw material definition:

"Raw Material (e.g. metal, plastic, etc.) provided that it is readily available to all teams from standard distributors (e.g. McMaster-Carr, Home Depot, Grainger, etc.). The definition of Raw Material are items before being processed or manufactured into a functional form."

A tree would seem to be a raw material but what about a 2 x 4? I can argue either way.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

2x4s are rarely sold in 18" lengths (or any other length that would fit within the starting box). You could get it cut at the store, but the receipt shows that you bought a 10 foot 2x4 (because you did). In other words, a 2x4 is not in a functional form until you cut and drill it to fit your specific application. At least that is how I interpret it.

What about gear stock? That has to be cut and drilled. Or what about a gear without any whole patterns? There definitely needs to be more clarification about what "raw material" means.

Re: [FTC]: Unlimited raw materials. Welding. Wow!
 

Up until now, raw material seemed to imply a circular or rectangular cross section, with at least one dimension constraned to less than 1/8" or 1/16".

If the dimension restriction goes away, then we're left with any solid material with a circular or rectanglar cross section.

Of course lead-screw violates this, but I suppose it's an extension of the "Fastner" caveat,

but then.... what about angle, and tubular stock...

It does seem like it's going to be hard to know for sure what is a raw material.....