Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Check out this latest headline
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/l...3ecc33ea8.html

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

This is terrible! :eek: Are there any loopholes in the ordinance? Anything we can do? I'd hate to see such a team end its FRC career like this.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Wow, that's terrible. Sadly it looks like there probably isn't a loophole, other than flat out eliminating the law/ordinance...

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

:ahh: My jaw absolutely dropped. FIRST just wouldn't be the same without the legendary Team Hammond. 4 time World Champions just don't come along all that often.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

With a team that legendary, I'd tend to think that SOMEBODY would be willing to sponsor them. Hopefully they can find a new sponsor to keep the team going.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

I hope the fine folks on 71 find a way to make it happen. You don't win four world titles and not develop some roots in the community.

That said: Remember kids, if it can happen to Team Hammond, it can happen to you. Always have a continuity plan for situations like this.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

This is truly devastating for team 71 and it's students. Let's hope something happens in their favor soon! I hope their amazing legacy contributes to them getting a major sponsor. They are truly one of the greatest teams in FIRST.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Another example of overzelous government officials intruding on the people. I hope the kids and team can find funding, if the ordinance cant be overturned.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Is it particularly overzealous for a democratic government to respond to a perceived problem by enacting an ordinance? There's a fair debate to be had about the effectiveness of this ban at combatting theft by scavengers (which appears to be the impetus for the law), but as an imposition on "the people" in general, it's trivial at best. While the ban may have a significant negative impact on Beatty Mfg. in particular, it nevertheless strikes me as somewhat manipulative for the company to tie the fortunes of tne town's prized robotics program to this thoroughly mundane political dispute. If they think that advances the objectives of the company (particularly in the short term, if they don't have much cash on hand) then it's their prerogative to do so. I just hope they're prepared to deal with the longer-term social ramifications of their gamesmanship.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Although I can't pretend to know all the details in play here, it does seem a little odd that this is is being presented as an "all or nothing" scenario. Surely a company that has such a long history with FRC, and such a close relationship with their team, can find a way to continue to provide some support, even if cuts have to be made. Surely in a turbulent economy, similar challenges have been faced and overcome before.

No matter what happens though, I hope team Hammond finds a way to continue providing the inspiring dominance to FRC as only they can.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Forget for a moment the world championships. Forget the amazing robots. Imagine that it boils down to just another FRC team shutting down. That... is unacceptable in any circle.

Bring back in the years and years of legacy, the awards, the robots, the championships. And FRC could be losing one of the greatest teams of all time. A team that, over 15 years, has inspired at least hundreds of students on the team with the message of FIRST, and, with their legacy of domination and outstanding performances, have inspired students, mentors and teams as a whole through out the FIRST world. Not just the City of Hammond. Now just the State of Indiana. Not just the United States of America. Not just North America. 71 has inspired teams worldwide with their standard of excellence. And to lose that. To cut that legacy off. It would be tragedy.

If there is any way the FIRST community can help, I hope it is made known sooner rather than later. I'd put in the effort if it meant one of the most inspiring teams in FIRST could keep on inspiring.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Not making a slight to any other team, but if there ever was a team that FIRST and their leading bodies would ever need to jump in for and try to keep alive, I think most would say 71 has earned that right.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Keep fighting Hammond. We all hope Team 71 will find a way to get by. I don't think tragedy can describe what would happen if Hammond lost its team.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Having known the many of the mentors, students, and parents of 71 for years I can say that both myself and my family were heartbroken at the thought of them dissolving.

But then I remembered, they aren't a team that will just sit by and be railroaded by something like this, and we aren't a community that will let that happen to any team, four world Championships or not. I have full faith that Team 71 will persevere and come back next year with a robot built of PVC that is a force to be reckoned with. You can take part of a team's funding away, but you cannot take away the will of a community to better their youth, or a team's drive to win.

A team isn't who funds it. A team is the people who are on it, and I am hard pressed to find better people than those on 71. I look forward to seeing them next year.

-Kelli

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Tristan,
On the surface it would certainly look this way. However, in the context of the surrounding area, this ordinance serves nothing but to suppress local business people. Hammond is completely surrounded by other urban areas, notably Chicago, Calumet City, Gary and Munster. So much so that it helps form a continuous urban industrial corridor bordered on Lake Michigan that extends from the Wisconsin border to the Indiana Dunes National Seashore. It has two Interstate Highway systems running through the city and it's western boundary forms the border with Illinois. This ordinance will do nothing to stop the scavengers. It will merely close down businesses, jobs and tax revenue. Certainly this is a complex issue for Hammond and other urban centers, however, shutting down recycling centers is not, in my opinion, a viable response to the problem.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

FIRST has sat by and watched Hall of Fame teams go dark for on reason or another and done nothing. There will be no bailout coming. Sadly 71 is on their own.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

What other HoF teams have faced a similiar situation to this and not come out the other side?

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Preliminary comparison of HoF vs TBA shows Team 22 (HoF 2001) not having played since 2006. I did not check to see if there were playing lapses in the other teams who did play this year.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Keep in mind that for some "Blow your mind" reason, 71 is not a HoF team. Thus their sorely missed absence from St Louis this year.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Lets also keep in mind that teams quit FRC for more reasons than just sponsorship. Some teams may decide to leave FRC for something they view as more challenging. Schools could pull their support, closing the team. The students in the school might not have enough interest in joining the team to keep the team alive.

IMO, sponsorship is the easiest one for FIRST to help a team solve, if the team really needs it and lets FIRST know they need help. As it stands, there are people around the country who spend enormous amounts of time helping find new sponsorship for teams. I know that's how my company (and then me) got involved with my team. That's also how a lot of teams in Minnesota get to Champs - through the work of those volunteers making phone calls starting the minute the team earns themselves a berth. When we made it to Champs in 2011, We knew where most of the funding for the trip was going to come from before we had even packed up the robot.

I'm confident that a great team like this will be able to find alternate sources of funding for their team, and that they won't be afraid to ask their regional FIRST volunteers and staff for assistance if they really need it.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

I know, but I have always just called them a HoF team becuase they represent every quality of one. That and the fact that I think once you win atleast 3, in 71's case they have 4, world championships you deserve a HoF spot. People may disagree with my belief in that but we must remember that even though the main purpose for FIRST isnt the competition, but it is key in the minds of students who join and particiapte and the fact it is the one thing that can unite students by.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

May I play devil's advocate momentarily? I certainly can't dispute your extensive knowledge of their geography, but I did want to offer the City Council's side. For instance:

• "Gleason [Streets Department Commissioner] estimated city workers scrapping the material would generate between $50,000 to $100,000 per year for the city's general fund." Note I don't have the full story on general fund uses, but I did find an article that mentions having to potentially lay off teachers, charge insurance companies for ambulance mileage, and close redevelopment areas, all in just the past few months. I know nothing more than linked, but maybe this is the lesser of evils?
• "...It becomes a huge drain on my [speaks the Hammond Police Chief] manpower ... while taking care of those problems, we're not taking care of businesses and residences.”And "We have numerous incidents of subjects portraying to be scrappers stealing from yards and garages or casing houses for further crimes" According to NeighborhoodScout, Hammond has a significantly higher crime rate than Bloomington and Evansville (didn't check others). Again, if you're one of these more likely victims of violent crime in Hammond (whose violent crime rate is 1 in 121; Indiana is 1 in 318), maybe you consider it worth the tradeoff?

I'm not saying they've handled it in the best way possible. (Actually, I really don't think they did.) Just that there's always more to the story.


As far the 71 itself, not to mention the well-respected Beatty International, I hope they can put this all in context (whatever the correct context is) and pull through. We'll definitely miss this should-be HOF if they can't make it, but something tells me they will!

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that Beatty Mfg would drop all support of the team. I can see that the money could be going away, but why would their subsidiary closing have any effect on their ability to donate labor and engineering support? Perhaps the article isn't nuanced enough to make the distinction.

I hate to judge the situation without knowing all the facts, but it seems like the robotics team may have become the pawn in a political dispute.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

I also am hesitant to put words down on this without at all knowing the full story, but I agree with your confusion. It just doesn't make sense to me to play it in such a hardline fashion. It just feels very political.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

We shall see and all we can do is hope that 71 continues in FRC through finding other financial resources. None of us know how much Beatty contributed to team 71 year to year financially. This happens to a lot of FRC team and it can still happen to yours.

Considering no one here lives in the city of Hammond it is hard to weigh in on what is going on there. It sounds like there are two distinct sides of this destroying small business but the scrapyard could be contributing to a large amount of theft/crime for people looking to make a quick dollar in this rough economy.

Every decision has a good and bad side and unfortunately the bad side here hurts team 71. Good luck guys!

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

The 1993 winner is long gone.

---

My guess to why there wasn't a reason to keep them alive at all costs is that they probably figure that if a team made the HoF, then they are probably able to find thier way out of the problem by whatever means. What often times gets teams into the HoF IS getting out of such jams.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Team 144 was disbanded and the mentor leadership started 1038. 144 has come back this year.
23 took 10 years off.
22 left and became team 4.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

Another factor (bigger, in my opinion) is then you get into the slippy slope of bailing out all failing teams and then teams that don't *need* money wanting their share.

The Midwest Regional (and all of FIRST) wouldn't be the same without 71. I'm not going to base conclusions off one article, but I hope they can find a way to compete next year.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

It would be more accurate to say that 22 split into 4 and 22 (both of which competed in 2006); after 2006, 22 did not return.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

It seems to me that the company would have to pull their financial support of the team, that's how I read it anyway. 50-100k is a lot of capital for most companies, losing that income is pretty serious.

It's a tough lesson in diversifying team income sources. It is great to have one main sponsor that covers every expense, but it is not a risk-averse business model.

As someone who works at a small company I am very glad that we have 2-3 major clients because it is very rare that all of them will be out of work for us. I have seen bigger companies disband, seemingly over night, if they lose work from their sole client.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

I find it interesting that the money would be going into the towns "general fund". If I was 71 - I'd be approaching my city about a plausible sponsorship. For a program that brings so much publicity to the town, I would think the City could throw some of that 71's way.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

This is why I have been preaching sponsor diversification to my team for the past year. Because if you only have a few sponsors that each hash out a large sum/yr, and one or more take a hit, you're screwed. Teams that have more sponsors than people are the teams with eternal staying power.

Maybe this will serve as a lesson to other successful teams to prepare. I know my own team was this dependent with Ford and had moderate success, and when Ford pulled sponsorship on us for a year, we went into a debt that we still haven't climbed out of.

Re: Local government ordinance hampers Beatty finances.
 

I truly hope that Team 71 can find a way to continue and that the Beatty family is somehow able to still provide support.

Sustainability is such a tough issue that cant be avoided when doing such an expensive and time consuming program. Teams almost have to reinvent themselves constantly, much the same way in robot prototyping/construction if they want to experience continued success.

However, nothing lasts forever.
As a HOF team, I know that at some point before I leave the school, we have to find someone to take over, much the same way as our current mentors who are almost all retired.
Transitioning to new mentors and/or new sponsors that you are accustomed to, is much much harder than trying to build robots year after year. We have been transitioning year after year on the sponsorship part, getting as much as we can and diversifying where and what we support in our program.