Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

"A vote says more about the voter than the thing they're voting on."
Your ranking of 2003 above 2007, 2011, and 2005 is a... striking statement.


QFT.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

Since my Freshman year:

1) Rebound Rumble
2) Logomotion
3) Overdrive
4) Rack & Roll
5) Lunacy
6) Breakaway

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I love game ranking! I'll play...

1 - 2000 "Coopertition FIRST" - Still holds strong to the top spot at the greatest game ever in my opinion. To this day, I have never seen an elimination tourney at championships with more excitement. The ability to descore a major game piece and put it in your own goal, despite the difficulty of the action...unparalleled. It is going to take one heck of a game to top that one in my eyes.

2 - 1999 "Double Trouble" - While the portion of the games where teams picked up and scored "Floppies" was not as exciting, the rest of the game made up for it. Battles for the top of the puck, a team suddenly yanking the puck across the field to double their score. The puck, by far in my opinion, was the greatest game element ever created by a FIRST GDC. I would love more than anything to see it return.

3 - 2012 "Rebound Rumble" - It took some thought to put this game here over Aim High, but in the end I had to. I personally judge how good a game is by how bored I get announcing by the end of championships. This year, to this day, I am still not bored of this game. The strategy involved in this game in incredibly dynamic. The risk/reward element is such a heavy part of this game, that it keeps you on your toes at every moment. Any game in which you have the opportunity for a last second game swing is huge...when that last second game swing involves a possibility of your robot ending up in a heap of scrap at the bottom of a teeter-totter bridge as a result of a missed balance, well, then you have a winner in my book!

4 - 2006 "Aim High" - This one is here for many of the same reasons as Rebound Rumble. Fast paced, complex strategy, never boring. The reason it did not end up as number 3? Simple...no crashing robots from a failed balance. Other than that, one of the best ever.

5 - 2004 "First Frenzy" - OK...so this was a tough one because I also loved the 2007 game. The edge that this game gets? Simple. One of the best single plays in FIRST history took place that year... River Rage 2004: The Pole Vault This game had it all...hanging, scoring, defense, falling robots, tumbling balls from a container, creativity in designs...it was pretty awesome.

Rounding out what would be my top 10 in order would be

6 - 2007 "Rack n Roll"
7 - 2005 "Triple Play"
8 - 1996 "Hexagon Havoc
9 - 2011 "Logo Motion"
10 - 1997 - "Torroid Terror"

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I was/am/and will continue to be a big Fan of 2005 Triple Play. I love the tic-tac toe scoring bonus. Auton was OK. I think with the improvements to the vision system, it would better. I feel this game is way underrated, and if brought back (in some form) would be a real pleaser. The OCCRA 2011 game is a variant I really think could have some legs in FRC.

Rebound rumble was much better than I expected when the game got anounced. I initially thought the scoring in a flat hoop would be too difficult for teams to do effectively. I am glad I was wrong. In general, the game suffered a bit from too much scoring in auton and endgame, and not enough scoring in the middle. I am not sure how I would adjust the values though.

As far as the bridge, this was probably the most exciting endgame element from a spectators perspective. Usually I am very frustrated watching teams struggle to drive up a ramp, or having difficulty docking to a pole or ... Charlie Browing on the bridges was exciting. All of the triple doubles and double triples at MSC was also a big thrill. Muc more exciting than the minibot race.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

Based on Games I have seen live (prefaced with my status on the team to show a frame of mind):

2007 Rack N' Roll: My rookie year and I absolutely loved the game coming in the moving rack, the inflatable tubes, and balancing on a robot at the end were all great. The exponential scoring was also a nice touch though I will admit not the most spectator friendly.

2012 Rebound Rumble: My first game as the full time coach and I had a blast. The main complaints of the co-op bridge never effected us to badly and only one match we had an issue of no one wanting to co-op. The scoring was simple and balanced, the end game was exciting without being overly complicated and upsets were a lot more common then previous games

2006 Aim High: Attending Mission Mayhem inside on the tiny field made this game a lot more fun to me ironically but more importantly the obvious Big Brother to rebound rumble had several things I would love to see return, the offensive and defensive times, more game pieces then could almost ever be used, and ramps (if not obvious for some reason I am very much a fan of ramp games :D )

2011 Logomotion: My first game as part time coach and I feel Rack N' Roll's descendant was a great game but not as good as the first for a few reasons. First the positives the multiple shape inflates was great to see and did make almost all teams not just repeat their 2007 designs, the field being mostly open made for great games to watch, and the game pieces making the logo worth more was the best aspect. The bad: scoring blocking your view of the field for the end game made it more challenging but not in a fun way, and the mini-bot race was not spectator or sometimes field friendly, it was sometimes hard to watch from the stands and the field to determine the winner and while the engineering impressed me it was over so fast sometimes you didn't get to see it.

2005 Triple Play: The first FIRST game I saw and I was hooked the tetras were awesome and the scoring was simple though I will admit from the stands a little challenging to figure out if you didn't pay attention the whole time, I feel this game would have ranked higher had I participated in the build season but I was 13 at the time so that couldn't happen.

2009 Lunacy: The game I became Team Captain (the last one on my team) and the game I became a full time field member, I loved the open field and regolith, the fact that the scoring locations were attached to robots, and the super cells were great. This would rank a lot higher if several games didn't devolve into pile ups in the middle of the field which slowed down the pace for me

2008 Overdrive: My second active year and I became the lead scout. This game was slowed down do to a lack of defensive play and there was a lot of field pieces blocking the view from the stands.

2010 Breakaway: My senior and last year as a student and this is my least favorite game how ever I will freely admit that I feel this game would have ranked higher without some of the team dynamics that occurred. The scoring was to low for my taste, with matches easily ending in ties of 0-0 and robot to robot interactions were sometimes limited to 1 on 1 but event though it was my least favorite it was still an exciting game and I wouldn't call it "bad"

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I'm going to have to go with 1996, Hexagon Havoc, as the best game ever.

Rebound Rumble was pretty good, top half..

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

Food for thought: Would Lunacy have been significantly better on carpet? That would, in theory, increase robots' ability to get out of the "pile ups" that slowed down the game.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

No, it would have been worse. Lunacy was a very weird game but it was built for the flooring.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I liked Rebound Rumble, but it wasn't my all time favourite. I'm only going to comment on games I've competed in.

1. Breakaway:

This tops my list. While it was tough to be good at the top tier, this incredibly difficult yet simple game was balanced enough that anyone who could push a ball around with a kitbot theoretically could have been competitive. I thoroughly enjoyed this game; but only after it was fixed after week 1.

2. Rebound Rumble:

Rebound rumble was another fast paced, fun game. While it combined a few "mixed-bag" ideas from games of the past, it provided much entertainment, and was again a tough and super competitive game.

3. FIRST Overdrive:

FIRST Overdrive will always have a special place in my heart, as it was my rookie year, and my first year at the field. While I personally think it was far too penalty-ridden, it still made for a fun and interesting challenge.

4. Logomotion:

This resides at the bottom of my list for one very simple reason. Minibots. All it turned into was a freaking spending war. The rules were so loose that the more resources you had, the faster the minibot was. While my teammates and I enjoyed much success with Logomotion, I have enjoyed other games more.

I won't talk about Lunacy. That year still stings.

-Nick

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I think that when you talk about the "best game" for FRC, you may want to divide the field of games up into two, if not three, sections.

There are the "every bot for himself" games of the 1990s (1992-1998). Those, I can't comment on, as I only have a vague idea of most of them.

There are the Alliance games (1999-present). That group can be further divided into 2v2 and 3v3. 2001's 4v0 is in a class by itself, but it's still an alliance game--and, IMO, at the bottom of the list.

Of the 2v2 (1999-2004, 2001 excepted), I'd have to go with:
2004--the strategic cycle of small, doubler, bar is tough to beat.
2000--Simple, but tough.
1999--Multipliers are key, but getting them is tough.
2002--Good balance between goals and balls in terms of points, but don't get old-timers started on the tape measures.
2003--That ramp was worth way too much.

Of the 3v3 (2005 and onwards)... Well, in no particular order, but generally high to low: Breakaway, Rebound Rumble, Rack 'n' Roll, Triple Play, Aim High, LogoMotion, Overdrive, Lunacy.

Best overall: Undecided. Each game has its good points and bad. I'd probably take the top 2 of the 3v3s and the top 3 of the 2v2s (in my list) and call those top 5, no order.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

2004 still my favorite one! :D

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

My listing of the games I've personally been part of (08-12)

1. 2008 - FIRST Overdrive: I think Overdrive was the most entertaining game I've ever seen played. First off, it was an intuitive game for the public to watch. Balls go up, score goes up. The autonomous was one of my favorites, as you'd either see a robot expertly maneuver the track, or you'd see a collision. No lose in my book! Game play was fun to watch. It may have been a little linear with the flow of the game, but seeing how teams devised to hurdle balls always fascinated me. The end game may have been a bit dry, but it certainly had it's moments.

2. 2012 - Rebound Rumble: The 2012 game ran a close second to Overdrive and was almost third. I found the game exciting at all levels, qualification and eliminations, regionals and champs. An autonomous and teleoperated period that were similar, yet exciting, earning cheers from the crowd if a team was able to sink a full stream of balls. The simple scoring rules made it a great audience game. The frosting on the cake was the endgame. An extremely exciting end game that would either end in triumph or crushing defeat. Amazing game all around.

3. 2011 - Logomotion: The only thing that draws Logomotion down from the #1 or #2 spot is the often "dead-matches", where robots would perform at a heart breakingly low level. Missed ubertubes, numbers of logo pieces I could count on the number of suns in the sky, no or slow minibot races. Especially at the earlier regionals, these happened more often than I liked. But overall, I enjoyed the robot, elevation and acquisition system designs, as well as the entirety of teleoperated. I just loved seeing those tubes go up. It was also nice to have (close to) real-time scoring, and a visual of how well an alliance it doing (wall of tubes). Many people criticized the end game for being too over weighted, but I don't really see it.

4. 2010 - Breakaway: I found the action of Breakaway to be much less exciting than many others, almost costing it the #4 spot. While many teams designed and planned for a cross court shootout, many teams didn't consistently shoot/kick from further than the middle field, and most points came from herding balls into goals. The autonomous period was dry to me as well, as it was basically just a headstart on teleoperated (as balls were worth the same points). Breakaway had two saving graces: End game, and strategy. I found the strategy involved in Breakaway fascinating, as you could coordinate how you set up auton, how you played the fields in teleoperated, and how you synced up your end game. I also found the end game of Breakaway exciting, as the robots hoisted themselves up. While some robots snapped themselves up in a blink of excitement, robots than winched up had the crowd on the edge of their seats, seeing if they would make it.

5. 2009 - Lunacy: I have gripes with Lunacy that have yet to be resolved (for example, two friends I know from 1126 were married yesterday. They decided it would be a good idea to have the walkway leading to the ceremony covered with Regolith. I love them dearly, and it was a wonderful wedding, but I'll be darned if carrying that stuff into the trailer after the ceremony didn't bring back painful memories). Lunacy was a unique game, and it was close in many aspects to being great. It just... wasn't. First off, the autonomous mode. It was a trainwreck, which often just ended with 5 robots in a pile up center field, and one who maybe was smart enough to run along the side. Teleoperated was a cat and mouse cluster... never mind... that rarely, but occasionally, had the roles switch. Too often you'd see one robot pin another, just to have a third jump in out of the blue and join the action. I thought the super cells were an interesting addition to the game, probably the only aspect I really enjoyed. Just seeing what teams would do with them. Too bad they often just ended up on the floor. I don't think Regolith was the problem with 09. It was a joint effort by several aspect of the game.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

My top two aren't references to the game itself, but to the impact of the game. By impact, I mean what each did for FIRST culturally and the impact it had on the casual observer. I also know I'm echoing others here with my choices.

2000 - This was the game changer. Coopertition was the game that introduced Coopertition. If you ask me, FRC had the danger of descending into a bitter culture of competition we see all too often in sports had it not been for this game. Also, for everyone who is used to the 3v3 games, the original incrnation of cooperition had the added twist that you didn't know who your partners were when you went to the field during qualifications. The match schedule listed 4 teams, and at the end of the match preceeding yours, you found out who your partner was. A challenge to be sure, but a good one that I feel changed a lot of attitudes in FRC.

2008 - Overdrive was the most intiutively approachable game that I've been involved in. Robots make laps, robots toss balls over the overpass. That's simple, effective, and provided for a variety of designs that solved the game challenge. Also, this was the first year for mandatory bumpers. While the bumpers make the collisions gentler, they also make the field look like a sport. You can see the reds, you can see the blues, and the bumpers are a heck of a lot better than the flags and leds used previously. While 2008 didn't have red and blue bumpers in the rules, more than a few teams decided to make two sets just to look good on their alliances. I'm glad FIRST adopted that convention as it makes for a really sharp scene.

One man's opinion.

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I've witnessed '08 on.
That being said:
1. Logomotion
2. Rebound Rumble.
4. Lunacy/Breakaway
5. Overdrive

Re: Was Rebound Rumble the Best Game Yet?
 

I'm going to go with 2004. So many games thrive at certain levels, but are intolerably boring at others. Breakaway was tremendous on Einstein, but absolutely terrible when low end teams were on the field (remember the countless 0-0 ties?). Lunacy was okay in regionals, but good opponents just led to humans players doing most of the scoring and maybe one good score per robot.

2004, despite it's silly name, was competitive and entertaining at virtually every level. Just about every team could do something, and there were so many different activities and varieties of robots. High end games were exciting and competitive, but low end games would still have points on the board and battles over key resources.