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-   -   FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108212)

Ether 09-09-2012 20:01
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri (Post 1184913)
OK so there was no connection intended to the 1st sentence then.

DampRobot 09-09-2012 21:00
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC9 (Post 1184726)
I would be 100% excited if AM/ gates released a belt line for FRC, and if the belts were a little thinner I would greatly appericeate it.
I'm with you in that belts is the way the more experience teams are going, at least in terms of drive trains, and that it would be great if AndyMark started offering support for belt pullies. However, I'm not sure that most teams (especially rookies) really know how to design a rock solid belt system. Although chains are a bit heavier and less efficient, they sure don't require the same level of expertise to pull off.

David Doerr 09-09-2012 21:30
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1184878)
I'd like to pay Michigan prices and get 2 regionals for less than the price of one. Or continue to get the control system every year in the KoP. Unfortunately life isn't fair. At least FIRST is trying to make the KoP more valuable for as many teams as possible.
Touché!

I seemed to have rubbed people the wrong way and I'm truly sorry for that. I should have waited longer after I read FRC Blogged and then maybe I wouldn't have been so quick to use the "s"-word :)

Yes, we do have it good in Michigan and I'm grateful for that. We have a lot of dedicated people. Not only that - I bet we get our McMaster deliveries faster than you do - one day turn-around with UPS Ground. ;)

It is a good thing that the KOP is becoming more flexible.

rachelholladay 09-09-2012 22:35
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1184878)
Or continue to get the control system every year in the KoP.
So as a Dean's List Winner at the 2012 Suppliers Summit I brought this up. Every year we go through the stress of ordering all the controls components that we need. We would be willing to pay the extra money to get a rookie kit and just get the controls stuff. So I asked Ms. Kate (head of KoP) if there would be any way for veterans to buy rookie kits. Since there is a lot of logistics in ordering parts from companies and setting up inventories she said that (if FIRST were to do that), veterans would have to make that decision in late Spring because that's when the KoP parts of begin to be ordered. Obviously that means that it could not be done for this season but they said they would consider it for next season.

I will note that at the Suppliers Summit us Deans List kids also suggested giving the option to replace parts of the kit with vouchers which would give teams flexibility. We were all pretty excited to see this email because we got the 'Oh-yay-they-listened-to-us' feeling.

BrendanB 09-09-2012 22:44
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Doerr (Post 1184831)
Yes, that is exactly what we have now, except it's not only a driver practice bot, it's a whole-team pre-season practice bot.



I guess I'm one of those people who doesn't like to be forced to do something, even if it's for my own good. ;)

Yes we might be able to repurpose some of our components into superstructure during the season - that was one consideration in choosing what to buy this year. We've tried to be very careful in spending our money so we end up with the most flexible situation next winter in terms of spare parts and COTS items we could use in the winter.



No, that's not it at all. We haven't purchased anything ahead of time we don't plan to use for pre-season learning activity - we couldn't afford to.

We've spent one grueling nine-hour saturday going over the 2012 game and rules so far in a sort of mock kickoff, and we hope to do more of those covering other seasons before the 2013 kickoff. We will do our best to comply with the robot rules - anything we use next winter from our practice bot will be removed and then assembled to our competition robot.



Yes, we're trying to do as much learning as we can pre-season. We have a full, driveable KOP-like base built with a complete control system - HP let us buy a cRIO II using our temporary team number. Team 67 gave us a copy of the 2012 programming software. We'll have a complete pneumatic system when a few more parts are delivered next week.

Thank you all for your responses. I realize your advice is to help a rookie team start off on the right foot.

I do not disagree that a KOP drive base could very well be the best solution for us next winter and that a practice bot would be very useful. I've been very interested in the recent discussion about belts and I've been intending to bring that up with the rest of the team next week. Regarding the voucher though, I would rather have the same flexibility you have to choose - if we need to - to use a voucher on components other than the drivetrain parts we already have - parts we can use for our competition robot's effectors for example, like more jaguars, a gearbox...
That is an interesting position to be in, I do see your point.

As Akash pointed out $450 isn't hard to raise nor is it a lot of money when on an FRC team. Our team raised $3000 after expenses over the course of 3 weeks selling raffle tickets to a Boston Bruins game. We were inspired by another local team who when in need of cash fast raffled two $100 gas cards.

Saberbot 09-09-2012 22:57
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Could a team that elected to receive the hotbot in the fall but doesn't actually use any of it on the robot come build season still count $450 worth of PDV qualified parts as kop?

If so' this would be a pretty easy decision for my "sophomore" team.

artdutra04 09-09-2012 23:10
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberbot (Post 1184957)
Could a team that elected to receive the hotbot in the fall but doesn't actually use any of it on the robot come build season still count $450 worth of PDV qualified parts as kop?

If so' this would be a pretty easy decision for my "sophomore" team.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I would always choose the HOTBOT option.

Akash Rastogi 09-09-2012 23:14
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 (Post 1184962)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I would always choose the HOTBOT option.

Saberbot 09-09-2012 23:16
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 (Post 1184962)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I would always choose the HOTBOT option.
Haha sorry, my smartphone autocorrect isn't literate in FRC lingo.

If hotbot means a chasis built by 67 I would gladly take that option.

JVN 09-09-2012 23:39
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 (Post 1184962)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I would always choose the HOTBOT option.
As the saying goes...
You always pick HOTBOT.

msimon785 10-09-2012 00:00
Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Doerr (Post 1184930)
Touché!

I seemed to have rubbed people the wrong way and I'm truly sorry for that. I should have waited longer after I read FRC Blogged and then maybe I wouldn't have been so quick to use the "s"-word :)

Yes, we do have it good in Michigan and I'm grateful for that. We have a lot of dedicated people. Not only that - I bet we get our McMaster deliveries faster than you do - one day turn-around with UPS Ground. ;)

It is a good thing that the KOP is becoming more flexible.
We get the same thing. Order by 12:00 AM, get it by 3:00 PM the next day. They actually deliver in a McMaster-Carr vehicle to us though :)

On a more general note, I am very in favor of not only FIRST's opportune and advantageous decision to adapt the KOP to various types of teams, but also of its transparency. We asked for it, and sure enough we got it. From Einstein to CMP to the KOP, FIRST is letting us in on the decisions they make and I feel that strongly benefits us both as a community as well as competitively.

With regards to belts, 1515 took FIRST's move as inspiration to finally make the switch from ANSI 35 to GT2. We're probably going to go for 5mm pitch (standardized), and 9 and 15mm widths.


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