FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr.../blog-09-07-12

Kit of Parts Evolution

As FRC continues to grow, we continue to try to find ways to better serve our teams’ needs. Today, we have an exciting announcement regarding the Kit of Parts.

In 2005, the Kit of Parts Drive System was introduced. Since then, based on feedback from the FRC community, the KOP Drive System has evolved, but its overall goal has remained the same: give teams the opportunity to have a working drive system built quickly following Kickoff. However, not every FRC team wants or needs this component of the Kit of Parts. For the 2013 FRC Season, returning teams will have an option! Veteran teams can opt to receive a Product Donation Voucher (PDV) from AndyMark instead of the KOP Drive System at Kickoff. The PDV will be worth $450 and can be used on FRC-specific AndyMark parts, shown here. The option to opt out of the KOP Drive System for the PDV will be available ONLY from 10/1 to 10/18. During that time, the option to receive the PDV in place of the KOP Drive System will be found in the “What’s New” section on the right side bar of the TIMS main screen. NOTE: If teams do not choose to opt out of the KOP Drive System in favor of the PDV by 10/18, they will be automatically by assigned the ‘default’ option of receiving the KoP Drive System as part of their kit as they usually would.

If your team decides to receive the 2013 KOP Drive System, you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012, and with enough material to drive all six wheels. The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction. The estimated final drive speed is about 10 feet per second.

Thanks to our partnership with AndyMark and with a donation from Gates, we are switching from chains to belts to drive the wheels. The KOP Drive System has been designed to be set up as either a six wheel drive “long” robot, or a four wheel drive “wide” robot.

We believe this is a positive change for a number of reasons. The belt system is between 1.5 and 2 pounds lighter than a chain drive system. Belts have also been shown through FRC-specific testing to be a more efficient system than chain drives. The assembly time for the KOP Drive System should also be reduced, since you no longer have to break chain or assemble master links. Chain may provide greater flexibility in design, but we believe, for the stated overall goal for the KOP Drive System, a belt system comes out on top.

In the fall of 2008, FRC team 234, Cyber Blue, did a Design of Experiments study of the differences between belt and chain drive. Kit of Parts Engineer Collin Fultz was a mentor on the team at that time and helped with the experiment. Their final report can be found here. We believe that, with the help of Gates and AndyMark, we have mitigated the largest obstacles a team would face when deciding to use belts.

We are excited about this new opportunity for teams to make the Kit of Parts as valuable as possible and thank AndyMark and Gates for their support in creating this possibility.

I’ll blog again soon.
Frank


The referenced white paper from FRC234 can be found here.

Belt drive CD discussion here.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Looks like IndySAM and I saw it at the same time - feel free to merge/delete one of them.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I win!

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Ah, but did you link CyberBlue's white paper?
Plus, mine has more replies

I win better. :)

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Belts are a VERY good change for the KOP robot. Most of the mechanical misassembly that is done with previous kit bots has been in regards to the chain paths. Whether it was too loose, too tight, mis-aligned, etc. Hopefully with predetermined belt lengths, assembly should be a breeze.

Nicely done FIRST.

-Brando

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

All of the teams that don't use the Kitbot are big winners on this one. Since the PDV are considered KoP items, which don't count against your $3500 robot budget, I think that all of our robot budgets just effectively jumped from $3500 to $3950. This is good news for our team, whcih has been looking at alternative designs that we will probably implement this build season. This eases some of the concerns that I had had over the robot budget restrictions.

It sounds like the teams that do use the Kitbot are big winners, too, because of the lighter drive train and improved buildability.

This is great!!

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

And the teams that don't use the Kitbot in competition but use it as a testbed are also winners--they don't have to build another testbed.


Some good ideas with the KOP the last few years: FIRST Choice, and now this! Wonder what other good ideas they'll come up with...

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Wow! These are great changes.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I think this is an awesome move for FIRST that also hugely benefits teams. From FIRST's perspective, it lets them move a significant chunk of the KoP costs into a voucher, which is much easier for them to modify in future years should they encounter budgetary or donation constraints as the program grows. From a team perspective, it doesn't take anything away from teams who opt not to use the voucher, and it provides a nice chunk of financial support for teams who don't want the KoP chassis.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Awesome news!

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

This change is a winner.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Fantastic news.

FRC: Doing things right now.

-Nick

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

10/1 - 10/18, How do I know whether or not I want to use the kitbot drive system if I don't know what the game is?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Can you use your voucher to buy the parts needed to build a kitbot?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Well you could still use the $450 buy a Kit Frame, with modified components even. Also if you team has a habit of building custom drives every year you probably aren't going to use the kit frame anyways.

This is really great imo. Our team just finished up on building our first WCD and we love it. And plan to over the season and $450 to go to components would be awesome! I hope Andymark has some pulleys we can use with a live axle setup...

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

This is a huge step in the right direction; however, I'm a bit worried about the voucher deal.

Teams that might not be able to make a custom drivetrain that can match the kitbot in reliability might just opt out after seeing the savings. Of course, every team needs to make its own decisions; but, as a person who wants to see a net increase in competitiveness throughout FRC, I'm worried about how this move by FIRST and AndyMark may effect that goal. Maybe I'm just overthinking things, but who knows. I'm probably wrong.

Overall, I'm happy with the move to belts. I trust Cyber Blue's analysis and I think that many teams could use an introduction to the use of belts in an FRC drivetrain.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Free SuperShifters for everyone!

I wonder if Gates will offer more belt/pulley options to all teams?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm happy with this move as well, but I think I understand your concern. Hopefully all teams can evaluate their resources and experience/skills well enough before making this decision instead of just seeing a voucher for a large amount and making a perfunctory choice. Hopefully no teams screw themselves over.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I would like to think that most teams enjoy the freedom of making their own choice instead of having it made for them by a big daddy overseeing entity.

And if a relative few teams make the wrong choice, they will be responsible enough to deal with the consequences of their own actions, and others within the community will be kind enough to reach out to help them.

Because it would be a shame if the overseeing entity denied this freedom of choice from an entire community because they felt they had to "protect" a relative few ill-prepared teams from themselves.

Thank you, FIRST and AndyMark, for bringing more freedom of choice to the *individual* teams. What a wonderful concept. :cool:

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Me gusta. Me gusta mucho. Instead of piling up more C-Channel we can get SuperShifters again. I'm glad that the PDV list includes electronics as well. A few hundred dollars of controls parts could make me one happy kid..

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm leading a rookie team in 2013 and we've been active for the past month or two trying to prepare for the season. I submitted a reply to the FRC blog and I did my best to be diplomatic. I'm going to be more candid here.

I think it stinks that rookies don't have the same opportunity for a voucher that veteran teams do.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Well to be blunt as a rookie team do you guys have the abilities to custom fabricate a drive train that is solid and proven for your first year of competition? And the KOP drive you will be getting will be more solid then ever with toughboxes and a belt drive.

Even if rookies could choose the $450 of AM parts wouldn't most of them just use it all up buying drive parts that the Kit Frame gives them in the first place?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Not to mention that frankly, the kitbot/kitbot on steroids is a superior drivetrain to many if not most of the custom drivetrains many teams build from scratch. Excluding of course some of the teams that have been working at it for several years such as 254, etc.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

This is fantastic. Really, really good move.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Best news I've heard in a long time. And I'm amazed that FIRST is providing us such detailed information so early. I hope to see more of this. I have more kitbots piled up than I know what to do with. I really don't need another.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

This is a very good question, and one that I share as well. I'm also wondering if there will be a nicer way for low resource teams to interface to attach these belts to the axles/the AM wheel profile.

One can only hope,
- Sunny G.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I didn't read it that way...Correct me if I'm wrong, but there won't be a savings: each team will still spend the same amount for the KOP, just some will get fewer parts and a "gift card" from AndyMark.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I think the main concern is this (indirectly) favors veteran teams, and leaves less experienced/ less advanced teams where they are.

Many teams in FRC rely on the Kitbot to have a functioning drive base. Those teams are almost definitely going to opt to hold on to the Kitbot. Other teams who don't use the Kitbot base and have an alternative (like sheet metal) can get a $450 voucher from AndyMark for a bunch of cool gadgets to use on the robot.

I don't know if this has been ruled on yet, but I've seen discussion that because the voucher is a KoP item, it doesn't count towards the Bill of Materials, effectively raising those teams' robot budgets to $3950 (or $450 than other teams if the budget isn't $3500 this year).

I love that teams now have the option, but I'm afraid, for the time being, there might be a larger gap between upper and lower tier teams.

That said, I'm hoping that if FIRST continues this, it will push many teams to find a way to evolve out of the Kitbot chassis and develop a new structure of drive base.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

That's assuming the kitbot is value-less, which it certainly is not.

It's interesting that the kitbot kit is $400 (of course that may change for the new kit), so a team could take the voucher, buy the kitbot kit, and still have another $50 to spend however they wish. Unless I'm missing something, it's essentially the same as not taking the voucher, and then getting $50 in AndyMark credit for free.

EDIT: looking more closely, it seems that this is the true kitbot kit for last year. It's $550. It still leaves the possibility that one could get everything they want from the kitbot for less than the value of the voucher, and still have some spending money. It's difficult to make this judgement call without knowing what the new kit will cost.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

A few things to note:
1. The above kit uses the old FIRST wheels.
2. The above kit uses roller chain for four of the wheels and nothing for the front 2, instead of a six belt solution.
3. Only comes with 2 CIMs (I'm not sure if the new kitbot comes with 4 though)
4. You have to wait to get that kitbot a few days rather than getting it on Kickoff Day.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Wrong. The 2013 kitbot will have mini-toughboxes, not CIMple-boxes, which is another ~35$, and contains 4 CIMs (well, it did in 2012), not 2, which is another ~50$, so doing that you would actually lose money.

edit: Chris is me got ahead of me...

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

1 & 2) Yes, but it's not unreasonable that they would release this years kit at a similar price point.
3) The KoP has never come with 4 CIMs, why would they start now? (This is also dependent upon whether the CIMs are considered part of the "2013 AndyMark Kit of Parts Drive Base". I wouldn't consider them as such, but I'm not FIRST)
4) That's might not be a bad trade off for $50.

I did miss the part about the ToughBox Minis

Also, see my edit to my post above

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

The 2012 only had 2 CIM motors.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I really hope that they release the new kitbot specs prior to 10/18. They say that it will be belt drive, but gates doesn't make a 6-bolt pattern sprocket that would fit onto a wheel so the only option would be for gates to make a custom sprocket just for the kit (unlikely) or for the kitbot to switch to a live axle system (also unlikely). Either way it will be a massive step up from the current kitbot.

The whole point of the kitbot is that it's easy to make, reliable, strong and simple. I wouldn't expect First to release a kitbot that isn't those things, and if they can pull that off with a belt drive then that'll be a drive train better than most teams can custom make.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm interested to see the layout of the kitbot chassis using gates belt. The stated numbers (10.7:1 reduction and ~10fps with 6" wheels) suggest that there will be no further reduction via belt, so I wouldn't count on multiple pulley sizes.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I could easily see a extrusion made with the six hole pattern required for the standard wheel hub made for the kit. 1000 kits, 6000 sprockets plus spares for purchase. Add on a two or three year commitment it could be done very economically.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

True,

Although if FIRST is working with AM, AM/Andy could make an extrusion (with the 6 bolt pattern) for the pulley and then send it out for machining (most likely a boring operation and parting).

-RC

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I was thinking the same thing, if they were to use a custom extrusion I would hope they include a 1.125 bore hole in the pulley extrusion. That would keep the sprocket concentric with the wheel and if the hole was extruded instead of bored they could save a lot of material and end up with a very light well priced product.

However I'm sure First/Gates/Am want make the kitbot as simple as possible and would want to use existing off the self components, but that might not be possible or plausible.

The other thing that this kit might bring us is new belt drive products from andymark, as belt seems to be the direction FRC is going in.

Edit: You and Indysam think alike

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I would be 100% excited if AM/ gates released a belt line for FRC, and if the belts were a little thinner I would greatly appericeate it.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I run a good team and know a great deal about drivetrains. 973's drivetrains are top tier.

If I walked today and started a rookie team, even with experienced students/mentors and a stocked shop, I would run the KOP drive as a rookie.

I think preventing rookies from accidentally making the wrong choice is a great decision.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I think there is a very significant portion of veteran teams that would benefit more from using the KOP chassis than giving them a $450 voucher. How come it isn't in our best interest to prevent them from making the wrong choice?


In 2011 half of FRC couldn't put up more than one tube in a match or launch a minibot, and there weren't that many rookies.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm certain you do know a lot more than I about drivetrains, and I likely would agree with you after I see the game that the KOP drive would be used for, but...

...suppose you had already raised and spent money on a C-base chassis, two toughboxes, CIMs, along with other components so that your team had something to work with during the pre-season time period. It's tough for a rookie team to get those $$ together. Wouldn't you want to be able to use a voucher for parts other than those you had already purchased - the same as other teams are able to do - rather than receiving near duplicates in the KOP?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Sounds like a practice bot to me!

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Not all rookie teams are even in a position to fundraise enough to buy a Kitbot at this stage of the game. In fact, I would say that you're in the 1% or so that are. If I was a rookie, and saw that I could get a frame or $450, what would I go for? Probably the $450--not realizing how hard it is to build a custom drivetrain.

What FIRST is doing is, they are forcing the rookies to take a drivetrain and work with it during the season.

Maybe some of the rookies are doing that in the offseason. Well, I don't suppose that those rookies can repurpose some of that material into, oh, I don't know, superstructure? How about spare parts?

You're not wasting money. You're building inventory. And if your programmers don't have a testbed working by the time the real robot is handed over to them 2 days before bag, that's their problem. Practice robot, anybody?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

And just let them sit on the shelf until kickoff, because you can't fabricate anything you'll use in competition except during the 6 weeks, right?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

As a rookie team, you will find your sub-teams stretched during the build season. The programmers need a robot to test code/electronics on and the build teams needs the base of the robot to make the top of the robot.

When 3467 was founded, leadership knew what to expect and in pre-season so we had some old robots from teams from around the area and purchased a second KOP chassis from AM along with a second control system. While a significant expense we knew it would pay for itself over the course of several seasons. We can have a practice chassis that the programmers use to test code and prototypes and our real robot so mechanical and programming aren't working over each other. Additionally, after your robot is bagged or shipped you have duplicate chassis your drivers can get comfortable on and depending on the rules you can keep part of your robot to work on. This past year it was a 30lb allowance that didn't have to be bagged so we kept our shooter to tune and test code. Make sure you read the rules!

As a rookie most of us here would recommend you invest pre-season. It will give every aspect of the team a chance to work before you get into the hectic build season. Give your mechanical team some time assembling a chassis and chain.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Yes, that is exactly what we have now, except it's not only a driver practice bot, it's a whole-team pre-season practice bot.

I guess I'm one of those people who doesn't like to be forced to do something, even if it's for my own good. ;)

Yes we might be able to repurpose some of our components into superstructure during the season - that was one consideration in choosing what to buy this year. We've tried to be very careful in spending our money so we end up with the most flexible situation next winter in terms of spare parts and COTS items we could use in the winter.

No, that's not it at all. We haven't purchased anything ahead of time we don't plan to use for pre-season learning activity - we couldn't afford to.

We've spent one grueling nine-hour saturday going over the 2012 game and rules so far in a sort of mock kickoff, and we hope to do more of those covering other seasons before the 2013 kickoff. We will do our best to comply with the robot rules - anything we use next winter from our practice bot will be removed and then assembled to our competition robot.

Yes, we're trying to do as much learning as we can pre-season. We have a full, driveable KOP-like base built with a complete control system - HP let us buy a cRIO II using our temporary team number. Team 67 gave us a copy of the 2012 programming software. We'll have a complete pneumatic system when a few more parts are delivered next week.

Thank you all for your responses. I realize your advice is to help a rookie team start off on the right foot.

I do not disagree that a KOP drive base could very well be the best solution for us next winter and that a practice bot would be very useful. I've been very interested in the recent discussion about belts and I've been intending to bring that up with the rest of the team next week. Regarding the voucher though, I would rather have the same flexibility you have to choose - if we need to - to use a voucher on components other than the drivetrain parts we already have - parts we can use for our competition robot's effectors for example, like more jaguars, a gearbox...

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm conflicted, slightly.

On the one hand, 2815 has used the 2011 and 2012 kitbots with very light modifications (mostly to make it 6WD) and won three regionals with them. It works!

On the other hand, I know 1293 attempted to make belts work with the C-Base in 2011. They encountered enough flex issues with their arm that they ended up only using belts on the center-to-front run and chained from the gearbox to the center and rear wheels.

On the other other hand, 1293 also didn't have the brain trust you get when you put Gates, AndyMark, and FIRST's KoP engineers on the task. I'm not saying they're infallible, but I imagine this is the group I'd want to assemble if I was trying to get such a belt drive working in mass quantities.

We'll likely try it. And even if it turns out horribly unsuitable for our goal, well...we know a thing or two about chain. ;)

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

The kit chassis can easily be stiffened with a few pieces of 1x1 tubing running across the inside.

Also, to those mentioning the $450 voucher - I really believe $450 is not hard to raise in a single weekend or a single bake sale, even in the worst locations, it can be done. Yes the veterans have flexibility to make the choice to take the voucher, but $450 isn't all that hard to raise, even if you are a rookie. If someone needs fundraising help, feel free to PM.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

First I know it is no one's responsibility to give away spare parts. However it is an extremely common thing to do. One of the useful advantages of the kit bot chassis for young teams and teams with fewer resources is that they can almost always find spare parts at competitions from veteran teams that didn't use their kit bot drive train. I know we gave away half of our kit wheels this year to rookies that broke theirs. There will be far fewer spares at competitions in the coming years.

I for one am leaning to getting the kit bot chassis because I find it a very valuable tool to teach new students and it also gives the team experience using the parts that the rookie teams use. That way we can help rookie teams at rookie builds and at the regionals. If we didn't have our own kit bot it would be much harder to get our team up to speed on how to help others.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I was discussing this with some students at a team meeting yesterday, they seemed interested as it would be a fairly easy way to try out a belt drive with minimal risk. Especially as it is something we have debated trying for years but have never gotten around to attempting.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I've been waiting for someone to say this...Yes money is money, and every dollar has to come from somewhere, but taking a team on the road for a competition costs a ton more than this. I really think that this gives the rookie teams a "fall back" if they choose to try something more adventurous and it doesn't work...at least their kit will have the base drive train...and it sounds like an awesome one this year!

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'd like to pay Michigan prices and get 2 regionals for less than the price of one. Or continue to get the control system every year in the KoP.

Unfortunately life isn't fair. At least FIRST is trying to make the KoP more valuable for as many teams as possible.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Then you're lucky that you only have to endure this hardship for one year, then you are free to do as you please.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Would first choice be allowed for teams who chose to pick the $450?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Nothing implies that FIRST Choice would not be allowed if you choose the voucher.

Keep in mind, technically, and as the KOP Engineers view it, FIRST Choice is a completely separate component of the KOP from what you receive on kickoff, ie. when you get the kitbot.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I would assume so. FIRST Choice is available to every team; maybe some of the items aren't normally available (or are much harder to get), so to not have FIRST Choice available to the voucher teams would be a slap in the face that they wouldn't forget soon.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Could you please clarify what you meant by that 2nd sentence?

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Before 2009, the Kit of Parts included a new complete control system every year.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

OK so there was no connection intended to the 1st sentence then.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I'm with you in that belts is the way the more experience teams are going, at least in terms of drive trains, and that it would be great if AndyMark started offering support for belt pullies. However, I'm not sure that most teams (especially rookies) really know how to design a rock solid belt system. Although chains are a bit heavier and less efficient, they sure don't require the same level of expertise to pull off.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Touché!

I seemed to have rubbed people the wrong way and I'm truly sorry for that. I should have waited longer after I read FRC Blogged and then maybe I wouldn't have been so quick to use the "s"-word :)

Yes, we do have it good in Michigan and I'm grateful for that. We have a lot of dedicated people. Not only that - I bet we get our McMaster deliveries faster than you do - one day turn-around with UPS Ground. ;)

It is a good thing that the KOP is becoming more flexible.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

So as a Dean's List Winner at the 2012 Suppliers Summit I brought this up. Every year we go through the stress of ordering all the controls components that we need. We would be willing to pay the extra money to get a rookie kit and just get the controls stuff. So I asked Ms. Kate (head of KoP) if there would be any way for veterans to buy rookie kits. Since there is a lot of logistics in ordering parts from companies and setting up inventories she said that (if FIRST were to do that), veterans would have to make that decision in late Spring because that's when the KoP parts of begin to be ordered. Obviously that means that it could not be done for this season but they said they would consider it for next season.

I will note that at the Suppliers Summit us Deans List kids also suggested giving the option to replace parts of the kit with vouchers which would give teams flexibility. We were all pretty excited to see this email because we got the 'Oh-yay-they-listened-to-us' feeling.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

That is an interesting position to be in, I do see your point.

As Akash pointed out $450 isn't hard to raise nor is it a lot of money when on an FRC team. Our team raised $3000 after expenses over the course of 3 weeks selling raffle tickets to a Boston Bruins game. We were inspired by another local team who when in need of cash fast raffled two $100 gas cards.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Could a team that elected to receive the hotbot in the fall but doesn't actually use any of it on the robot come build season still count $450 worth of PDV qualified parts as kop?

If so' this would be a pretty easy decision for my "sophomore" team.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would always choose the HOTBOT option.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

Haha sorry, my smartphone autocorrect isn't literate in FRC lingo.

If hotbot means a chasis built by 67 I would gladly take that option.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

As the saying goes...
You always pick HOTBOT.

Re: FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution
 

We get the same thing. Order by 12:00 AM, get it by 3:00 PM the next day. They actually deliver in a McMaster-Carr vehicle to us though :)

On a more general note, I am very in favor of not only FIRST's opportune and advantageous decision to adapt the KOP to various types of teams, but also of its transparency. We asked for it, and sure enough we got it. From Einstein to CMP to the KOP, FIRST is letting us in on the decisions they make and I feel that strongly benefits us both as a community as well as competitively.

With regards to belts, 1515 took FIRST's move as inspiration to finally make the switch from ANSI 35 to GT2. We're probably going to go for 5mm pitch (standardized), and 9 and 15mm widths.