Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Hey 1075guy

I think you are missing the point here. We are talking about peoples lives and careers. The "children" will be fine if they miss one season of FRC. and if I have to choose between giving up a volentary activity and my career that pay the bills for my family I think it obvious which I would choose and I think would you too. We stand united angainst a bill that is unconstitutional. We don't live in North Korea last time I checked. We are fighting for the right to collectively bargain not a pay raise or more time off. This bill affects everyone not just teachers. we are just the beginning. Sometimes big issues cause you to make tough decisions. No one likes this. But that is why we are called a "union" . There is power in numbers. In stead of bashing try supporting the people who have given countless hours to FRC because they love it too. Try to see the big picture of how this bill is affecting the educational system. FRC is pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

We're talking about the children's future. THEIR lives and careers, which for many of them will be directly related to their participation in FRC. Teachers teach for decades. Students are there for 4 years. Would you be OK with being robbed of 25% of your opportunity at a better future simply because of a labor dispute that has nothing to do with you?

Never mind that many of the students the program touches and affects are only involved for 1 or 2 years.

There exists many teams who are literally keeping disadvantaged youth off the streets and away from drugs, guns, and gangs. Other extracurriculars also accomplish this.

I assure you, I am not the one missing the big picture here.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Yes it does suck for everyone involved. But again if I have to choose between MY future and Career over everything you stated again I choose my career. My family comes first. Not someone else family. I VOLUNTEER for this every year because I love everything about it. It is not my job it is VOLUNTEER!!! The 8 years I have put in speaks for itself. I do what I can when I can do it but right now I can't. there is a bigger issue here then scholarships and fun time. Sorry if that offends anyone but MY kids come first. So I say again,instead of complaining how about support the people that have done so much for so many years but can't right now. Tough decisions have to made and when that happens people sometimes don't understand. I don't think you are seeing the big picture you are only seeing what directly impacts you. I'm sure you are a great guy but your missing the point here. This bill affect everyone. Teachers are just the beginning. If this was about something small like more money or benefits then fine but it's not. It's peoples rights being removed by government. I think that is the big picture. Educate yourself about the issue before you take aim.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

We just spent today moving our stuff out of our portable, off school property. We also now have a release of liability form as we are becoming a community team so the school insurance doesn't help us. Unfortunately we may not be able to use the mill we bought for our school two years ago.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I think its sad that the students have been put forward in an issue they have no role in. This is between the teachers/unions and the government not the students. When the students suffer in the school system, neither side is doing their job properly.

As a former student, I would have been devastated if my senior year I wasn't allowed to compete or if this was my year to work for a scholarship through a sport to pay for college.

Hoping for the best guys its sad to see this happening!

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I believe that this is a key point here. Teachers are just the beginning in a long line of public services waiting to be abused. What if I graduate into a job that is being given the same harsh treatment that teachers are being given now? Teams like 781 are finding ways around this by becoming a community team. So what if this is more difficult than a "regular build season." I prefer this to teachers buckling under and loose their rights. Unless this is resolved, I can guarantee that becoming a teacher will be crossed off my list of potential careers.

This is bigger than FRC. It isn't just about how poorly the teachers are being treated now, it is about how poorly every public service will be treated in the years to come.

For the record, my team is also being negatively effected by this, I'm not just some onlooker providing my $0.02

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

great post Gregor that's the big picture. 772 is still going. We are leaning on our sponsors , mentors and parents to keep it going. It will be different and the pressure will be on to make a robot in 6 weeks but pressure makes diamonds

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Well, it's nice to know that everyone is so confident that they are "right". I wish I knew all the answers to everything, too. :) It's easy to get passionate, but lets' chill it a bit with the capital letters (internet "shouting" is rarely a sign of rational discussion) and approach this with the same constructive, informed approach that we'd like to encourage in our students, eh?

I'm not in Ontario, I don't know the situation on the ground, but I might have some perspective that will be helpful.

I used to teach in the British Columbia high school system. About ten years ago the government passed legislation limiting teachers' right to strike, and removing class size limits from collective agreements. They also removed targeted career preparation funding for high school students and cut back in a few other areas as well. Turns out that the Supreme Court said it was unconsitutional how they went about it, but that decision came years later... to late to make any real difference.

My union, the BC Teachers' Federation was strongly opposed to this, but didn't engage in any lasting job action or extracurriclar bans.

So... good for kids right? It never really interrupted an FRC season, a basketball season, or anything like that.

Over the past decade however, FRC has completely died off in BC. It's part of an overall reduction in teacher volunteer time for coaching, councils and a variety of activities. Teachers aren't doing this out of spite, or in attempt to bargain... they are just busier doing their "day job" than they used to be.

For example in our tech studies department we saw a 30% increase in class sizes, and about a 50% cutback in funding as a result of these changes. That means 30% more marking, 30% more students needing help with classwork after school, and a whole heck of a lot more time scrounging the materials that are needed to run a technology education program.

You'll notice I'm not teaching in a high school any more, and I'm not running an FRC team any more... the conditions in the high schools certainly made it easier for me to move on to something new.

So... what's the relevance to Ontario? Here in BC we didn't stick it out in an extended job action to protest the cuts back in 2001. We didn't cause a short term disruption to schools and extracurriculars.

Is BC better off as a result? Well, the education minister who made those cuts a decade ago is the Premier now, and has been going around the province talking about suddenly discovering a "skills shortage".

Perhaps if we had taken a stronger stand a decade ago, I'd still be teaching high school and running an FRC team; perhaps the other teachers who were running FRC teams would still be doing it, too; perhaps we could have convinced others to get on board more easily... and perhaps BC wouldn't be using a "temporary foreign worker" program to bring in skilled workers from overseas to solve a "skills shortage" that was ten years in the making.

I honestly don't know... but I do know that the province that has some of the best teaching salaries and working conditions in Canada is also the province with the greatest FRC involvement. Perhaps those two things are kind of related, and perhaps... just maybe... protecting those things is in the long term best interest of teachers, students and the province alike.


Jason

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Where's the Chief Delphi "like" button? Rep just doesn't do it justice.

-Nick

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

now that's a big picture.!!!! Great post Jason!!!

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

My first obligation is to my family. After that, FIRST is pretty darn high up on my list*. I give up a great deal to run 1551, and unlike a lot of teachers I get paid for it -- almost a third minimum wage, not counting the time I don't report (and there's a good amount of that). I'd do it even if I didn't get paid anything (but please don't tell my school board that). I love FIRST, but not because I love robots or robotics**. I love FIRST because it enables kids to be even more amazing than they could be, and it sucks community members in to that passion, even community members without children on teams. There isn't a single education dollar or minute better spent than FIRST...

But my family comes first. I can't blame anyone for making a decision that helps them keep their career, their livelihood, their ability to pay their mortgage and feed their loved ones.

Crappy, no-win situations lead to crappy, no-win choices. Demonizing the teachers for standing with their unions against this terrible law and/or not eating an untenable financial penalty is indefensible. I love my students and I love FIRST, but I made a vow to my wife. So those of you who are criticizing these teachers*** need to just back off.

*Kickoff is on my anniversary this year. I'll be at kickoff.

**Or even games. I love games. Board games, war games, you name it. Roborally is apropos, and also one of my favorites.

***I'm not one of them. I'm not Canadian.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Jason,

Thanks for your post! I agree 200%.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

You must spread some reputation before giving it to dtengineering again.

...

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Interesting article by Karen Nancarrow

Are Those Darn Teachers Still Complaining About Their Salaries?
An opinion piece, by Karen Nancarrow, Ontario Certified Teacher

I’ve just read one too many teacher bashing posts on Facebook today.

As a teacher, I will of course, provide a slanted opinion, but here you are. Disagree with me if you’d like, but not until you read this entire article, start to finish.

I love my job. Period. I would do it for less money, fewer sick days, and less time off. I would do it if I had to be tested yearly by the government to show that I know my stuff, and even if extra-curriculars were forced on me. I would still do it. I love it.

I went into teaching because I love kids. Yes, there are many people who think we go into this profession for the money, but please consider this. A starting teacher’s salary in our school board is $39 000. And this is after an average of 5-7 years to get a contract. In order to move up on the pay grid, teachers must have years of experience (so our salary goes up a little every year up to a maximum of 10 years) and we must also take extra courses in order to be paid the maximum amount. So in order to reach the top of the pay scale, a teacher must have had a contract for 10 years and have taken several extra university credits (paid out of their own pockets AFTER two university degrees).

So given that it might take 10-15 years to make it to the top of the pay scale (which is still a modest amount), many people’s assertion that teachers are in this for the money really have no justification for their position. When you ask teachers to look at “how good we have it”, please realize that when we go into teaching, the reasons are NEVER about the money! If I wanted to get rich, I definitely would not have chosen teaching as a career.

Pensions: Yes, we have a good one. Because we PAY into it!! Every maternity leave that I’ve taken (3 in total), I have paid back my pension and paid $8000 plus each time to keep it updated. Pulled it out of an RRSP.

So putting the money argument aside for a moment, this fight with the government actually has NOTHING to do with money. The bottom line for most teachers is that we have the RIGHT to negotiate with our employer. In fact, when this whole thing first got started, most teachers I know said “pay freeze for two years – yup, times are tough – we get it”. But it was only after more details evolved that we realized that the government wants to take away WAY more than two years of a pay increase.

Some say that we should be negotiating with our employers.

POINT OF CLARIFICATION here – the government is NOT our employer!! The school boards are. Imagine a third party coming in, going over your employer, who you have a good working relationship with, and telling you and them what you will be paid, how many sick days you will get, what days you will take off without pay, and that EVERYTHING you have negotiated with your employer in the last 20 years has now just been taken away in a heartbeat. No discussion. You have no say and your employer has NO say. Not even 5 minutes of discussion were we given – thanks so much!

Wouldn’t you fight to at least have the discussion with your employer? Even if you ended up with the same thing the government wanted to impose, would you not fight to have the ability to try?

Here are the two biggest concerns that I have:
Yes people not in unions dislike unions. But unions are the backbone of a lot of our working class people – whether they are in one or not. If unions fall, we should ALL be very afraid! What the government seems to be attempting to do is to get rid of unions. This is not about an argument with teachers. This is about the government exerting unjustified power to wave their magic wand and do whatever the heck they want and this is NOT OK!! Whether you are in a union or not, whether you support unions or not, remember that they are the ones who have fought for statutory holidays, minimum wage, overtime and good working conditions. Whatever is negotiated, ALL workers benefit! Get rid of the unions – you’ll also be getting rid of the middle class. Less people have less money to spend = more people out of jobs. Period.

2. This fight is about protecting our democratic right to free collective bargaining with our employers. If Bill 115 is allowed to stand (which I doubt, because one very similar to it was just reversed in BC because it was considered unconstitutional and unlawful by the courts), then this allows governments free reign and places themselves ABOVE the Human Rights Act and ABOVE the Employment Standards Act!! We should ALL be very scared of this! They are putting themselves ABOVE the law.

That’s it. Top two concerns for sure. Not about money, sick days, pension or benefits.

The government could have easily said to the school boards (OUR EMPLOYERS) that they had a certain amount of money and then teachers would have (just like we do every 2-4 years) negotiated our contracts with our employers. But they didn’t.

Because of their excessive spending over the last 8 years, the Liberals panicked when it came time for the bi-election a few months ago. In order to get the Conservative vote, they acted hard-nosed to get a majority. How’d that work for you McGuinty?

I get it. You’re upset. When teacher’s contracts are splayed out in the papers for everyone to see every few years, people get pissed off at our “privilege” and our sick days, and our summers off. We all have that one teacher who was mean to us (or 2 or 3) and it’s time we give all teachers heck because of the very few bad apples.

AND on top of that, what we have always gets compared to what everyone else has.

Teachers work hard. No one is saying that you don’t.

Teachers deserve every penny they get. No one is saying that you don’t.

Teachers need sick days because we are around sick kids who wipe their boogers on us every day. And get lice, Fifths disease and pink eye. The flu, barf on our shoes, and sneezing in our face. Oh yes. Fun times.

Teachers get the summers off. Yup. And we don’t get paid either. We get paid for TEN months.

Teachers negotiated banking sick days. This actually ended up being better for the government than paying us vacation pay, so we actually gave in and took the banked sick days over having vacation pay every year. Banking sick days means that we have a bit of a short term disability plan if we get really sick. It means that at the end if we haven’t used all of our days, we get a small retirement gratuity, which is then taxed and half taken away. This actually SAVES the government money in the long run – cheaper than the supply teachers they would have had to pay had we taken all of those days. (Let’s not mention that Dalton is getting paid right now for doing NOTHING (excuse me, I mean organizing the Liberal Leadership convention), and when he retires in a month will get a retirement gratuity of $315,000), but who notices that?

We get that we are well taken care of. But we help you RAISE your children. And for some, we provide a safe place, food for breakfast, a hug a day, love and support when they get that NO WHERE ELSE.

And we do a ton of extra-curriculars. The public loves us when we do them and they get outraged when we don't. They are ALL VOLUNTEER!! And we love doing them, but NO ONE has the right – not our employer, not the government, and not the public – to pressure us or to chastise us when we choose not to VOLUNTEER!

I had a student tell me yesterday that I have changed his life. Not because I do an after school activity with him, but because I listen to him, care for him, spend time with him and value him.

Yes, we’ve all had a crappy teacher or two. But please everyone… don’t make it about that. Teachers deserve your respect. You love us all year until it’s time to negotiate with our employers which we have every right to do.

Parents – you’re pissed off? Good. Because now you’re paying attention! So how will you expend that frustration? Posting more Facebook posts about how horrible and greedy teachers are? I hope not.

Do better than that. Stand with us.

We are fighting for your children. For our own children.

We are fighting for public education.

We are fighting for democracy.

And if we get taken down, I’d watch your back, because you might be next….

PLEASE sign the petition to STOP Bill 115: http://stopbill115.ca/

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Great read, thank you for posting that. Where was this published?

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

On her facebook page

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Suggest to her to publish that to a newspaper. It was exceptionally well written.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Many Ontario teams are restructuring themselves as Community Groups to avoid this nightmare. In order to prevent them from doing so and keep them out of competition, many teachers and school administration are witholding their funds and equipment. I have now watched three schools whose admin and staff have turned 180deg against their students. For any students who are facing this sort of resistance, politely inform your teachers and administration in writing that they are in breech of section 337 of the Criminal Code of Canada - Public Servant Refusing to Deliver Property. This should get their butts in gear to let you guys have your robotics equipmet. - http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...1.html#docCont

"337. Every one who, being or having been employed in the service of Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province, or in the service of a municipality, and entrusted by virtue of that employment with the receipt, custody, management or control of anything, refuses or fails to deliver it to a person who is authorized to demand it and does demand it is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years."

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Threats of legal action are something of a nuclear option, for several reasons. Although they have their place, I would hesitate before issuing any, especially ones that accuse a specific person of criminal activity.

If you deliver that message, you're essentially alleging a criminal offence, which implies to the person receiving it that the police and Crown attorneys could become involved. While that may make them fearful of the law, it will also sour their relationship with you. In a circumstance where you have little to lose, this might be a reasonable loss—but here, where you presumably expect to work with them in the future, I think it's a bad idea.

(Granted, if students deliver it, rather than adults, the school may feel less threatened by it. I still think it's a bad idea, on balance.)

Instead, I would appeal to their sense of duty more circuitously. If you believe the section 337 argument is justified, or if you believe that the argument is specious but strong enough to provoke action anyway, then make a public statement—like an op-ed in a newspaper, press release from an appropriate group, or the display or dissemination of protest literature—laying out the argument and warning them in general terms that they might be contravening the law.

In any event, I don't think s. 337 is going to hold up for you. I had a (quick) look at cases citing that section, and the closest I could find was Ambrosi v. British Columbia (Attorney General), where, at paragraph 75 et seq., the court lays out what it means to be "authorized" to make the demand. Even that decision isn't really on point, and you'd be breaking relatively new legal ground in pursuing this.

It seems the central question would be, if they're entrusted with the property, why aren't they also entrusted with its disposition? What authorizes you to override their judgment, in making your demand? It seems to me that withholding the property—if it is theirs to withhold—is a legally valid exercise of their power, whether or not it is morally justifiable.

And even if they are willing to engage you in the legal arena, they'll just call your bluff, and say "tell it to the Crown attorney", in the firm belief that no charges will be brought.¹ Would you actually participate in what could be a multi-year legal battle, over this?

¹ You could bring a private prosecution like Ambrosi apparently did, but that's really going out on a limb.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Witholding the equipment would be considered casting the first stone in this case. In these situations the relationship is often already considered to be sour.

Whether it holds up or not is of no concern. In this case you're banking on the idea that it will scare them enough into releasing the equipment. It is indeed a bluff as far as I'm concerned. Engaging in a legal battle will consume far more resources than you stand to gain from the release of the equipment. The bottom line is that the administration wants to avoid a legal battle as much as possible. Hopefully the threat of legal action will outweigh their commitment to their cause.

In 90% of these cases the admin and staff are doing this to "cover their butts" should their union ask them "why did you allow the team to continue?" This provides them with an out in that they were threatened with legal action.

In any case, this tactic has proved effective for several teams without further escalation. Provided you keep things civil in your correspondance, it shouldn't sour relationships any more than they already are. - Nothing personal, this is just business.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

True, but it's a bad bluff and and even worse bet.

Speaking as a school board member (for the district I live in, not 1551's district, though I think I can speak for a lot of school officials in this regard), I can almost-but-not-quite guarantee that any extracurricular team that threatened legal activity against their sponsoring school would be immediately disbanded, and all club's assets -- which are in fact the school's assets -- would be liquidated and the money put in the school's general fund.

...and the team would never, ever be allowed to re-form as a school club.

<Swift>Like, ever.</Swift>

This being the case, I highly suggest that teams not even pretend to start thinking about having an inkling of possibly doing this maybe if the circumstances are right.

There is no bad situation that cannot be made worse by the misapplication of lawyers.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I'd just like to call out this key point.

At least south of the international boundary, school clubs usually are not authorized to demand this equipment by the 337 equivalent. It isn't actually "theirs" once it's accounted for through/by/with the school. You can dodge this (as we did) with meticulous records, but if you don't have have those and cannot handle the separation cordially (possession being 9/10ths down here) you're likely SOL in the US. I hope it's not the same up north, but teams would do well to check district rules before trying such a dangerous politico-legal stunt. You'll likely find you're much better off in the court of public opinion, if anywhere.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Well it's worked so far so it can't be all bad. Keep in mind this is not my idea, this was dreamt up by two students' parents who are both lawyers in a reputable firm.

Yep - and you'd have a PR nightmare when the stories hit the newspapers as they did here. Good luck with that.

I don't think you quite comprehend what's going on. The teams don't have anything to lose in these cases. The schools have already disbanded the clubs and they are being forced to restructure as community groups. Last time I checked our public schools are publicly owned and thus the equipment and funds belong to the public: students, sponsors and individuals who put them there in the first place. In a private school however, you could probably have gotten away with this.

Why would they ever want to?

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I don't think sarcasm and belligerence are helpful attitudes, here. It's a PR nightmare either way, but "part of us tried to sue us" is an easier sell than many might anticipate.

Many schools and organizations have default responses to threats of litigation, as advised by their lawyers -- and this can turn a short-term problem into a very, very long-term problem.

I advise caution.

It could be different in Canada, but in the US those resources belong to the public, yes, but as administered by the school administration and overseen by the school board. As such, the admins/board can't "take" the equipment and money for themselves, but they can absolutely resell and repurpose it for other school uses. (It thus remains public assets, but not FIRST team assets. "Owned by the public" and "owned by the team" are not the same thing.)

Possible. As a long-time teacher and school board member I'm only familiar with US law in general and NYS law in particular on this matter, though I do know that most other states operate in a similar manner. It's true that I'm not familiar with Canadian law, and I'm certain that there are others that know better than I do.

Is the anticipation that this situation (no extracurricular activities at schools) is a permanent situation, beyond the 2013 season to perpetuity? (These teams may very well be back next year, after all.)

Is there no concern that FIRST/school relationships might be permanently damaged by threats of litigation? (If FIRST teams start to sue schools, schools will be much less likely to start or to continue FIRST teams, so the impact may go well beyond the team doing the litigation-threatening.)

Is there no concern that the team/teacher relationship might be damaged by this situation? (If people on my team sued the school, I imagine it could make my position extremely uncomfortable and much more tenuous -- especially considering the sudden loss of collective bargaining rights!)

"Nothing to lose" is often, well, not the situation people think they're in when they're feeling that they have nothing to lose.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I suspect this issue has quieted down both on here and in the media as the schools are in winter shutdown right now, but it remains an open issue that's roaring down on FRC Kickoff. It ought to be interesting to see what OSSTF does come January 1st, when Education Minister Laurel Broten has the power under the controversial Bill 115 to impose contracts on the union.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

UPDATE: Broten says she's going to impose the contracts before school returns on Monday, but also repeal bill 115, hoping that will quell the storm and bring the return of extracurriculars.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...chool-teachers

ETFO has not yet indicated a response is coming, OSSTF says they're going to release their response later today.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Actually, Sam Hammond (ETFO) is holding a press conference right now. Unless someone can correct me, the future of Ontario public high school teams depends on the stance of the OSSTF and not the ETFO?

Right now Hammond is taking an ambiguous stance on whether extra-curriculars will continue to be not supported by teachers, and it may a stance continued by the OSSTF.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Correct. ETFO could be relevant to JFLL, FLL, FTC, and VEX teams though.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Yes, but repealed after the forced contracts expire in 2014.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6891873/

Who says the Liberals will be in power then?

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

What amuses me is how she could possibly be so brazen as to believe that this might calm the storm. She just beat the teachers over the head with her controversial sledgehammer and then says "OK, now I'll put it away", like that would make things OK? Is she crazy?

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

The conservatives publically support bill 115

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Having a look at the Teamlist for 2013, I noticed a few things:

Several teams have changed their Team Name with FIRST:

Stoney Creek, ON Canada CNC Woodcraft / Gridpath Solutions & The Stoney Creek Community 2056
St. Catharines, ON Canada Innovation First International / General Motors St. Catharines Powertrain & Simbotics 1114
LaSalle, ON Canada General Motors of Canada / Centerline / The Chrysler Foundation / Dr. Anil Dhar Medicine Professional Corp. / Bell Canada / Rockwell Automation & Community of LaSalle 772
Oakville, ON Canada Hatch / Javelin Technolgies / Teradata / North American Palladium / NuTech Engineering / Mattamy Homes / Sheridan College / Professional Engineers of Ontario / Optimist Club of Oakville / Davis Webb LLP / TD Bank / Susan Diane Brown / Derek Blakely Wealth Management & Oakville Community Robotics 1334
Mississauga, ON Canada Pratt & Whitney / General Motors of Canada / Karan Fastner / Templeton & Sons / Hydrogenics / A'S Precision Machining / Microchip Technology Inc / Ontario Power Generation & Theory6 1241
Kitchener, ON Canada General Motors / Paul Davis Systems / Rockwell Automation & REBotics Community Group 2702

These 6 teams used to have their associated highschools named in the official team name. (Orchard Park SS, Governor Simcoe SS, Sandwich SS, Oakville Trafalgar HS, Rick Hansen SS, and Eastwood Collegiate HS)

The other thing I was half-expecting to see was a few rookies or veteran rookies (low new-issue numbers) for these community restructured teams that couldn't get their school to release the name or number.

Could this be one of those?

Kingston, ON Canada Queen’s University Faculty of Education Community Outreach Centre & W.A.F.F.L.E.S. Community Robotics 4476

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

No, they are a community team that have been doing Vex and FLL for years. Some members used to be on 2809.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Schools don't "own" the number so there's no release required. FIRST owns the number. Changing a partner organization is very easily done in TIMS. The partner type is changed from school to community organization. There is, however, more to it than that in changing from a school-based team to a community-based team.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

In the registration thread, Mark just posted about the first 7 casualties. Hope the OSSTF talks tomorrow and Wednesday can save some of the others that I know could still fall before regionals.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I am on one of the teams affected by the strike. There is a way to get around it, by breaking away from the school itself. We are supported by the township now. We know of at least one other team in Ontario that did this (break from the school). But as many of you have said it is a huge blow to the teams that cannot participate this year as FIRST is losing some great teams.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

The teachers from Catholic school boards in Toronto and York Region from Ontario aren't on strike, and quite a few teams come from those school boards, so they'll be some of us at least. I'm also aware of some teams with teachers on strike are trying to merge/team up with Catholic schools in order to participate in FRC.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Does anybody know what is happening with team 188? They were registered for Western Canada and they disappeared off the roster. They don't seem to be registered for GTR east, or GTR west. I am confused and hoping they are still participating in FRC this season.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I didn't see them at kickoff, and they are gone from all their events. Seems like we have lost a perenial powerhouse this year.

See this post.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

188 due to the teacher unrest has DROPPED out of FRC this season.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I have the utmost respect for teachers and unions, but seeing that the government the students and their families live under are disenfranchising kids from opportunities like FRC is really disappointing.

The creation of no win situations really stink.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

I've been invovled with 188 for the last eight years, but I am only an alumnus and am not aware of a lot of the finer administrative details associated with where the team stands this year - so take from my post what you will.

The last official position I had heard from a teacher on the team was that 188 was cancelling its three registrations (GTR-E, Waterloo, Western Canada). This was done because of the uncertainty associated with the labour strife and the potential for losing all money spent on event registrations if the labour issues continue beyond the build season.

Where things go from here remains up in the air.

That said, some of the senior students have taken it upon themselves to try and make the most of the situation and run a mock season. They plan to deconstruct the game, discuss design direction, and potentially even conceptually design a robot that would succeed at competing in this year's challenge. In doing so, they hope to expose some of the newer students to the timeline of an FRC season in addition to teaching them transferable skills with value beyond the mock season experience. If things do somehow work out in time, perhaps they will even be prepared to jump right in to building the real thing.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

Now that the season has started, has anyone taken note of which teams are not participating this year? I'd like to pay tribute to them somehow over the course of the season...Not sure how yet but they must not be forgotten and I refuse to be silent about their lost season.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

FIRST Team 1296 hopes our Ontarian colleagues find some way to stay in and compete. Many great robots and even more great concepts/designs come out of Canada. What an ordeal and how unfortunate...

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle7106051/

Latest development.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

This is very sad news. I will certainly miss seeing 188 in competition this year.

The pattern seems to be that the teams who have strong parent and sponsor support (offsite build facilities particularily) have been the most successful in breaking away from their schools and forming "community" groups. Those who rely primarily on teacher and staff support from their schools, particularily for administrative and organizational duties seem to be dissappearing without a trace in most cases. Even my old team which hasn't missed a competition since my high school friends and I started it 13 years ago has dropped out. It kills me to see the growth of FIRST that has occurred in Ontario over the last decade cut so drastically over a labour action where nobody wins.

This same action effectively stopped Air Canada flight attendants from striking last year so I see no reason why the government won't succeed with the teachers.

Re: Ontario Teams in Jeopardy for 2012/2013?
 

FIRST Team 1296 hopes our Ontarian colleagues find some way to stay in and compete. Many great robots and even more great concepts/designs come out of Canada. What an ordeal and how unfortunate...



Here here and we agree completely....

Team 2582