Re: [FTC]: Does this violate <R02>?
 

Oh. Oh my goodness. You're right! I hadn't even thought about that.

You could fusion weld, or spot weld sheet metal or aluminum extrusions, of course, but filler rod or MIG isn't included in the rules.

And please... it isn't "my" definition... the defintion of "Raw Material" is given quite clearly in the rules. (And remember, I'm only arguing that that definition applies to "Raw Material" as covered under 2.d.1, all other materials specifically allowed by the rules are legal, and you can pretty much do what you want with them. It is only materials that are described no where else in the rules that have to meet the definition of "Raw Material" in order to be legally included on the robot.)

But I have found a way to argue that 3D printing is legal... 2.d.4 allows "Monofilament", and doesn't specify that it has to be monofilament fishing line. So I could probably be convinced to include 3D printed materials as the feedstock would come from a single filament of plastic. This moves the feedstock from having to be included under 2.d.1 as "Raw Material" and moves it to 2.d.4, where it is no longer subject the the definition of "Raw Material" and can now be "used in the construction of the robot" even after it has been manufactured or processed into a functional form.

I wish someone had suggested that about twenty posts ago. It's a bit of a lame loophole, as the other examples of materials in 2.d.4 are all items that can be tied, twisted and used for tensile applications, but I think it could work.

But yeah... this welding thing.... you are totally right. Filler rod is not included in the list of materials you are allowed to use on your robot, and I'd have hard time believing MIG wire is "monofilament". :ahh:

And yes.... yes, I am chuckling as I write this.

Jason

Re: [FTC]: Does this violate <R02>?
 

My reaction was way beyond a chuckle...

Re: [FTC]: Does this violate <R02>?
 

Mine as well...

- Andrew

Re: [FTC]: Does this violate <R02>?
 

I think I could tie and twist printer line. Maybe even use it for a tensile application. (Like pulling more off of the reel!)

Jason, I bet I can find a way around the filler rod and MIG wire not being listed as legal. Filler rod is aluminum, as I recall, sold in rod form as a raw material. MIG wire is also aluminum, sold in wire form as a raw material. Raw materials are explicitly allowed, and as I recall it was decided that they are not meant to remain in raw material form because that just doesn't make any sense in terms of putting on a robot. Also, the welding makes it very obvious what form the material originally was in. Therefore, welding with filler rod and MIG wire is legal because a) the raw material is legal and b) you can tell what it came from pretty easily.

Of course, welding type isn't specified--anybody got an ultrasonic welder or a friction stir welder?

Re: [FTC]: Does this violate <R02>?
 

Auuugh! :eek: No... no... must resist posting! <FAIL>

That's the whole point of what this entire thread has been discussing, and you're absolutely right... the definition in 2.d.1 that says a "Raw Material" ceases to be a "Raw Material" when it is "processed or manufactured into a functional form" doesn't make sense the way it is worded right now, at least as far as practical robot design considerations go. It is absolutely contrary to everything that the GDC has apparently said about their intentions for including it.

But whether we like it or not, or whether it makes sense or not, doesn't change what it says.

In any case, I've had fun with this discussion and I don't even have anything to do with FTC. Can't wait to see how much time I'll lose when the FRC rules come out! I was mostly curious what the rules said, and what the game was about... and it led down this particular little rabbit hole. I'm interested to see how the GDC's intent to include a broad range of manufacturing processes and materials will turn out.

It looks like a good game, regardless of my fixation with 2.d.1

Jason