Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Was about to post 2006's hint, but found a better history:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I just hope for a game where I can hold as many game objects as I design for. (2006, 2009) I'm kind of tired of the limits, one soccer ball, one tube, three basketballs. Give me some flexibility :)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I don't know about the minibot pole, but I do know several people that got Logomotion-->making FIRST logos-->inner tube game.

People in 2010 figured out that Hint #2 was an extra gate, and therefore there would be a field split into 3rd by a barrier we weren't supposed to carry robots over. Some even deciphered Hint #1 as a ball track and connected it with soccer (because it was a World Cup year and/or they determined the scale).

I don't remember much useful coming out of 2009, but 2008 was the IR year. It was also the GPS coordinate year, and there were people that found the tortoise and the hare statue and determined it was a race (presumably NASCAR-style given field size limitations).

...Now, if you're asking whether anything useful was done as a result of a game hint, that's less clear (barring the IR sensor). If any teams trusted their conclusions enough, they certainly could've gotten a head start on everything from barrier traversers and NASCAR drivetrains to soccer ball possessors and inner tube grippers, among others. Whether anyone did is another story. It's a bit of a leap of faith.

EDIT: and what efoote said.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Near a river...

You know what that means! :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Neither. The human disabling the robot was due to a safety issue.

The real problem is this: You're going at your sprinting speed, and you have to stop, completely stop, in a rectangle that's about 2'x3', and you're going in the 2' direction, or the robot enables and immediately disables. You can slow down, but that increases the "disabled" time. (The target at the other end was more like 4' square.) Oh, and you have to have your full weight on it for it to be active.

As I recall, some offseasons used a hand-pressed button, so you had a bit more time to hit the brakes.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

How about switching Rick Rolled to Egg Rolled. Eggs made an appearance twice that I know of at world championships out of place. One was on a fact sheet given to VIP escorts saying how many eggs were used at the world champs, and another appearance was made in the (Friday?) opening ceremony video. I'd watch out for egg shaped game pieces in the 2013 game.

EDIT: I've also learned there is something called a "3 minute egg" which would refer to the video being stopped at 3 minutes.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Rugby balls are sort of egg shaped.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

So are footballs!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

It means 12 weeks of game hint speculation - :ahh:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

And the 3-tier scheduling system :mad:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Now this sounds likely. What was the game where robots had to climb on top of eachother?

EDIT: The game I found was rack n roll. Possibly combining with the fact that "rack n roll" is similar to "rick roll".

Were going to have the rack n roll end game? Does that sound not good?

I doubt another tube game two years after logomotion.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I didn't know the 2013 championships were being held in 2030 :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Yes, they feed us volunteers a ton of food... And the mountain of eggs in the morning helps keep the inspectors happy!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Anyone else notice that the coordinates lead to a place called Mill No. 3?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

http://www.see-sciencecenter.org/vis...d-project.aspx

LEGO exhibit containing about 3 million LEGOs.

The first 3 LEGO brick colors were are Red, Yellow, and Blue.

The FIRST logo is found in 2 of the photos along with Dean Kamen being mentioned.

Oh and theres this in the caption of one of the photos, "The completed project with approximately three million LEGO bricks,
running water and trains is now on permanent exhibit at the SEE Science Center."

LEGO themed water game?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Flat pin is on the bottom of the red stack indicating support platform for red partner!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Pins are a symbolic equation: elevating your teammate equals scoring the uber game piece...

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Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

My guess would be the geo-tag is only referring the building the science center is in - Mill Number 3. If you look at the south side of the building there is also a large number 3 on the side, only adding to the references to 3.

Lego's are a little to small for an audience pleasing game peace, Maybe mimibots made of legos?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I just had to counter this statement... a quick search of google images turns up some possible solutions, like:
http://www.whigham.org/baby/2011/Apr...nt%20legos.jpg

I know I played with some gigantic Lego's growing up, ones that are at least as big as the balls we had this year!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Man I missed out, I never had giant Lego's when I was a kid! Your right though those would make great game peaces. :]

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

That's an exhibit - a full LEGO model of Manchester's historic Millyard- from the SEE Science Center, a museum that shares a building (and founder) with FIRST. So what this says is - yes, they took it in the GDC game lab (or at least in someone's office).

aaand now I'm done with this thread. I will make my usual disclaimer: GO OUTSIDE, OR SOMETHING. Go do something other than FIRST for a little while - after all, in January, your life is consumed!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories about corkboard but I like the 3:00 minute match speculation.

In every round of matches, you have fixed time and you have variable time. Fixed time includes field reset and robot settup. These are basically the same every year at 4 minutes and 15 seconds. Variable time is the match itself. you can add 45 seconds of match without increasing the fixed time one bit. This means that a robot gets more guaranteed time on the field at the sacrifice of one or two total matches.

I'll illustrate with the district model because that is what I am most familiar with. Over the past few years we have dealt with match turnover times of roughly 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Multiply that by 80 matches and you have 8 hours and 40 minutes of qualification matches to play with. In reality a little more because of inevitable delays, but an equal amount of time should be reserved for delays in either presented scenario.

Now, lets say we add 45 seconds to each match to bring it to 3 minutes. That makes total match turnover time 7 minutes and 15 seconds. First of all, this added time ought to decrease some stress on volunteers, and cause an overall smoother competition flow. Second, if you divide 8 hours and 40 minutes by 7 minutes and 15 seconds, there is time for 72 matches. If we assume 40 robots at the competition and a traditional 3 vs. 3 style game, there is a reduction from 12 qualification matches to 10.8. So, probably a loss of one match depending upon how they treat the non-whole number.

Despite the loss of one match, each team has gained an extra 6 minutes of field time, which should not only be more enjoyable for students, but improve the quality of rankings and scouting. These extra six minutes should improve the sample size by which each robot will be evaluated, thereby giving teams truer results in their scouting data. It's akin to getting an extra month of sampling when evaluating a baseball player. The peripherals of the robot will have a better opportunity to normalize the randomness of the results much like the extra moth of playing time for the baseball player, and regression will pull unlucky teams closer to their true talent level, meanwhile luckier teams will regress in the opposite direction and design flaws have a better chance of being exposed.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Lyric:

Please...Not Overdrive...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Oh, now you're just ruining all my fun! I can't go outside or my boss will yell at me, and I've gotten all nostalgic for my old Lego's today!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The Lego facts are pretty interesting in themselves. I am very curious to what the game might be. If they're attempting to cross games again, much like Logomotion with FTC, it's now time for a link for FRC and Lego League. However, these wouldn't be your ordinary legos...:yikes:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I wouldn't be surprised if alliances needed to work together to build a structure, lego style.

In other words, pick up building blocks from a dispenser or a field, and construct a specified object while working with your alliance partners.

Of course the goal would be to build the object faster than the opposing alliance.

And suddenly, Minecraft, on water, with robots, in FIRST.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

How about giant foam legos?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

This is the result of a Google image search using the image's URL - http://bit.ly/RU6lct

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

YES PLEASE! That would be such a fun game to watch. Robots have to build things out of giant foam legos for points!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

YES PLEASE! That would be such a fun game to watch. Robots have to build things out of giant foam legos for points!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

LEGOs would fit the trend that this year is a nonsport, and would be a great game piece. But i think its less about the LEGOs and more about the giant 3 on the side of the building

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Maybe...

Three minute match separated into four quarters of 45 seconds each:

Q1 = 45 second hybrid - longer-than-normal time to allow use of sluggish Kinect - robots from both alliances are allowed access to central third of playing field to capture (and never give up) open-topped drums of their alliance color and to gather red/yellow/blue balls
Q2 = 45 second period where only the red alliance is allowed to enter all three playing zones to gather balls. Blue robots may not change zones but may play defence and protect their drums. Robots employ RYB color sensor to sort balls. Only balls matching your alliance color in drums of your alliance color at the end of the match count toward your alliance's score - yellow balls represent contamination and reduce score.
Q3 = 45 second period where only blue alliance is allowed to enter all three playing zones to gather red/yellow/blue balls. Red robots may not change zones.
Q4 = 45 second endgame - robots from both alliances are free to roam the entire field. Alliances decide to have their robots hold their drums secure or leave the drums behind to climb the podium steps at mid-field. Max coopertition points if all six robots end up on the podium at 3 minute mark.

Either that or a tug of war.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

If you pause the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video right where the picture was taken its when he was saying "up" so I'm thinking it has something to do with some sort of elevation ...a little far fetched but when aren't the hints.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Please not another foam gamepiece.

Just ask anybody who worked field reset this year... FRC robots tend to chew them up pretty quick.

At BMR it got so bad that there were barely enough good balls left to play with by the time elims started... Same for innertubes. Not durable enough for FRC play.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Just want to point something out. Never gonna give you up came out in 1987, 20 years after that the game Rack N' Roll was used.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Actually, it points to FIRST HQ.

The world has never seen a group of people who have taken such interest and delight in being rickrolled.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Im more concerned with the fact that that he says that "we know the game, and were gonna play it"

In the recording off the "Behind the Game Design" videos FRC put out on their channel, he DOES say that they are not above replaying games, and that, as a backup to rebound rumble, they would have basically replayed Aim High.

Personally, I believe that would be really lame, since some teams have played that game before, others have not. It would really not help with leveling the playing field.


But, more then likely, I think were probably not supposed to pay attention to the video that much, as it IS used to troll people, and this isnt really an "Official" full blown hint as Libby Kamen said.

Things that probably are significant:

The pushpins:
If they had only put three pushpins on there, I would think that a red, yellow, and blue pin represent a new alliance, but the fact that they put a fourth red one on throws me off. If they really wanted to convey that idea, why not just leave out a pushpin? It doesnt make since to me, and has me wondering why there are two red...

The time of the screenshot:
3 minutes in? Probably a longer match, including a longer auton period. Why? Because they want the kinect to be more part of the game this year. A longer auton would mean utilizing your sensors correctly is even more important than before. Plus, if they lowered the match time for teleop, people would probably get mad, so they increased the game time.

Thats all for now

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Bam! New signature!

Thanks, StevenB! :)

Also, this thread is so much fun, I have nothing useful to add, but I'm really enjoying reading it. :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I think this is the most likely scenario.

I can't see 3 alliances happening. I think that's a false lead, and the 4th pushpin implies otherwise.

After thinking about it, I'm almost positive that your second point is correct. Currently matches are 2 minutes 15 seconds long, with a 15 second hybrid period. I wouldn't be surprised if the hybrid period was extended to 30 or 45 seconds, with a 2:30 or 2:15 teleop period, respectively.

Since it's easy to program a 15 second autonomous with an efficiency difficult to match with the Kinect, I see this as a fairly straightforward method of incentivising teams to use Kinect without introducing a potential imbalance if it were to be heavily weighted in the points.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Some initial thoughts myself. Some seem to have been discussed in this thread, maybe some not. Catching up at 35K feet, crossing the Rookies, I may have bounced over something!

1. The picture, as best I can tell, according to the video I found online, is actually at almost 3:01. So not sure if the "3" exactly is what they were going for. At the moment of the screen cap, he is mouthing the word "Up" in the song. I think we are going to be seeing a lifting aspect of the game, both of game pieces and prob other robots - including opp alliance robots. Elements of Rack 'n Roll and Coopertition like last year's bridge, and maybe Overdrive.
2. The video, if the three minute mark isn't the primary driver of the screen cap, has several locations. In this segment, Rick is singing on an elevated stage, with two women next to him - so three participants. I'm guessing we're staying with the 3 v 3 standard, but perhaps need to finish with the alliance members on an elevated area. Elements of Aim High with the ramp.
3. The dining room where this is happening, has a number of empty tables, with chairs stacked on top of them. So I would lean towards a stacking game. Elements of Triple Play.
4. For the push pins, since I see parts of other games in this, let me go a different direction from the rest of the discussion. Taking the push pins in the order in which they are placed. Starting at 12 oclock and moving clockwise, perhaps they are indicative of the periods of the game. Yellow being AM or some kind of hybrid mode. Based on the outcome of that, let's say "Red" wins AM, "Blue" is now on offense first, while "Red" is on defense for the second period, or first period of TeleOp. Next, Red is on offense, while Blue is on defense. Lastly, because Red won AM, they get some benefit of being in control of the End Game. Elements of Aim High.
5. Since the hint, its self, is a picture. Expect a emphasis on cameras, and image capture capabilities, probably for AM, and for distant aiming. Certainly the push over the last several years.
6. Lastly, I'm not convinced we are driving on cork, or that cork has anything to do with playing pieces or surfaces. I can't see theme returning to something like Lunacy in terms of playing surfaces. So why the corkboard? I think it has to do with the function of a corkboard, a place where you share information with the public. As with Rack N' Roll (and to some degree Breakaway), and the lifting requirement, there was a need to share design ideas so there was some kind of standard designs for the lifter and the liftee. I expect that to be a greater push, forcing teams to come to some kind of design standard for those kind of activities.

Okay, my $0.02 (or 0.0154 Euros)

Forgive any typos - balancing laptop on a small tray, bouncing my way East!

Steve

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

So a Rack 'n Roll, Rebound Rumble, Overdrive, Aim High, Triple Play, Lunacy, Breakaway fusion mix, with an emphasis on Rack 'n Roll and Aim High?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Exactly, except I forgot to add perhaps pushing objects up a ramp, too ... so elements of FTC Bowled Over!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Or Stack Attack :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Yes! The GDC emphsiased (sorry, on a cell phone) their want to continue with the kinect and use it more. I never thought about that, it is a picture OF a picture.

Once again, in those GDC design videos (watch them! Theyre very interesting!), they emphsiased their want to use the vision systems in general more.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Well I know this is stupid and it will most likely not be a water game. However, I just have to mention that cork floats on water.

Maybe there could be a pool in the center where the game elements are floating on water. I don't know where 3 would fit in though. Also this is a huge stretch.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Since posting this is clearly saying they will troll us I think there will be a sealed container of water somewhere on the field that serves no practical purpose whatsoever except for them to say they finally did a water game.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

One picture, a lot to digest.

I definitely wasn't expecting a hint this early.

I'll have to wait for the next one to actually formulate some good guesses.

For some reason, I had the idea in my head that there would be some sort of target shaped like the Bohr model of the atom since it's its 100-year anniversary in 2013. But that's coming from a chemistry nerd who remembers everything she sees in her textbook.

VERY excited for kickoff and anxiously awaiting next hint.

As for the one we have right now, I'm very much with the 3:00 match length. I would look at the three colors as three alliances but that red pushpin throws me off. Maybe the yellow tack has something to do with autonomous? I'd think if there was a third alliance its bumpers would be white, but I don't know... Sometimes I feel like a rookie *facepalm*

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

3 Feet of water :D

But in all seriousness, I'm not entirely sure this is a hint. Read the 5th or 6th post talking about a member or the GDC. Plus, it didn't really have the fanfare of a hint. I wouldn't take anything from this except the concept of 3. And that the GDC loves to troll and everyone on this thread is unhealthily addicted to FIRST. Myself included :D Hooray for FIRST Fever! "Official" hints are given in December right?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

FWIW, I did go outside yesterday and the grass is now shorter.

Haven't seen a lot of discussion re: the background in the photo, and FIRSTers are nothing if not subtle. I agree with others here that we're about due for a stacking game. Does anyone else think the background is reminiscent of a milk crate? Or, could "desert you" refer to ice cream (cones)? Just havin' fun....

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to wait for the first 2013 game hint before I start thinking about it.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Let's look at the photo really quickly...I see 3 push pins and 1 tack. Let's imagine 2 bots start at each pin, Blue for Blue and Red for Red, and then 1 Red and 1 Blue at Yellow. That means the fourth pin could be a dispensing area? Everyone is so obsessed over Rick Astley. Maybe we should be thinking about the pins the simple things that hold that picture there.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

In the frame of Never Gonna Give You Up that we are given as the hint, Rick is in the middle of saying "never gonna run around and desert you."
do with that what you will ::rtm::

PwnyBoy

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

FIRST has been in existence for 22 years and Rick Astley's song "Never Gonna Give You Up" was released in 1987. If you add the 22 years to 1987 you get 2009, which was Lunacy. 20 years after 2007 was Rack N' Roll and people say you have been "Rick Roll'd." The lyrics "Never gonna let you down" can be related to the 2005 game Triple Play, which had tetrahedrons that go along with the repetitive 3s. Also in 2005 on the game field there was the blue and red alliances and yellow triangle markings on the field like the picture on the cork board with the yellow, blue, and red pushpins.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I find this ironic. In English class our teacher's tell us how there is symbolism and such, and we don't understand it or think its there. Then FIRSTer's get a Game Hit, and we think EVERYTHING is a symbol and has some significance.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Yes, I totally agree, and that this is really being over thought. Usually the GDC doesn't announce official hints until late November/early December, so this might be a distraction from what the game really is.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Do you think it could be a game where you post pieces of the FIRST logo on a corkboard or magnetic board? Or is that to similar to logomotion?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Yes, what does the number three signify? Tell us, Data. :)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Star Trek Game?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Hi.
Luke from Team 3335 here, figure I'll put in my two cents.
Let's break this hint down, shall we?
First we should list every element in the image. We have:
4x Push Pin:
-1x Red
-1x Orange
-1x Yellow
-1x Blue
1x Rick @ 3:00 of the original video
1x Cork Board
1x Metal Border for Cork Board
1x White Background Wall

Now we should figure out what each of these items could mean individually.
Push Pins:
-In recent years, we have seen the act of pinning another robot to a wall or some other form of restricting movement, often by pushing them, as a disqualifying offense. On the other side of the end that is pushed, is (we can assume) a pointy part. Ergo, I draw the conclusion that pushing and pinning another robot will make for a painfully-given red card; nobody wants to be disqualified, and nobody wants to do the disqualifying!

Color scheme of push pins:
-Red, Orange, Yellow, and Blue. The first three are your basic "warm" colors, whilst the only "cool" color present is Blue. At first glance, this would suggest there will be some form of quadruple-team arrangement. However, I find this to be unlikely, as rearranging the field in such a manner as to support four teams would be impractical and costly. Not to mention 6/2 equalling 1. Eight robots on that size of field would be preposterous, let alone 12. Instead, I find the objective to be to obtain objects of various colors (red, yellow, orange, blue), with Blue and Red objects being obtained during autonomous mode.

Cork Board
-Clearly representative of the field, the cork board is what the push pins are pushed into. This is a very obvious sign that the floor will be either made of a cork-type material, or perhaps some of that squishy floor rather than carpet. In other words, expect a floor with a little bit of give to it.

Metal Border for Cork Board
-Obviously the metal border is the metal barrier around the outside of the field. It's sturdy, rigid, and only received one dent from my team's robot that it couldn't easily have buffed out of it. (We're sorry for that, Lone Star Regional. We were rookies and didn't know we needed to cycle the power after a round.)

White Background Wall
-I assume that the space not contained within the field will be some sort of white color to aid in photographic purposes when taking pictures from the stands, as well as making the lines of tape on the floor that guides robots on and off the field easily visible.

Last but not least, Rick.
-There are numerous factors to Rick's image. His microphone might suggest the use of ultrasonic sensors to detect distance would be useful this time around; perhaps to guide robots during an autonomous period for some purpose. The idea of a 3-alliance match is unlikely because it would probably require significant modifications to the field, which is, again, impractical and costly. Finally, the lyrics of the song suggest the game may involve attempting to attain and hold on to as many objects as possible, perhaps the opposite of Lunacy, where robots tried to score into other robots.

All of these together tell me we will be having a squish-floored metal-bound field with a white flooring around it. On the field will be Red and Blue alliances of 3 teams each, who compete for orange and yellow objects during the teleoperated period and attempt to obtain Red or Blue objects, respectively, during the Autonomous period.

I am sure I am not the first to draw these conclusions, and I know it is possible that I am completely wrong; my guesses as to last year's game involved a trapeze and water balloons.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The GDC has probably been trying to figure out how to sneak a RickRoll into a game hint for several years now. I'm not an expert, so I can't tell if the RickRoll was edited into a photo taken from a phone or if the RickRoll was printed, tacked up, then taken as a photo from a phone (as implied).
fotoforensics

The RickRoll ELA is a darker image than the surrounding image. However, given that we don't have enough comparative surface of solid colors, nothing's conclusive -- the white paper obscures the ELA of the RickRoll photo edge. The fact that all pushpins are totally obscured in the ELA is interesting, but I don't know enough about it to draw a hypothesis as to why. Assuming the bottom left pin is flat, all of the shadows line up. Given the GDC's history of adding fluff to hints, I'm going to presume the flat pin simply means the person who tacked up the photo only had 3 non-flat pushpins (i.e. don't look into it too much). The jpeg quality (90%) implies that the photo was saved twice (once when taken, once after -- probably a crop), but that's subject to the default jpeg quality of a HTC Evo 4g.

So -- nothing conclusive, but the GDC should beware that the internet provides many resources to figure out their schemes ;)

FYI, the guy who made Fotoforensics also writes a blog I read weekly (you know, while code compiles...).
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/

Some very interesting articles about photo manipulation there.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

wow.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Wow, I cant believe all this attention for an obvious joke. Very funny GDC, looking forward to the real clue in december

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Are you kidding? We live for this kind of abuse.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm gonna laugh when the GDC numbers the first official game hint #3.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Im sorry people, but there is no orange pin! They are BOTH red (And the same red, at that).

Took RGB values from the center of each pin:

Top "Red" pin:
R:244
G:27
B:36

Bottom "Red" pin:
R:245
G:33
B:29

Saying that, according to here, "Orange" requires a Green value of over 120, plus them being almost the exact same color, Im fairly certain there is no "Orange" pin anywhere.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Ooh, the #1 plus #3 game where everybody goes on a wild goose chase finding a nonexistent #2?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Which we will take as a hint that there is no 2nd alliance on the field and we are back to 5 v 0 game

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

YES

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I don't know about the 'don't look into it too much' (you never know with the GDC), but I can confirm that, having interned for FIRST and being particular about my cubicle decorations - you can never find ANY pushpins that match in that office.
:)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Could the image from the "RickRoll" video perhaps be referring to a specific game element, such as a rolling goal?(like ftc 2010-2011's moving goals)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Usually when a song or singer photo is used such as in 2011 in Logomotion the yellow tube was a score multiplier when placed during the autonomous period. Now knowing FIRST they will likely have the game name in reference to one of Rick Astley's songs. However the placement of the tacks i doubt is coincidental. 2 red, 1 yellow and 1 blue. It cant be that the red alliance would have significance then the blue alliance since alliances are chosen at random for teams, both blue and red. I do believe that the tack in the lower left hand corner is slightly different then the other tacks. It looks more like a flat head tack then a traditional extended head tack. It could also be Photoshopped in. It looks rather different then the rest of the photo. The game in itself could have something with the one of his songs as well. I find it highly likely that his song "Never gonna give you up" is the song of choice. Such as keeping a specific item from the others "Your never gonna give up your said item"

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

WATER GAME! Always a water game...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

In all seriousness about the pins, what if the game objects are colored, like in VEX Gateway, so all goals are neutral and its the objects that score for the team. Also, the objects stack and there is a yellow multiplier object.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Wait... Call me crazy, but there's the mic in the picture. Maybe the addition of voice command? Like the addition of the Kinect last year.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Could it be that we will have 3 teams? maybe a 2v2v2 red, blue, yellow? 3 minutes into the video, 3 different colors. Maybe the reason the one red pin is different is because it doesn't count. It's not a real push pin, so thats not a real team location...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I cant see definitive proof that both of the red pins look any different, it just seems like the viewing angle causes it to look a little weird. They both have shadows, too.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm not sure about that. You have to stand several feet away from the kinect to register movements properly, and the amount of ambient noise in the stadium would make voice controls a very inconsistent proposition.

I also can't see 3 teams, since that would require an unorthodox field shape and pose all sorts of issues.

The way I see it, there's 3 main possibilities.

1. Longer matches. The screenshot was taken at exactly 3:00, and a longer hybrid period would make the Kinect a better proposition without introducing balance issues. In a mere 15 second hybrid the benefit of Kinect over what you can easily script is practically none (if not net negative) because scoring your starting gamepieces is about all you can do in that much time. Double or triple the length of hybrid, and now that entire 30-45 seconds is available to you without having to use extraordinarily complex vision processing, and Kinect becomes very heavily incentivized over a vanilla autonomous program.

2. Triple Play part dos. It's been brought up year after year in speculation (never gonna give you up...) and it fits the "sport-original-sport" schedule.

3. This is technically an unofficial hint, they're rickrolling us and it's a dead end. An ever-present possibility.

I'm going to wait until the official hint before I make any bets on anything though.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I agree. There must be a reason for the two red ones. What about unbalanced (as in number of teams per alliance) alliances? For example, perhaps the red alliance is made up of two teams, the blue one, and the yellow one:
red alliance: two teams
Blue alliance: one team
Yellow (new) alliance: one team
(I guess the yellow and blue would really be "alliances"
when you are a red alliance, you have strength in numbers, but goals scored would count less (or half) of goals scored by yellow or blue.

This would add another layer of complexity to the game, and I also agree with other's posts that a 2x2x2 and definitely a 3x3x3 would get way too crowded.

Thats my two bits

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Red, blue, and yellow pins, photo of Rick Astly.... YES! IT'S A WATER CHALLENGE!!!!!!

Now that that's out of the way...

I think that the recurring number 3 was just added to troll us. I would love to see a close rerun of triple play though (Never gonna give up the game??) It's my favorite game, so this would be so cool.


As far as speculation into a third alliance goes, 2 vs. 2 vs. 2 would be really interesting, but it's reading a bit too far into this. IF we're going to pay that much attention to the pins, we might as well consider a 4 vs. 2 vs. 2 with some sort of twist on scoring and multipliers as well as heavy cooperation.

From the picture we can speculate the challenge may have some play on music or sounds though. Vocal commands during hybrid?

Screen shot was taken at 3:00, so longer match maybe?

If we go by the "You know the rules and so do I" , I think of Lunacy. It was 4 years ago, so some teams probably still have at least a few members who were there during that year. Would explain the white wheels, and perhaps 'roll' refers to the reappearance of a moving goal. I would like to see this too.

Equally possible is that we're just providing some lunch-break entertainment for the people in the GDC. Can't wait to see what they send out next.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

It could be done using the current field layout... just put one team from each alliance on each end of the field. Each end would have a red, blue, and yellow driver's station.

Since each alliance is split up like that, the microphone could be that someone on each drive team would have an earwig and microphone headset to communicate with their partner on the other side of the field.

Just a random guess, but I think it might be an interesting idea.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

One random thought I had with respect to 3 alliances is it would also address another issue facing FIRST right now. It would reduce the number of teams qualifying for World Championships.




(Although, that doesn't seem to apply this year, based on the number of teams allowed to register.)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Why's that? You could do a lot of things: think about Rack 'n Roll with 3 alliances, 1 robot of each alliance starting on each end of the field. You could play anything Lunacy-like (please, no), or Overdrive-like (maybe smaller balls...), or even a weird Breakaway-type twist: 3 goals on each end, one for each alliance. No need to limit yourself to a something offering a sort of three-way symmetry.

That said, I don't expect a 2v2v2 because: the change to the FMS and other tournament structures doesn't seem worth it, it makes it more confusing to spectators, and I confess I don't really see the benefits. But heck, it's the GDC.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Another issue with 2v2v2... alliance selection will become even more unbalanced. Right now, someone in the 8th seed can progress pretty far because they get 2 picks in a row. In the first seed, they can form a "super alliance" with their first pick, but their second pick ends up providing some balance, since they pick last.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

You all do realize that anything you may discuss on this thread is sure fodder for the 2014 game, right? (How else is the GDC going to come up with crazy ideas--oh. Wait. Nevermind.)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Didn't they design 2014's game already? I've heard rumors claiming they design games two years in advance ever since 2009.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

AFAIK, 2 years in advance was a fiction in 2009. It wasn't until at least 2011 that they started doing that.

As I understand it, it goes like this (we'll just go with the 2013/2014 games):
Kickoff 2012 happens. At that time, 2013 is well under development. Sometime around the end of the competition, 2013 starts the refining process (applying 2012 lessons and some tweaks) and 2014 starts the conceptual phase. Right about now, they'd still be in development on 2014, while making sure they have all their ducks in a row for 2013 Kickoff.

So, no, 2014 isn't designed, it's in development. I'd bet that 2013 is designed but not quite fully tweaked. 2015 is barely being thought of... yet.

At least, that's what I remember the process being, or something like that.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I keep thinking back to Dave Lavery's "Hints." Because he was on the GDC, everything he posted was examined, torn, spindled, mutilated, and discussed to the nth degree. I am thinking that this may be the same. ::rtm::

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Anyone remember the pictures of the elves carrying the "hint" sign last year and how they fit into kickoff? Yeah, I have a feeling this will turn out similar. People stressed over them and it turned out it wasn't any help at all.
Now on the other hand, there may be something small being showed in here, just nothing major. Anything it possibly does show, is something we already expected. For example, many people probably expected longer match times as has been discussed already.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Lol mutilated? Oh jeeze:ahh:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Perhaps the fact that there are two red pins implies unbalanced gameplay, like maybe the red alliance's goal will be different from the blue alliance's?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Don't the rules about the wildcard slots say "Wild Card slots are filled in the order of:

1. Finalist Alliance Captain

2. Finalist First Pick

3. Finalist Second Pick

4. Finalist Backup Team"

Shouldn't this insinuate that there will be alliances of at least 3?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Actually... It does the opposite. Alliances of no greater than 4 (including backup). More likely, alliances of no greater than 3.

Before 2005, there were 3-team alliances in the eliminations--but only 2 teams were on the field. (Exception, 2001, 5-team alliances with 4 on the field.) So, it is entirely possible that two-team alliances are in the offing--pick your own backup, play them at least once per round. The backup team in this case would be played under normal 3-on-the-field rules; teams just get more time to take care of broken robots by sitting them out.

Or not.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Word is ...Arduinos are in the KOP. It could very well be the return of the minibot.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Maybe Never gonna give you up means you need to accumulate game pieces by taking them away from your opponent.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

aybe 'Never gonna give you up' means that they're not going to give up any hints this year.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

maybe descoring

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

This would be interesting and cool to implement technologically, given that I suspect they'll stick with some sort of automated scoring (or at least quick with not many extra volunteers).

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Uh, who's word?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Never gonna let you down
Or run around and desert you...

New endgame... Robots can climb onto a partner and be driven around a circuit and across the finish line!