Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

i noticed that too maybe its 1v1v1 and that other tack represents a goal to score in

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

What if its like king of the hill and theres scoring periods if its three minutes with three alliances maybe 1 minute blue has to score while not giving up control of the goal (the goal being the fourth tack) then 2nd minute red thn 3rd minute yellow it seems fun

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

so other noted this but that bottom left tack looks flat what if its a 1v1v1 yellow blue red and its like king of the hill or a capture point game where tht flatter tack is the capture point tht one alliance has to obtain while the other two try to capture it sounds pretty fun to me and the never gonna let you go lyric would play into that capture point game

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

blue = oxygen?
red = hydrogen??

yellow = never gonna' give you up electron (Intermolecular Coulombic Decay)???

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

FIRST HAS BEGUN TO TROLL
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Were probably build a robot, send it in and then on the day of the competition, THAT song plays....

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The field will be divided into 4 areas. The red and blue pushpins are where the endgame takes place. The red thumbtack is where robots get their scoring pieces from. The yellow pushpin is where the coopertition part takes place. The rest of the field, is covered in water. (Well, maybe not that, but it will probably be fairly open.)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I would honestly laugh if Dean Kamen said that while he was on the podium at kickoff.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

With the inclusion of an infrared remote in FIRST Choice, as well as the line in the song "never gonna run around and desert you," it seems like an overdrive connection.

Or it could be a red herring, of course.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Alright lets work through this. Never going to give you up was a music video that appeared in 1986, the same year that Denmark won their first gold medal in the summer Olympics in the javelin throw. Javelins were first used by the romans to counteract their opponents calvary. The term "cavalry" originates from the dinosaur "cavelirous ursa". So the only logical thing the game could be is.. Robot dinosaur battle.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I don't know if this has already been discussed but in the song, rick repeats

"We know the game and we're gonna play it"

Updated previous game? maybe

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Assuming this is a real hint, the song is off of the album, "Whenever You Need Somebody." Maybe back the 2v2 with a reserve, but 2v2v2 each with a reserve? That would be kinda cool.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I thought that too, and thats what scares me.

Personally, I think thats pretty lame, because there will be two distinct groups of teams playing in such a scenario.

Those who played the game once ago, and those who didnt. Unfair advantage, maybe?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

If it's not a recent game (aka past 3 years), then there won't be any returning students. It's kind of hard to quantify the impact returning mentors can make, however the further back you go, you get fewer of them as well.

Further, with sites like the blue alliance, if it is a replay of a previous game, then everyone can learn the exact same information: how to play the game and what designs did well.

Also keep in mind that aspects of games have already been replayed recently. LogoMotion was similar to Rack 'N Roll when it came to picking up and hanging tubes. Rebound Rumble involved picking up and shooting balls, much like Aim High.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm not so sure there would be an unfair advantage, especially if it were an old game.

Take Maize Craze for example. You could exchange the corn to (something equally obnoxious like) ping pong balls (try driving on those :P). Change the balls (for scoring) to bean bags (floppies anyone!!!), and maybe a few other tweaks .....

A game we all know (hence the rick-roll hint) but not giving any advantage. ***for that matter, Maize Craze would support the 4 thumbtacks (4 robots/teams) as well :eek: ***

Is there a second game hint out yet???

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Sure, totally agree. I was referring to a COMPLETE repeat, or a near complete one. Like Rack 'n Roll vs. Logomotion is fine.

I am just saying that if they we to repeat something really close, like for say, Overdrive, teams with mentors that played through that whole season + offseason event would have a pretty good idea what mechanisms work and what dont, and how to build them. Heck, they might even still have the robot in their shop.

I dont know, independent of the team age thing, it just seems like a bit of a cop out for the GDC to me as well.

I mean sure, you could say that using the same carpet on the field lets teams use pretty much the same drive train, or same set, every year, but the lower you get the 'complexity' of the game, the harder things are to change year to year. I completely get the re-use of game pieces.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I think I found something big for this years game hint (a lot of research), Rick Astley was born on February 6th, 1966 (his picture was the game hint), on this same day in 1892 a man (Scientist/Doctor) named William P. Murphy was born, he died in the year 1987, 1987 is the year Rick Astley's song Never Gonna Give You Up came out (the Picture for the hint is from this song, and it was his biggest hit), William P. Murphy's son William P. Murphy Jr. had worked with Dean Kamen (that's right our founder) in founding FRC robotics (he was a co-founder in this and many other programs). Now keep in mind this game may have something involving and Up/Down motion because of the song. Also the pins placement/colors may be a hint, there are 2 red 1 yellow and 1 blue. Something else to keep in mind is that Rick Astley is still Alive, and preforming music, and he may do something that relates to the game (his site: www.rickastley.co.uk).

GameHint
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...Game%20Lab.jpg

William P. Murphy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_P._Murphy
http://www.nndb.com/people/287/000127903/

William P.Murphy Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_P._Murphy_Jr.

Rick Astley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Astley
http://www.rickastley.co.uk/biography/

Dean Kamen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Kamen

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Certainly more to the Rick Roll than meets the eye!

First will.i.am, then Rick Astley? Hey, stranger things could happen.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Dancing robots?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Genius!!

i would never have made this connection...
We are going to stock up on Dinosaur parts and possibly Danish Javelins...
( I think Walmart just dropped those items from their online store though...
this, in itself, is a hint....

Cavelirous ursa... the bear like dinosaur....


In truth, scouring the large box, sporting goods and toy stores for items that they are discontinuing after Christmas is a reasonable approach to finding out what the gamepiece may be....

I'll get on that right away....

Wal-mart season, only can use parts u can get from Wal-mart. Besides the first provided electronics. :p this would be awesome

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that FIRST for the past 3 years has used the color yellow to signify the END GAME portion up on the game clock on the screen at FTC and FRC regionals alike.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

All pins are equivaillent to 40 seconds
Red - Teleoperated
Blue - Auton/Hybrid
Yellow - Endgame
This will
Teleoperated 1 - first 40 seconds
Auton/Hybird - next 40 seconds
Teleoperated 2 - next 40 seconds
End Game - final 40 seconds

That would encourage Kinect use because you probably won't start exactly like you need to.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

That, along with the fact that the screenshot is from the 3:00 mark exactly, might actually bear some weight.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Fun fact about the "repeated game" theory: At FRC Live this year, Bill Miller said that if they didn't make a 2013 game in time, they would just play Aim High again. He also said that they did manage to make a new 2013 game, so that wasn't going to happen. That's probably good, as two shooting games in a row wouldn't be fantastic.

I don't think a replay of an old game would be that bad. The best games seem to be at least a little rehashed.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

"You know the rules and so do I"

We're replaying last year's game!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Just wanted to float this really old video out there to answer everyone's questions about next year's game. Even though it was about the 2002 season, it still holds some merit. Pay attention to Dean and Woodie at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ua5iYUI6A

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Hint or not, if you want to guess what the next year's game in one FIRST program, it will serve you well to look at what the other challenges in other years have contained. Last year FRC had balancing on bridges. The year before that FTC had (wait for it) balancing on bridges. This year FLL has, yep you guessed it, balancing on a "bridge" or at least a tippy platform.

Last year FTC had a flock of little balls, a couple of bowling balls, and some crates to stack. How much of that makes it to the 2013 FRC game remains to be seen. In the light of all the analyses that mention rolling, never giving UP and knowing the game, etc., it would seem that ignoring the other programs' games will leave out too many possibilities.

This year's FTC challenge has rings on pegs and lifting the alliance robot off the mat in the end game. Sound familiar?

Oh, about the third alliance idea? Hate, hate, hate the prospect! Irrespective of having a crowded field, anyone else itching to make a third set of colored bumpers? That's the payoff for inventing faster ways to change them? Thanks, but no thanks, GDC!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I thought he said that if they didnt make a new 2012 game they would replay aim high.

Yeah, that's what he said. ^
There was no reference to aim high for 2013.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

This is from the first page of this thread.

Have you ever seen those boats that tow logs near logging camps? Like these:



Sticky = sticks, which come off of logs.

Maybe lake as in water game?
Robots are boats that have to drag logs into their zones. These logs will gather X amount of points. More advanced robots can pick up the logs and move them to conveyors along the perimeter of the field. These are worth Y amount of points. There could be platforms (6 for 6 robots) around the outside of the field. The robots would have to pick themselves out of the water and move onto these platforms.

There's my crazy idea :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

And I thought Truck Town was crazy before James joined...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I think the word you're looking for is terrifying. ::ouch::

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Made my day.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Oh god rotfl.

Seriously though. There is a guy in one of my classes that says "Water game" like it's a thing but he has no idea about robotics. It's creeping me out.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Hm... pins... rolling... Rick Astley...
Bowling?

Or potentially, since a rick is a stack of some sort of crop plant, it could be a game about stacking something (tetra or Rubbermaid tote anyone?), and potentially knocking it over with what I would presume would be a type of ball.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Could be, check out last year's FTC game animation http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...easons-archive , its got bowling, knocking things over and stacking....hmmm

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Three minute match duration per Rick Astley still photo.
At the centerline of the field there are eight duelling tree targets (something like this: http://www.kisstactical.com/catalog_...oduct_id=11725). On every tree each of the eight individual targets has a different color on opposing sides (red, blue, yellow).
Prior to the match, the red alliance secretly pre-stages colors on targets on four of the eight trees (north side of the field). Blue does the same for the four other trees (south side). Alliances can divulge the target color pattern to the opposing alliance prior to the match or not (aka rick-roll).
The hybrid portion of the match starts when the tarp (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?p=1192364) is pulled back revealing the trees and target color combinations.
Two of the three alliance partner robots begin the match tethered together (explains the reference to a number of "couplers" in FIRST Choice).
During the 45 second hybrid mode, robots attempt to create columns of targets facing them that match their alliance's color (like the game Connect Four) by selectively shooting targets on the trees. Less advanced teams use the IR remote while more advanced teams use the Kinect to steer, detect color and aim.
A sub-total score is captured automatically at the end of hybrid.
Similar play continues in tele-op.
At the end of the match, Connect Four type scores are tallied. Alliances get bonus points for maintaining their two-robot tether (www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-009.htm) throughout the entire match. Extra bonus points are awarded to both alliances if, at the end buzzer, one robot from the red alliance is tethered to one robot from the blue alliance.

Either that or a robot tug of war.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

This year's FLL game also has a bowling mission.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I dont think anyone said this before, and very interesting. I think that piece of evidence is worth more than anything we've had or a stacking game so far. It also sounds like something the GDC would do. They're smart people, Im sure one of them knew what a "rick" was.

Then again, they could not have and it could be a coincidence (I'd like to think it isnt though :) ).

The lead character on The Walking Dead's name is "Rick" Grimes. Zombie Apocalypse game. I declare it to be true.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Well, I just figure they're pulling a 2011 where they give us the name of the game early, which in this case would be "Rick Roll", and thus leads to the natural question of "What's a rick?". One google search later, and that's what I came up with.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I disagree with bowling. Not in a bad way, but if you'll notice, the FRC game was a sports related game last year (basketball).
2010: Breakaway: sports related (soccer).
2008: Overdrive: sports related (NASCAR. Yes, it is a sport).

Notice the pattern? Every 2 years (since 2008) there has been a sports related game. If they continue this pattern, it probably won't be a bowling related game. I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, but I'm saying I think it's unlikely.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Is bowling really a sport though?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I think this pattern is pretty apparant, but just because they've followed it in the past doesn't mean they must continue to do so.

From a personal perspective, I'm very much in favor of sports-related games. They are far easier to explain, and therefore more captivating, to those outside of FIRST. Explaining that you are "building a robot that plays basketball [and balances on a bridge]" is far easier for someone to visualize and understand than "building a robot that puts up inflatable tubes in the shape of the FIRST logo on a wall of pegs [and deploys a minibot that climbs a pole]". Logomotion was a great spectator sport for those in FIRST and casual fans alike, but explaining it beforehand was a bit more difficult.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Ooh boy, not sure we want to go there :P Any Big Lebowski fans around?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Not only is it easier to explain, but it makes people more impressed/excited about the game. Robots that play basketball sounds a whole lot "Cooler" than robots that hang innertubes on pegs.

Of course they both get me very excited, but then again, I live FIRST.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I totally agree here - although last year was my first year mentoring a team, I think the simplicity of the basic game made it exciting to watch and really showcased the driving ability of the drivers - they weren't having to think about complicated strategies; just play the game. I think these type of games are really positive both to those watching as to those competing. I hope FIRST continues in that vein!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I would disagree with your point that "they weren't having to think about complicated strategies" -- strong alliances always have incredibly well planned and cohesive strategies.

Bottom line though, keeping the game "consumer friendly" is something I hope the GDC definitely continues.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

As a driver at an off-season event, I have to say that there were tons of strategy items you had to consider to be successful.
Do we balance or do we keep shooting?
How far down can we let the timer get before we just don't have time to balance?
Do we just keep trying to shoot from the key, or do we try to draw a penalty from a robot trying to keep me off my favorite shooting spot?
Do we risk going in the lane, or is there an opposing robot nearby that can make us pay for even trying to collect those balls?
Do we tell one of our alliance partners to go feed me balls to shoot from the other side? (See: Team 16 The Bomb Squad on Einstein, assisting teams 25 and 180)
Do we go for shooting, or do we protect our alliance partner that has to be in contact with the bump to score?

Unless your robots and drivers are just a dominating combination on shooting, your strategy has to be a bit more detailed than "We're going to try to score more points than the other team."
I'm not saying I don't like that strategy, but if you're using just that, you're either doing very well, or very poor.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Maybe ice hockey based? The original name of ice hockey is dutch roll, and there is a famous player named Rick.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

There have been many ideas that have come forward, and I have noticed that these bear significant weight:

Bowling- Some people believe that it is bowling themed. I say your crazy. Why on Earth would FIRST make such a risky move as to make game pieces bowling balls? That's just asking for somebody to get hurt. Yes, FIRST has had some other elements that we have proven to be possibly dangerous, but bowling balls is just too far. FIRST would never do that, due to the risk of getting injured. It would also be very hard to manipulate, trying to make a robot that can orient and grab a bowling ball in the finger holes is a huge challenge. Bowling balls are also very hard for those of you who have never bowled. Robots would be denting the snot out of each other throughout the competitions. And the risk of a robot malfunctioning and throwing a bowling ball is way to much. What if a ref was hit and suffered an injury? FIRST isn't famous for taking huge risks when it comes to safety. And the basic logistics of it even being about bowling would be very hard. What would happen when all the "pins" were knocked down? And even if it was just the bowling ball used in the game, the danger is just too much for me imagining FIRST being ok with.

Lyrics- Those are way over thought. Enough said.

Picture- The most valid point I could find there is that it is a frame from exactly, and I mean EXACTLY, 3 minutes. This may mean that the game lasts 3 minutes. This seems like a typical FIRST clue, it doesn't give too much away about the game but if figured out can provide a valuable tip. But not enough of a tip to think about designs or game strategies. There may also be a hint in the fact that it's Rick Astley, but it's probably so far out there and complicated that by the time we find it we go right past it and write it off thinking we haven't searched deep enough. This strongly reminds me of the Little Eva picture from 2011, where the message was very simple: Locomotion, External Vehicular Activity, and mirror image. FIRST has found that we think about these things so much that by putting the answer right in front of us they have hid it in the best way possible: in plain sight.

We are strongly underestimating FIRST by overestimating their will to hide things deep in complexity. Usually there is only one "hint" in each clue to come out, so I'm betting that this one's message is that matches will be 3 minutes or something will be relating to 3 minutes, and FIRST decided to have some fun by:
A. Rick Rolling all of us.
B. Putting pretty colored thumb tacks on the wall to confuse us and make us think there was a hidden message there.
C. Showing some of the cork board to confuse us even more!

There is also a theory of a remake of Stack Attack. Stack Attack is the definition of "good on paper, bad in reality." FIRST has learned from that.

There is nothing much to be determined from this until we see another hint. But you guys can keep over analyzing this as much as you want. Best of luck with that!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

FTC game last year had a 6 lb bowling ball as a game piece. Granted, it was never more that 1 foot off the ground.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

You're assuming that bowling must be played with bowling balls. Bowling doesn't have to be played with bowling balls any more than basketball has to be played with basketballs.


Note: I don't think it's bowling either (not enough 'constructive' action), just pointing it out. Also, it'd be pretty easy to set up safe pin resetting for human players.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

On that note, have you noticed a small trend? It seems like some of the games are being traded between FTC and FRC. This year, the FTC game is very similar to 2011 and the FTC game from 2010-2011 had the bridge elements that FRC had last year. It is quite possible that the bowling idea will also be crossed over.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The FTC Game is also similar in that this year the FTC "theme" is mars rover, similar to 2009's FRC game Lunacy. People have been saying that they see an alternating pattern between sports then FIRST creations in FRC games. This is a very recent trend and I believe that FIRST will break it as to prevent people from thinking that. And this trend is very young, 2002, 03, 04, 05, 06, and even 07 were all FIRST creations, not anything like sports. I don't find it safe to assume that the pattern is intentional.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I have to ask how is 2006 not a sport? it more closely resembles the play style of basketball (offence defense swap) then this year.......

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Well I usually think of basketball as shooting balls through a hoop on a horizontal plane, as opposed to vertical. Because of this, and with the fact that there are no well known sports involving vertical hoops, I consider the pattern to have continued through the 2006 year. If you really wanted to be argumental, I am sure that there is a sport somewhat related to every FRC game, I am sure that somewhere somebody has made a game out of knocking down and stacking back up boxes.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Look up the Mayan Ball Game... It was the first organized sport in known history, and had vertical hoops (although I believe these were added relatively late in the game's history)!

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Does quidditch count?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Mark's figured out next year's game!



Yeah, I know, but wouldn't it be awesome?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Regardless, I still stand my ground on the philosophy that the meaning of this clue is that matches will be 3 minutes long. It would be a very subtle hint about the game that does not give away so much that teams can begin thinking about strategies or designs. And seeing that this year could possibly be a year where FIRST wanted to have strategies have a large impact on match outcomes, if matches were 3 minutes, it would allow time for more complex and developed strategies. We would all also have less matches, making it important to utilize any strategies teams can because it is important that they try to win as many of their matches that they can because there are so few. All that is needed is a coopertition system or a new kind of qualification scoring system that makes it so that when you lose a match, you have a chance of coming back from that loss.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

This seems very likely - the chances of the GDC "accidentally" posting a screenshot from precisely the 3:00 mark without it meaning something seem very small.

With longer matches, a fewer number of them seems like a given (unless they can miraculously speed up the queuing, loading, unloading processes considerably, which seems unlikely given that many events struggle to stay on schedule as it is). Less matches seems like a bad thing at face value. Less time to recover if something goes wrong. But strategy would become more important than ever.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I have estimated that if matches are 3 minutes, teams will have approx. 5 matches at Championships, assuming that there are 3 robots per alliance and the divisions are about the same size as last year (100 teams per division).

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

When I was thinking of game ideas, the first thing I thought of was "How can you have a longer game without decreasing the number of games?" The answer is simple - more robots on the field. Assuming a fixed 4 minutes between games, a 4 minute 4v4 game gets teams as many games as a 2 minute 3v3 game. Of course more robots on the field may increase the downtime as well, but it's certainly an idea... and hey, wasn't everyone talking about the 4 pushpins like 100 posts ago?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Every year we keep saying that this is the year where they have 4 robots. I am not sure that 3 minute match would qualify as a reason to have 4 robots, FIRST would have to completely re structure the picking procedure, match schedules, etc. And when you think about it, 8 robots on the field is a lot, with 6 it is already cramped. If they were to have 8 robots on the field, without making the field larger, the game would probably have to be a challenge that does not require precision.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The robots could be made smaller.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

1073 had a brainstorming session at the end of our last meeting; here's what we came up with:

Robots could be required to utilize sound in some way, since this picture is musically related.
It could be some sort of keepaway game, since we're "never gonna give it up."
We might not be giving up an old game and returning to it.
Pushpins could either signify the addition of another alliance (due to the yellow pins) or that we have to start and end matches on the corners of the field.
Since Astley was dancing at this point in the video, the game could rely on the Kinect.
And hey, it could even be a flying game this year! :) ("Never gonna let you down")

Also, one of our past team leads was interviewed for a FIRST scholarship video. She asked the guy for a game hint, and he sort of gave her one: it's going to be played on a field! Does this mean no water game?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/ge...reduction.html

Now why would VEXPro, especially after their pledge to FIRST Robotics, release a gearbox that is compatible with 3 CIM motors? When has a team ever used 3 CIMs on one side? Could the be a subtle hint?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

You might really be on to something. Cue some ridiculously powerful drivetrains in 2013...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, and I don't usually muddle over game hints, but I'll give this one a shot.

The picture is held up with push pins.
The lyrics read Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down.

In 2002, Zone Zeal, alliances played a tug of war with movable goals, pushing them across the field and battling for them with grippers, as if to never give them up.

The lyrics also work in another regard, in that if 2013 was a rehash of 2002, we wouldn't be giving up on the original game.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Maybe we shouldn't jump to the 3 CIM motor conclusion too fast. The VersaPlantetary, which is run by either a FP, BB550, or BB775 motor, is designed to mount anywhere a cim motor is mounted and there is an option to have a cim output shaft, making it nearly identical to a cim as far as output goes with the right gear ratio.

Perhaps VexPro didn't want to add the possibility of a smaller motor reduction to the gearbox and instead gave us the option of mounting a 3rd CIM or using a separate gearbox to interface with a non-CIM motor.

On the other hand, the idea that this year's game could warrant a 6 CIM motor drivetrain is very exciting as well.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

The most logical conclusion (seeing that it appears multiple times for multiple different reasons) would be that the game something to do with the number 3. Whether this is a 3-way match between 3 alliances, triple sided game pieces, or 3:00 matches, we don't know yet. Also, a water match has been brought up several times in this thread, and we are going off of one Facebook post for that.

Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PSueHOY-Jk ;)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I'm sure I'm wrong, but like everyone else, I like to speculate.......

I agree with others here who think we'll have a 3 minute game. The hint may mean nothing more than that. Just like FIRST to float a tiny tidbit. A longer game may mean a more complicated task, like gathering and/or stacking.

I did a little research into early PC games looking for anniversaries. Turns out that the predecessor to Minesweeper was called "Mined Out" and released 30 years ago, in 1983. So, there's your "water" reference :D

Some might say we're due for a unique gamepiece, maybe like the tetras from the past, or another shape constructed from PVC. Imagine collecting or stacking gamepieces for points, while avoiding the "hot" mines. If you really want to get crazy, you could make the "hot" mines a Roomba. Contact with a "hot" mine would mean having your robot disabled (by means of the infrared remote) for a period of, say, 15 seconds. Another good reason for a longer match?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Many, many teams have built 6 motor, tank drive, systems in the past. I can think back to 494 in 2004 I believe (2 drill, 2 CIM, 2FP), and there was probably one before that. We did one ourselves in 2008 using 4CIM + 2FP.

This is more of a feature thats moderately easy to include, so why not offer it?

I personally read nothing into it.

-Brando

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I didn't know that teams did do 6 motor tanks. It makes sense to do if you can spare the motors. Guess that means there won't be uber powered 6 CIM drives. Darn.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Many teams in the past few years have built the capability into their drive as well, however to save weight or to use the 5th and 6th drive motors elsewhere, didn't implement them.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I don't believe that the clue is hinting towards 3 CIM motors. This is enough information for teams to start designing drive trains and other various parts of their robots. FIRST would not let out such a clear hint hinting something as large as that because they do not want teams to start designing things before build season, and as proven on Einstein last year, honor systems aren't fool proof. I still strongly believe that his hint is showing 3 minute matches for the increase of strength by using strategy. If you have no idea what were talking about with 3 minute matches and strategies, or how we came to these conclusions, check a few pages back :)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

You know you guys are talking about different clues, right? (They're talking about the VEXpro transmission; you're referencing the 3 minute screenshot. Not that the transmission is actually a game hint.)

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Okay lol I've read enough, time for my opinion.
I find the repetition of the number three to be interesting. I think that the 3:00 match idea could be plausible.
Through my own deduction I find it very likely that FIRST will give us some sort of stacking game this year. They've done many games with shooting/herding balls and hanging tubes recently, I think it's fairly likely that we will see some sort of stacking game. The idea of the returning tetras could be the case.
As to the song title, I had the crazy idea that maybe this game will have something to do with robots attaching to each other. I also think that the possibility of having another endgame that involves lifting/positioning your robot could also be likely.

As to the pushpin/thumb tack observation, you are mistaken, they are all the same it's just that the one on the lower left is lined up with the camera. So I don't think that there is anything there.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Well this is the thread for the rick astley pic, so as far as I know we are all referencing the rick astley photo. But yes, I believe they were talking about the transmission when they referenced the 3 CIMs.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Dean Kamen has got to either be laughing his head off at all these inferences...or genuinely impressed.
To me, probably the hint would be in the thumbtacks. Which, as readers have noted, include one yellow thumbtack. Could the game this year be a 2 Red vs. Blue + Yellow? Maybe the yellow team will be a wildcard that enjoys special privileges?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Also, the game that had lifting of robots was called Rack and Roll, which sounds very similar to rick roll. Im on board with this.

Aren't we due for the "real" (as some describe it) hint soon?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Having robots elevate each other is very possible as an endgame. The GDC loved making it the endgame in FIRST's earlier years, and we haven't seen robots elevating each other since 2007. Sometimes it's nice to go back to the basics.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Depends:
- For 2012 it was actually a like week before this: 2 Dec, which was a Friday
- For 2011 it was actually December 21: 2nd-to-last Tuesday in December; the 18th this year
- For 2010 it was the 24th: 2nd-to-last Thursday; 21st now
Kickoffs were 7-Jan-2012 (1st Saturday), 8-Jan-2011 (2nd), and 9-Jan-2010 (2nd). This one is 5-Jan-2013 (1st).

So we're overdue by 2012 standards... but relative to 2010-2011, we could even have like 2 weeks left. No worries, we can enjoy the annual red herring thread until then!
On the note of 'this is the rick roll thread'--creating new threads for every red herring--the IR remote, the clear-sensing sensors, the 3-motor gearbox, and whatever else comes out--is a little overkill, isn't it? We've traditionally co-located these up until now.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I think you should be apart of game Design :ahh:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I see a bit of shadow under it, so I think it just looks that way because you are seeing it head on.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Welcome to the 2013 FIRST robotics competition and this year's game, Eye Spy. Eye Spy is played on a 27x54 foot field. Two alliances of three teams each stand on opposite sides of the field.

Each team will receive in the kit of parts a "Target Board". Surrounded by 3/4" PVC is a 1 foot hard corrugated board with a Sight Target on it, similar to that of the 2010 target, however one side confirms a Red Alliance and the other confirms a Blue Alliance. A Robot must have the Target Board on their robot for each match - it my be placed anywhere on the robot and maneuvered in any way, but can not extend outside the frame perimeter. A robot that plays a match will need the Target Board to be set at the side with their alliance color.

The field contains a number of EYE TOWERS. An Eye Tower is made up of a short-range optical sensor and two LED light bulbs - one Red and one Blue. When the Target Board of an alliance robot is aligned at least 1' away from the optical sensor, the sensor recognizes the target and lights up the bulb of the corresponding alliance color. There is one Eye Tower in front of each Human Player Station, and there are three at various heights on the long sides of the field.

During a 15 second autonomous mode, robots use pre-programed instructions to "capture" as many of the Eye Towers for their alliance as possible. Kinect Drivers can also be used to control the robots at this time. At the end of the PreGame Mode, the alliance that captured the most eye towers gains a 1 point bonus.

During the remaining 2 minutes of the match, alliance robots will do what they can to capture eye towers. Not only can Eye Towers be captured, but also converted from one alliance color to the other. Red alliance will try to convert blue towers into red, and vice versa.

Also during the match, robots will have the option of controlling one of three BASES. These are large octagonal shapes, similar to that of the Zone Zeal goals without the PVC pipes. The Bases are not used until the final 30 seconds of the match, in which robots are able to climb up onto the Bases to score additional points. (The Bases are 2 feet high, and on casters) Additional CoOp points will be scored if two robots of opposing alliances are on top of a single Base.

No rules against pinning in this game, similar to that of 2009.

1 Point is scored for each Eye Tower an alliance has captured AT THE END OF THE MATCH.
1 Point is scored for being the alliance who captured the most Eye Towers in the PreGame Mode. (1 Point for both if both alliances tied)
1 Point for each Robot on the top of a Base at the end of the match.

In Elimination Matches, one of the three Bases will be removed from the field, and one Base will be marked for only the Red Alliance and the other for only the Blue Alliance.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I completely agree on the 3 min rounds but the 3 alliances is not plausible. I don't think the game design committee would make that happen if it has been 2 alliances for the longest time.

On what i think about the game i think that for the end game the robots will have to lift each other up because in the song he says "never gonna give you up never gonna let you down and hurt you" which means you will be lifting robots up and if you let the robot down you might hurt the robot.

Also when does another game hint usually come out because the suspense is killing me!!!:ahh:

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Bottom line the game design committe likes to impress. They want the game to be fun to play and fun to watch. They want there to be suspense, anticipation, and excitement. While, yes, using the same alliance setup as last year is easy, what happened in past years doesnt mean certain things cant change. If I was on the GDC, I would love to suprise the heck out of everyone (and rick roll you all). While logistics and practicality may stop me from doing so, Id still like to do it. Plus it would make for some interesting strategy.

While I agree that I think we will have 2 alliances in 2013, anything is possible.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

*claps*. Heard it in Dave Lavery's voice.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Our team thinks that because of the song is titled, "Never Going to Give You Up," we are going to have to hold onto some ball or item and "never give it up," or never let go of it, sort of like keepaway.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Is there really a 3v3v3? That would be very interesting to watch but also complicated! i am new to this and am wondering....What are the hints? What are they leading to? Is it a hint on how to program a robot? Or is it a hint to the theme of the game next season....that would make sense because water could be a theme, but I'm still confused about the 3v3v3

:ahh: v:confused: v:D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Dear Lavery Claus, I have been a very good boy this year. Since it's that time of year again, and we've all been good here this year, I would like to request that, if you're planning to say something that sounds even remotely game hint-like, that you would please do so now. My family wants to see me for at least an hour this year. :D

Sincerely,

The CD community.

P.S. A water game would be great, too. :D

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

There will not be a Three Alliance game in FIRST. We already have some teams on alliances that fudge their scores so a top seed doesn't remain so. A Three Alliance match will eventually lead to two alliances ganging up on the other for the mutual benefit in the long term. If they do anything, it will be a return to 2001 where everyone on an alliance works together to reach a mutual goal. And going back to that is a long shot.

Three minute matches are possible, especially if there is an element of "keep away" to the game. Such as, one robot has to make sure they don't give up a Golden Ball because it's worth 30 points at the end of the match and the other normal balls are worth 2. However, I am unsure if going to 3 minutes is a good idea from now on. Consider if every game designed thus far was given an extra 1 minute to play. Logomotion would have the entire racks filled, Rebound Rumble would make bridge scoring either worthless or too important depending on the match, Aim High would have longer periods of play, and Zone Zeal and/or Stack Attack would be that much more boring to watch an extra minute of nothing happening.

there would have to be a good reason to change to 3 minutes, and that would be "because the game as it is designed requires it". I'm going to then guess that if we are headed to 3 minutes, then it will only be for this year and not for future years. (or be an every 4 years thing)

The real question is this: What kind of game can't be played in just two minutes?

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

I was thinking that because of the increased interest in the Kinect, and how almost nobody used it last year, they would use the extra time for an increased Hybrid period.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

That still leads to more watching carpet collect dust. They'd have to make a pretty darned good incentive to get some teams to try it. We had our Kinect working for control, but then deemed it unnecessary as 15 seconds is not much time to do things, as we were able to do everything via autonomous that we would have wanted out of hybrid.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Aside from all the spurious guessing, I'd like to take a moment to thank the GDC for waiting to release an official game hint until finals are over. Not sure if that's on purpose, but it ends up working on my end.

- Sunny G.

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

That was my point, having an increased amount of hybrid time means that you have to do something in that time. And a whole minute or so of a robot that can only get info from a kinect means that you are probably gonna want to use the kinect. Id probably want to tell my robot something over the course of a minute. How else do they get people too use a game element? They make it more necessary to succeed.

Though, Im biased, as I am a programmer at heart and would probably rather the whole time be autonomous anyway...

Re: 2013 Game Hint!
 

Perhaps there won't be a rule limiting you to one or the other. Completes autonomous task and then activates Kinect.

Even without that, you can still simulate one by linking a command group to a kinect "button"