FIRST Choice
 

FIRST Choice is now available at http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice...show=80&page=1

Some things that stand out:
Talons: (Legal maybe?)
IR stuff: similar to 2008?
Eccentric Bearing: what could this be used for, other than some kind of game object?
I/O module:???
New window motors: what differences are there?
Snow blower motor: new

Re: FIRST Choice
 

2013 Manual not withstanding in the past FIRST choice has been synonymous with included in the KOP.

New motors, likely to be three motor controllers to pick from, and a whole slew of new toys.

Anybody else have an Overdrive flashback when they saw the remote?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

More like a nightmare, but yes.

- Sunny G.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Ring light- retro reflective tape (?)
IR remote- some sort of IR receiver on robot (?)
Photo switch- lines on field to follow(?)

cRIO- YESSSSS
Classmate- YESSSS

There are defiantly a few items on there that are worth a game theory. Also I can not be more excited to see the cRIO and classmates on there for this year, well done FIRST choice, well done...

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I am looking for the post, but I believe it was stated that anything on FIRST Choice will be 2013 FRC Legal. Looks like Talons are going to be allowed.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The most interesting thing to me is the gaming graphics card. Could there be something in the game that requires a lot of graphics processing on the robot or are they just making it available to help teams who want to cad?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Nvidia has been handing similar cards out at a few regionals over the years, I think this must just be an extension of that.

We have 2-3 gtx 480's from them.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Talons ARE FIRST legal, per an email just received from AndyMark. $59 base price - quantity discounts available.

http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm

Re: FIRST Choice
 

And I just went to look at them, and they're $59! Talk about competition being healthy.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

IR transmitter
Infrared Thermometer
New motors?! =O
3D Print Job voucher? Awesome!
Laser distance meter for your robot? Are they changing the laser rules?
cRIO as a part of FIRST Choice?!?!

This is awesome!

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Or $54 if you buy 4 at a time.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Hmmmm. I wonder if there is an even bigger discount for 20 :D

Regarding the IR remote control - please please tell me that's not coming back...

Re: FIRST Choice
 

And we just bought 12 of them. Sorry IFI, we were about to buy 10 but this was an offer we just couldn't refuse...

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I doubt circular saws are legal* for the robot, but they're on FIRST Choice.

*maybe if you filed down sharp parts to R0.125 ...

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I see a ratcheting subtheme. And braided steel cable. Winch game?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Emails from AndyMark are considered an official communication from FIRST? Could you point me toward that ruling?

I would infer rather that they are legal because they are in FIRST Choice, not because of the AndyMark email.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

FIRST really needs to come out with an official statement on which motor controllers will be legal and soon!

Re: FIRST Choice
 

What are jaw couplings used for? (I've linked one of the many on the list.) I'm normally more electrical/programming than mechanical, and this is a new part for me.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Two jaw couplings go together with a rubber piece in the middle to create on shaft coupler with some advantages over just a solid connection. Here is some information from the manufacturer of the ones we have used in the past.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/...couplings.aspx

Re: FIRST Choice
 

They're used to connect 2 coaxial shafts together (one driven, the other the driver). They generally isolate shock between the components and can handle some amount of mis-alignment between the axes.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Considering this post on FRC blog (the last bullet point), I'd consider the Talon a legal controller for the 2013 season

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Or you could look at the subject of the First Choice email sent out today...

FIRST Choice Viewing Now Open/Talons FIRST Legal

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Circular postings?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

And which regionals might that be? :D

Re: FIRST Choice
 

We got one at both Portland and Seattle a few years ago. As far as I know, they only did it that year.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

maybe that is what the new bearings our for. Idea what if you had to winch yourself off the ground for endgame.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

We got a GTX 480 at LA in 2011.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The bearings with the groove around the outside, which come in eccentric and concentric varieties, are for the linear rail also avalible in FIRST Choice. It's leads me to think elevator game, rather than winch game.

Then again, we saw the same linear slides in the 2012 FIRST Choice, so take these indicators with a grain of salt. Besides some interesting indicators (IR remote anyone?), I would be very reluctant to deduce anything from this list other than that the Talon will be legal next year.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Smoky Mountain in 2011

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Orlando in 2010 and 2011

We got one both times

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The snow blower motor made me raise my eyebrow. So did the sonar sensor and the laser distance meter.

So we're either moving snow or playing Battleship.

Got it. :D ::rtm::

Re: FIRST Choice
 

or both :rolleyes:

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The eccentric grooved wheels, regular grooved wheels and guide track were in last years First Choice. They are nothing new.

Lot of things are Granger just clearing out old stock like the crank ratchet and steel cable.

So don't read to much into anything in First Choice game wise.



Focus on the lots cool stuff like the new Clippard tanks, new style compressors, new couplers, and talons. Great work by the KOP team.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I thought the Clippard tank was back from last year, and that the compressor was the same that was legal starting in 2011. Did I miss something? Does the compressor have a larger cubic feet per minute rating?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The new plastic tank is what I was referring too and the compressor is the same as the last two years but was never available in First Choice.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

circular saw? Battle bots? We don't need no stinking bumpers!!!

Re: FIRST Choice
 

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr.../blog-09-18-12

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Andy Baker not wanting to cheese off a significant portion of his customer base by lying to us is good enough of a reason for me to believe him. :cool:

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I would agree that there is plenty of evidence that the Talons will be legal. What I don't get is why FIRST won't be more direct on these things so all teams (especially rookie ones who who may not be aware of all the channels of communication) have an equal opportunity and understanding.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Why are the graphics cards available?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

"It’s safe to assume that if you see a robot component in FIRST Choice when it opens for “window shopping” on November 12th, it will be legal for teams to use in the 2013 season. Please don’t go all ‘lawyer’ on me with this one. Use good judgment. If you see a plasma cutter available in FIRST Choice, you should not think you’ll be able to put it on your robot. (Spoiler: There will be no plasma cutters available in FIRST Choice). "

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr.../blog-11-02-12

You can be sure that Talons, Jags, and Victors will all be legal!

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Animation and CAD software are resource intensive especially with rendering the graphics. High performance cards run hundreds of dollars to buy brand new. I am guessing the value in credits from Andymark in actual money would cost less than buying it at retail price.

I assume NVIDIA decided to not only give gfx cards to help teams at regionals they show up at but to all teams through FIRST Choice. I don't know if they offered cards for a generous discounted price so take it as just a possible speculation.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Not discounted, free! They donated them, I assume that is so if you like the card you may buy one for yourself, but ours is still nicely wrapped up because we haven't had the time to build a compatible computer :p (In close to two years!)

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I wonder if the items that can now be seen on FIRST Choice will not be in the KOP - joysticks, classmate, camera, batteries, window motors, pneumatics components ... ?

I was not on a team last year and I didn't see the 2012 FIRST Choice. How did it work last year?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Some items might be included in the KoP, others might not. For example, last year everyone got 1 battery (rookies got a second one) in the KoP, but you could order more on FIRST Choice. However, the compressor wasn't included in the KoP, but you could get it on FIRST Choice.

The best information we have right now is last year's KoP. With it, you can get an idea of what we might be getting this year, however it could all change!

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Thanks to this, Johnny 5 decided to throw some smack talk at the FRC 2013 robots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdCf5cicrYU

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Last year each team was given some amount of credits (I don't even remember how many) and you could select different quantities of things within limits (you could only get a maximum of 2 batteries, for example). We got to preview the items similar to this year, but we didn't find out how many credits we would get or how many credits each item would be until ordering went live. I think the quantities available were revealed at the same time The more popular (biggest bargain) items went VERY quickly, and once they're gone they're gone (sounds like that will be the same this year. Here's what we ended up with:

2 of : Battery (fc12-21)
2 of : Encoders, 2 pack (fc12-66)
2 of : Foam Basketball (fc12-58)
1 of : iglide Sliding Slewing Ring Bearing (fc12-52)
2 of : Limit switch, roller lever actuated (fc12-48)
2 of : Van Door Motor (fc12-72)

Re: FIRST Choice
 

I think of the same thing every time a snow blower motor is mentioned.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

What a great addition to the KOP, a window motor that has a real output shaft to mate things too. No more funny adaptors, cool.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Why is there an eight slot cRIO?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

This is probably a dumb question, but all the FIRST Choice items say they are out of stock. This isn't actually true is it?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

That's because you're not allowed to order them... Once FIRST Choice opens for orders it'll be sorted out. Some products would probably be Out of Stock again within an hour though :P

Re: FIRST Choice
 

What is the job of the 3M Link Connector?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The 3M Link Connector is...a connector. It lets you connect and disconnect wires. It's sort of like a tiny version of the Anderson battery connector, for 18 gauge wires. One of the models handles two wires, the other handles four. I think it's intended for ribbon cable style cabling.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Sorry I meant what they connect to, so they are just to connect to each other for easy wire unplugs?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Each team got 100 credits last year.
Apparently it's the same this year: YOUR TEAM GETS 100 FIRST CHOICE CREDITS!

To refresh our memories here's last year's menu listing the credits for each item. Bear in mind that the values may change this year, and several items are new.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Sorry, but the top of the page says: We probably won't know the credit value until ordering opens.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

What's the advantage of the 3M wire connectors versus an Anderson Powerpole?

Re: FIRST Choice
 

From the top of the page you linked to:

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Yea, missed that. Even without that message I'd suspect things would change for the actual opening day.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

The 3M Links are IDC (insulation displacement) connectors. You put unstripped 18 gauge wire into them and they pierce the insulation and make contact with the conductor. So you don't need to strip the wires, and you don't need to crimp terminals onto them.

Powerpoles, on the other hand, handle larger wire and a lot more current.

Re: FIRST Choice
 

No Disassemble! No Disassemble!

Sorry, I had to, saying that the programming team said that all the time in last build season.

According to the FRC Blog Talons are legal as well as IFI Victor 188 (I think this the number)

Re: FIRST Choice
 

Almost... Victor 888