2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

The FRC Blog had some important news about the 2013 robot radio.

Also, legal motor controllers.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

This is interesting. I've had nothing but good experiences with the Rev. B (aside from having to program them by hand). They've always seemed more reliable to me. My main concern is that they have less visible diagnostic lights. I'm excited to see what the other next steps are!

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

WOOHOO! They're Officially Legal! :D

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

My concerns with carrying the same radio for multiple years are the effects of long term wear & tear. Even though we don't use them constantly, I think the older radios become less reliable just from age and being driven into walls and other robots, having the power cut and restored repeatedly, suffering brown-outs, etc.

I loved the old black bridges, but the older they get, the more idiosyncratic they become.

I think the same of most of our electronic components. Many of them are really tough like the Victor 884s and last for years if properly taken care of and kept clean, but students change and things happen given the time.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I'm glad that they are standardizing everyone on the newer hardware. But my $0.02...it's going to take a lot more than a slightly newer WiFi radio to fix the underlying problems we've dealt with for years. Looking forward to the additional upcoming announcements.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I'm having a hard time locating information on the dlink 1522 rev b. Other than the front status light changes, are there any other notable changes on the router? Are there status lights on the back? Is the size/weight any different?

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

There is a difference on the back as well, the switch has no Auto setting and two different AP settings.



Here is the Rev B manual.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Where the switch on the back of the older version selected among AP/Auto/Bridge modes, the new one has AP2.4GHz/AP5HGz/Bridge. There don't appear to be any lights on the new version to indicate active wired network connections.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Okay, so not much changed in the physical size of the router, and there's no additional status lights. (Why less lights is better is beyond me)...Thanks.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I just hope they don't release a "Rev C" in January to confuse everyone!

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Now that everyone will have a 5Ghz radio...will they be switching entirely to that? In my experience (albeit limited) the range of 5Ghz is pretty poor but the speed and reliability seem great. Considering the field is a fairly small area, and that there will be a lot less happening on the 5Ghz band in most cases, that could be good...I trust they've taken this all into consideration.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Rev A supported 5 GHz as well. In fact, the field has used 5GHz for a couple of years now.

The Einstein report highlighted the "Failed Client Authorization" on page 7/8. Notably, they tried 5 different access points (including Rev B), and only Rev A was susceptible to the FCA attempt. Switching everyone to Rev B should help with this.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Ah, thank you for pointing that out. I did read the Einstein report but it's been a while. Any thoughts on why there always seems to be a request for all mobile hotspots to be turned off? Those typically run on 2.4 and wouldn't interfere with a 5Ghz field.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

You answered your own question... "typically" isn't good enough. Having a single team create a mobile hotspot on 5 GHz could be enough to disrupt play. Likewise, having laptops that support 5GHz attempting to create local networks could cause issues as well.

It's generally considered better in situations like this to put a blanket ban out there instead of trusting everyone present to be able to know the difference. Simply removing as many possible points of failure is just good practice, and one of those points of failure is the audiences knowledge of wireless devices.

Of note, At the last off-season event I was at, my new 5 GHz iPhone 5 could detect the field AP, while older devices without 5GHz could not (I looked out of curiosity after reading the Einstein report, though I made no attempts to access the field with it!).

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Indeed. For the same reason that Apple, Microsoft etc now ask all attending press to disable their hotspots during press conferences/demos.

That's really interesting (naturally there are tons of people with iPhone 5's now so I hope everyone exercises GP and self restraint).

On another note...I wonder if there has been any talk to release an updated FMS Lite. At all of the non-official events I've been to, field problems are incredibly persistent, and I hope that the changes and improvements brought to official competitions can benefit off-season events as well.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

California should soon (next year) have FMS for all the off season events. We used FMS Delta 2010 this year, it wasn't bad but the updated seasonal FMS would be awesome!

-RC

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

That's awesome news, thanks RC!

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Let's see if we can't clear some things up.

That's right, the field has been 5Ghz only ever since the new control system was implemented in 2009¹. There's a lot less going on in this band (in general), and there seems to be an easier time getting a clear channel at many venues.


It's true that only the Rev A radios were affected², however only that specific version of the Cisco 1252 firmware caused that effect.


A common problem that occurs with wifi devices in areas with a lot of networks has to do with the sheer number of networks, and the space in memory to store all of them. It is to my understanding after talking to field personnel at FLR that the issues that they see there aren't a problem with networks in the 5Ghz band, but instead with the vast number of networks filling up the memory on the bridge before the field networks are detected. As far as I know, there is no way to ask the bridges to search only in the 5Ghz band for networks.


Specifically, what information are you looking for? In my opinion, the Einstein report was pretty thorough on it's evaluation on most aspects of the field... Coupled with the FMS White Paper³, I think that FIRST has done a great job informing the community about the operation of their system, in addition to the challenges that they face, and that we face as a community.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Thanks for your great answers - cleared up a lot of my questions.

The Einstein report was outstanding in its thoroughness. It brought to light many underlying issues. They also implied (and Frank has also implied on the blog) that there are more announcements yet to come in terms of improvements to the control system for 2013. I'm sure we'll see exactly what this entails at kickoff.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

About the power connector on the 1522 rev a and b. Are they the same? In previous posts it has been mentioned that a specific power plug should be used and that the Radio Shack one does not fit correctly. Does some one have the correct power plug part number for the 1522? I think my team did buy it from rat shack and may be the cause of some of our recent 1522 reboots. I can't find that CD thread.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Does anyone have a link as to where we can buy the B version online? I can't find any online seller differentiate between the two versions...

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

The barrel connector is the same on both Rev A & B, but I'd have to look up the part number as well. I still have a bunch I purchased when we first got the DAP a couple of years ago.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

My understanding is that most (maybe all) DAP-1522s you can buy now are Rev. B. We also all are getting Rev. Bs in the kit.

Edit: It appears I was wrong about that first bit. My apologies.

- Oliver

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Be careful. New egg has the 1522 on sale. It is a rev A. They are clearing them out. I would be care full if you see a fantastic price.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Did you buy one, or just look at the picture? By my experience, you can't trust the picture to tell what revision of consumer networking gear you are getting. In addition, the retailer doesn't care what revision, and won't put an older revision on sale, as long as the part number is the same.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

This (the former) wasn't true at the few places I checked. It looks like people are trying to dump them, but on the other hand many aren't updating photos or adding the revision label. I'd make sure before purchasing, especially if it's a RevA photo (or specs, though that's difficult to pinpoint given the limited differences). At least several of the Amazon hits are still RevA. Best Buy took a looong time but claims it's B. AndyMark sells a definitive RevB.

EDIT
@Joe: Unfortunately, that makes it exceedingly difficult to verify which version anyone's selling. Most everyone I contacted, including newegg said essentially "we do have both right now, but can't tag for a specific order" (plus a couple "we don't know and can't find out"). Difficult.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I asked Newegg if they would differentiate between the hardware revisions. See their response below:

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

$15 more at AndyMark seem worth it to ensure we get the right version...unless anyone wants to take the hit and order one from Newegg and see what they get? Even then, it's no guarantee...they might happen across another pile of Rev A's

Newegg does offer will-call from their City of Industry location, I believe - might be an opportunity to check it out in person and cancel the order if it's not a Rev B? Not sure, haven't done it before.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Very true. We ordered a new radio from D-Link via Amazon before the MAR Championship and while the picture showed a Rev. A, we received a Rev. B.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I have an order in to Best Buy that's due by next week, if anyone wants to know about them. They claim they only have B, and went through several hoops to check. We'll see.

It's not game-changingly cheaper anyway though: $80+tax with free shipping, versus AM's $95+tax+shipping. I did it mostly to know (a little worried AM will run out the day we break ours...), and because I'm happy with their in-store return policy. Ordered today and my last return date is in like Week 3 of build.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

The 1522 we ordered from Amazon in January 2012 was rev. B so I think it would be virtually certain that you would recieve a rev. B from Amazon at his time.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

On the other hand, the 1522 we ordered from Amazon in February 2012 was rev. A.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

We ordered around or later than that, and it was also an A.

Nothing difficult is ever easy.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Here is one item that probably should have been on FIRST Choice, if only to make it easier for more teams to get the right thing. Granted, everyone gets one in the KOP but if there's one thing that every team should have a backup of, it's the wireless bridge. Consumer products like this are way too flaky.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

It may not be on FIRST Choice, but it IS available from AndyMark:
http://www.andymark.com/DAP-1522-REV-B-p/am-0839.htm

As they say,

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I'm confused - the blog post said all teams would get a RevB in the 2013 kit - why are people worried?

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Mostly about obtaining backups. We managed to go through 2 RevA's last season...

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

We ended up purchasing two from amazon to replace ours and for a pre-rookie for an offseason, guess I should go check and see what revision they are.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

We had to buy two more this year as well. After all the grief they've caused, I just plain don't trust D-Links for FRC. I hope RevB is better, but we intend to have at least one spare at all times.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

And they are presently out of stock at Andy Mark

November 19, 2012 6:00 PM Pacific Time

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Back in stock at AndyMark, and I also picked up the one I ordered from Best Buy today. It is a RevB, and they again confirmed they have only RevB versions. No guarantees from me, but at $80, free shipping, <3 day delivery (ship to store), and no-hassle returns for 60? days, I'm pretty happy. Then again, for $15 more, AM is still the only vendor I know that will guarantee is writing.

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

Best Buy redeems themselves for once :) And to think I planned to never set foot in one of their stores again...

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I wouldn't for another 48-72 hours. :D

Re: 2013 Robot Bridge-Rev B Only
 

I just returned from the Microcenter in Madison Heights, Michigan. I had to stop by to grab a router, and checked their stock. They had approximately 15 on the shelves, and only 4 were rev. B. Their price is $79.99, so it was a nice savings over AM. I picked up 2.

The picture on the box of the Rev B shows the new picture, and under hardware version on the bottom of the Box it says "B1". The rev A box says "A1".