Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Hello I have recently started a new team in in Chapel Hill, NC at East Chapel Hill HS. We have gotten the NASA grant and have the registration fee :D . I have some questions regarding the completion.

I will update this list as answers have been posted or new questions arise.

5. We still need to acquire more money for parts. I was thinking maybe $2000 (For everything other than registration costs.), is this a good estimate? (Note we live quite close to the regional, so hotels and transportation should not be an issue)
Also any good ideas for fundraising/companies that are willing to help?


I will update this list as new questions arise.

Thanks in advance!

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

About the only thing I could say you'd use with near-absolute certainty is something like the Talon speed controller or another battery. Your rookie kit will cover a lot of these things, and others are all going to depend on your game strategy. Tools like the circular saw, right angle drill, and multimeter (that's a nice one--we got it last year) will depend on what's already available to you.

Selling parts from the kit (and FIRST Choice is part of the kit) is frowned upon in the strongest of terms. Incorporating unused items in other team projects fares much better.

There are many threads on CD for parts and tools. AndyMark and Vex Robotics (also referred to as IFI around here for their parent company) are the two 800-pound gorillas of FRC-specific parts, but suppliers like McMaster-Carr, 80/20, Grainger, and even your local hardware store are all great suppliers to work with. We've found great success with square tubing and riveted gussets, but your team will have a particular style develop around its resources and expertise. There are tons of wrong ways to build an FRC robot, but also many valid ones.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Yes, while the items are free, teams pay the shipping costs for those items.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Raw materials/resources. Tools, metal, motors, gearboxes. Find what's available on FIRST Choice and grab the expensive items off that list.

To better gauge this, take a look at last year's KOP and what you receive.

Generally, for a team that's just starting up an inventory, you can generally put FIRST Choice to good use. As far as allowed is concerned, I haven't seen a rule about this, but I suppose the morals of this are up to your team.

Hmm, first I'm hearing about this. Since FIRST Choice seems to be companies dumping inventories anyways, I don't quite get this...

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Hello from 1610...

First you might want to contact team 3331 which is near-by to you for advice.
One of their mentors used to be on our team. We started in 2005 and still have
some things we've never used from our rookie year. You might want to hang on
to things even if you don't use them as one year you might need them.

Hand tools...you can never have enough of. A good drill press and miter
saw with a aluminium blade will help a lot. You'll need at least one good vice
and work bench. Be prepared to buy lots of parts , but if you design and
plan your robot well that will help keep the parts list (and spare parts)
down. Try to keep spares of your most important parts. You can never have
enough Victors and other controllers. In the off season they can be used for
practice and training. Don't forget the safety stuff. Keep plenty of safety
glasses and a good first aid kit on hand.

Its also a good idea to contact your regional director and area senior mentor
for advice and help. Other teams near-by can help sometimes. Your probably
going to go to the NC regional and they have a good bunch of folks that run
that.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Personally, I don't think $2000 is enough for other parts but then again we don't use a lot of KOP materials. Also you need to figure out which aspects of FIRST you want to participate in because if your team wants Team Shirts (Imagery) or Buttons (Spirit) then you probably will need more money

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

$2,000 for everything may be cutting it a little close, especially for a rookie team still building up. 2815's robot bill of materials was around $1,200 last year by FIRST's accounting rules--that excludes things like wasted material, prototyping, and parts under $1/each (they rack up!), but also includes things like extra speed controllers plucked from old robots that we didn't actually put out cash for.

Other things you'll probably wind up spending on:

• Team giveaways (buttons are the standard--ask around your school if anyone has a press)
• Team T-shirts (2815 has used rushordertees.com for a few years now, but you may have a good local source)
• Pit supplies (toolboxes, storage bins, display boards touting your work...)
• A flag (entirely optional--we haven't gotten one in four seasons--but it does add something to the on-field presence when the emcee's waving it)
• Tools, of course...
• A stand to hold that regional champion banner. (Gotta have a dream, right?)

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Team 587 just a few miles west on I-40 in Hillsborough. We would be happy to provide any help we can. We usually meet Monday and Thursday 5:30 to 7:30 at Orange High. Contact us before you come to make sure we're meeting.

I would advise getting on First Choice as soon as it opens and trying to score a couple of Talons. You are going to want a four motor drive and the Talons will sell out fast. A couple of CIMs to go with the Talons would be useful, but they are only $28 from AndyMark. A couple of batteries would also be good since it's hard to compete without four batteries. Other than that it is hard to say since we don't know what the game is and some game specific items won't be listed until after kickoff.

One thing I would do is download the game docs from last year and study the robot rules. Especially the bumper rules. Many rookie teams get bitten by the bumpers every year. It's never too early to get pool noodles.

$2,000 may be enough if you keep the robot fairly simple. We spend at least that on non-kit parts each year.

I would add a robot cart to Billfred's list. You will need one.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

A very important item to get is a good quality scale, one such as this one:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/OHA...XK1?Pid=search

It is important that the read out give you .2 lbs precision or better and be tethered rather than right on the scale, so you can see the weight of your robot while its on the scale. You'll want to have a 'weight budget' for the various portions of your robot and weigh things often. A common rookie issue is an overweight robot, resulting in major cutting when you get to the regional.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

I agree that $2000 might be a little light for robot build season.

As for fundraising ideas, we run to carwashes, one in the spring and the other in the fall every year. We make really good money on these. The trick is to pre-sell the tickets instead of collecting the money when people show up.

Approach local businesses and ask for a small donaton, like $100. The hardware store, the pizza place, even the gardening store and small service businesses.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

The money for parts obviously depends on what parts you use.

We spent about $3,500 last year (also our rookie year) on parts. We used T-Slots (Aluminum Extrusion) which was pretty cheap for the actual extrusion (maybe $500 or so total) but the brackets and bolts were INSANELY expensive, and ran us a few grand.

extrusion may have been about $1,000 actually.. I can't remember.

So yeah, if it's extrusion, which is a typical choice for an FRC rookie team, $2,000 may or may not cut it depending on a variety of factors.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Personally I think $2000 is a little short for cash. You guys should also go for grants from other companies, too. Ask if any students have parents that work for SAIC, or other STEM related business and if they can help in procuring some funds.
DEFINITELY follow Greg's idea and get a robot cart. You WILL need it.
I would get a bunch of ratcheting wrenches and nut drivers. Duct tape for emergencies. Clamshell computers. Game controllers. I'm sure there's stuff I left out.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

We ran on about $2000 our first several years, but TBH we weren't doing anything even close to "right". With KISS and a firm eye toward what you know you can do with the resources you have, you can have a great rookie year -- but things like team T-shirts can be surprisingly, even shockingly, expensive.

Don't be afraid to ask businesses to donate materials, tools, T-shirts, pizza, anything... Many are more willing to donate products than cash.

And please, don't be shy about asking nearby teams for assistance of any and every kind. From programming to machining to strategy to spare motors, veteran teams can be an absolutely amazing help to those just starting out, and they'll be overjoyed to help.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Welcome to FIRST! The rookie year is always an adventure, don't be afraid to ask for help from any teams near by.

It is very possible to run a succesful build and competition season with 2,000 dollars, however I think it would be beneficial to raise additinal funds for team shirts, buttons, giveaways, and printing fees for info packets to give out to judges; other teams; and local buisnesses etc.

check out this 'Fundraising 101' post for a really good list of fundraising ideas.

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Congratulations! Welcome to the hardest fun you'll ever have.

It looks like other CD members have answered your questions. But I have one pointer for you! Try and have a backup plan for paying for Championships. You never know! And lack of funds would be a horrible reason not to go.

Good luck this season!

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

^ Coming from the rookies that were picked by one of the strongest pairings of the 2012 season and were the first rookies to make Einstein in a few years. Have a plan. (If nothing else, it'll help pay for 2014!)

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Wow guys really appreciate your support. We are a bit limited for funding at the moment. :(

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

Have you contacted any local businesses about sponsorship?

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

In the few weeks until kick off I highly suggest you target local companies who can provide you with services or at least discounts.

It has been our experience that if you don't have a personal contact within the company to call and ask to set up appointment so that students can visit the place of business and speak in person.

But before you start cold calling companies, check and see who the students (and their parents) know.

Examples:

The embroidery shop that handles our schools athletic apparel heat fuses vinyl numbers onto our bumper fabric.

A family owned publishing company handles our printing needs and provides guidance as needed.

A media/marketing firm consults with our students on branding and imagery.

As a team we are shifting away from "just order it over the internet" to "buy local and help build a community."

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

We do a "sponsor vs pay" kind of membership requirement, where the students are required to generate some pre-determined amount of sponsorship money, or pay a fee to offset participation costs...even if we are in a situation where the current year's budget is funded, it creates a feeling of ownership and begins to generate a base for the following year (sustainability). Our budget and finance team has really come a long way this year toward creating a sale-able sponsorship "package". I'd be happy to share...we're only 90 minutes away - what works here should work in Chapel Hill!

Re: Some Questions from a rookie team.
 

All of the above are true-- especially regarding parent or personal connections. I can't give exact figures, but a huge amount of sponsorship for our team comes from companies that students' parents work for. As a rookie, getting sponsorships is very, very difficult-- planning on them the first year isn't always practical, which is why basically everybody has been advising you to approach small businesses. Local connections are the typically the strongest. One of the best things your team can do for itself is create a sound financial plan. This sounds daunting, I'm sure, and unless you have mentors with experience, you probably aren't going to have a particularly accurate plan. This is where other local teams come in. Many of them are successful and sustainable due to sound financial planning on their part. Ask them for advice-- what's a reasonable portion to spend on assorted subsystems? Remember that as a rookie team you get the rookie KOP, which includes a six wheel drive base. Knowing this, I strongly recommend you check out team 1114 Simbotics' "Kitbot on Steroids." It's set up for chain, and this year's KOP is belt, but the principles are sound. This drive train can be assembled very quickly-- and I would recommend doing so, because it's an excellent exercise if you haven't been doing anything in the offseason (which is common and understandable for rookies, as you don't even have a previous robot to look at or practice with). This also lets you focus your resources (both financial and human) towards designing any sort of mechanism to play the game. Never underestimate the ability of just having a robot that drives.

A common issue with rookies is trying to bite off too much. Karthik's second rule comes to mind here-- it's better to do a couple things well than everything halfway. This will also help your limited budget go further-- you have to live within your means, and first year, your means tend to be very limited. Thus, resource management is one of those massively important things for any team-- rookie or veteran-- to get right. Build that structure early, and for the love of all that is good in this world (cough FRC), keep track of where your resources are getting spent! My team is partial to Google Forms for part orders and requests (which also can make the BOM very easy at the end of the season), but a simple spreadsheet or written list is just fine, and will save you a lot of headache wondering what hole that money you spent all offseason raising went. I think most people tend to find it a lot easier to budget when they can actually see how much has already been purchased and how much there is left.

Someone else mentioned veteran teams. Contacting veteran teams is one of the best ways to make your first season an excellent experience. I believe someone else mentioned old parts, which is an excellent start, but you may also want to ask them about other possible ways to help-- many teams (especially well-established ones), if they have shop space, would be willing to let you come over and work with them for a night (or more,) if you want. This is a practice that teams in our area have found to be very productive, especially for rookie teams (2220 opened our shop for a couple of nights last season to other teams in our school district, and it was an excellent experience for both sides). Obviously I can't speak to the practicality of this due to my limited knowledge of NC geography and team locations, but it's definitely something to look into. A machine shop and students and mentors that know how to use it is worth more than all the money you can get in FIRST. Especially for rookie teams lacking more advanced tools, it's a huge benefit to the students (and sometimes mentors too) to know what else is out there to keep an eye on for future seasons.

At this point, I'm going to diverge a little bit from your question about what to do for this season's parts, and talk a little about next season (please don't break my heart and only exist for one year!). Your second year is absolutely crucial in maintaining a momentum and growing your resources- and it is easier to raise funds (still difficult, but now much more reasonable). The primary reason for this is that you can now present your robot to companies. My team has found that if we can get in the door and talk to someone from the company (and preferably show them our robot!), we can eke some sort of sponsorship from them. Once they have something tangible to see that they're sponsoring, they tend to be much more supportive; it's easier to sponsor a product than an idea. As to where these mythical "companies" come from, look at parents. I don't know what sort of companies are in area, but having someone on the inside to get you that first meeting or contact is crucial.

Geez, I ranted on. I hope (think) that was useful! And mostly on topic.

Good luck in your first FRC season, and all hopes that your team lives long and prospers!