Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Please, no... The most obvious defference between FTC and FRC is the robot size. If you needed to use a smaller robot, then you should go to FTC...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

NOOOOOOOOOOO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Okay so It's Game hint number three. "The power of three" is an episode of doctor who and Chibnall's(writer of the episode) brief from showrunner Steven Moffat was to "live with the Doctor — The Man Who Came to Dinner, Doctor Who style. The man who came to dinner is a three act comedy in which a man falls and injures his hip on the way to dinner set in the weeks leading to christmas. He slips on ice which reminds me of lunacy.

I take from this that the game pieces will be cubic, and the game will take inspiration from Space.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Size may be the most obvious difference between FRC and FTC robots, but it's certainly not the most important difference.

I, for one, would be happy to see a modest change to the size/weight limits this year - even if it's just for this one year. There's a rather fixed mindset in FRC when it comes to size and weight, and I'd love to see the GDC shake that up a bit. Besides the mindset changes this would force on veteran robot designers, also think about the possible changes to the game itself that would be possible with modestly smaller robots.

Hmm, lighter robots would float more easily - water game? ;)

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Anyone got a clue how long that remote is in the andymark list...

Neal

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Keep hustling cuz

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Smaller FRC bots......
This is what the Mayans were referring to....
My world is ending....

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

When I first read "A DINNER, MISSED" my first thought was that a longer competition day to longer matches means that everyone misses dinner.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

The power of three = cubes

The game pieces this year will be cubes.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Everyone missing dinner because of robots... Oh, the memories of build season. :)

On a more "related" note:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/09dadf4b4...11vmo1_500.png

"#nevergunnagiveyouup"
"#nevergunnaletyoudown"
Coincidence?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

The separate item, size 4" x 1" x 1", is most likely the Allen-Bradley Signal Light. Last year, the kickoffs were sent those lights separately from everyone's KoP. The size matches the box well if I remember correctly.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

AndyMark didn't invest in molding and manufacturing these wheels just because they thought they could sell a few.

I can almost guarantee these are the KOP wheels which would lend credence to the smaller bot ideas. Also the FIRST Choice hold back suggests that FIRST is changing things up a bit and want teams to be able to get extra chassis parts and wheels.

BTW I have worked at AndyMark in the past but my current job makes that impossible and I have zero inside information on this.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Hmmm. I still think stacking, but with a variable weight to size ratio...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

If that's the case, I'm wondering if the release of the wheel was one of the three "hints". Also, the picture of that wheel when it was released was the wheel on a sand dune, wonder if that has anything to do with anything as well...

EDIT: Frank's post of the kit frame being 6 wheel lends to this, since the wheels are smaller. I'm wondering what sort of overhaul the kitbot got. It could be nothing, but it really could be interesting. I think the biggest thing is the 30" andymark box. It's either a typo or a rule change...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Does anyone else think that this would support the statement, "you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012" Since the wheels look quite a bit like the wheels from last year?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Andymark released Plaction wheels in 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...light=plaction just before Lunacy game in 2009

Hundreds of teams use 4" wheels on 38x28" robots, and the 4" high traction wheels are just a smaller version of the 6" high traction wheels released last year.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

As a robot inspector, I am looking at the clue slightly differently. What if the clue was telling us more about the robot and less about the game? Every year lots of teams have “issues” with bumpers and understanding that what they call their robot’s “frame” and what FIRST calls the “FRAME PERIMETER” is not necessarily the same thing. Sometime back, I think in one of Bill’s blogs, teams were told that FIRST will be taking a hard look at the bumper rules this year to try to alleviate some of the confusion and frustration observed by both teams and inspectors. Maybe that was clue #1? Next we have also been told that the KitBot chassis will be a different this year. Couple that with the published box dimensions that (if you take as fact and not a typo) could lead one to conclude the KitBot chassis may be smaller this year. Let’s call that clue #2. Then the established clue #3 seems to refer to the singer Seal, missing something (i.e. “sliming down”), yet maintaining weight. This leads me to think that this year the bumpers must completely “seal” the robot (no gaps, no minimum bumper lengths, etc.). Also, I speculate that the robot must fit within the sizing box WITH bumpers attached. The sizing box may or may not be changed to accommodate a new robot dimension but the sizing box will include some sort of built in gauge or measurement system to check for bumper zone violations. The robot weight will remain at approximately 140 lbs (120 lbs + bumpers). I wouldn’t be surprised if the robots will still be sized 28”x38” but that will include the bumpers and the weight limit will be increased to 140 lbs but still won’t include the weight of the battery.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

From FRC blog comment section:

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Wow, I didn't see that. This is a rule change then?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Mini bot's are coming back :D

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

But but but but but but...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Every circle is similar to every other circle.

Rectangles with the same ratio of side lengths (38/28, 19/14, 28.5/21, etc.) are also similar.

Mathematically, there is no contradiction in Frank Merrick's statements. :)

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Sorry if I misread something, but all that Frank said is that there was no mistake made on the page. We assumed that the KOP frame dimensions may have been a mistake, since it was different from last year, and 8 isn't too far from 0 on the keyboard. That being said, it seems as if it's a rule change, unless the longer parts of the frame are hidden somewhere else. You can never rule out the sneaky GDC. ;)

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Has anyone else noticed that the new long AndyMark NanoTube rail is only 31" long? and the short is 20" long?

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0689.htm
http://www.andymark.com/NanoTube-p/am-0809.htm

Oh...and that's a 6 wheel drive in the "long" configuration and a 4 wheel drive in the "wide" configuration. I know this doesn't fit the kitbot box dimensions, but the kit bot design could be based off of these designs.

I can't say I've been all that attentive to AndyMark parts releases, but the documentation is dated June 2012. Please correct me if this part series has been out for longer than that.

If I'm not mistaken and these indeed were released in June 2012, then I guess we should have seen a smaller chassis coming a long time ago.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think he was replying to my message about what Frank said. Haha :)

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Keeping with the idea of three, could we see three differently shaped game pieces? Maybe tetras, track balls and rubber-maid containers.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Replying to my own post...I forgot to account for the 8" of wheels in those designs, so they are indeed 28"x38"

But, I suppose that begs the question that others have alluded to: What about the designs that are already out there for 28"x38". Sure, teams could be required to redesign, but there is an economy to FRC. What about the suppliers that have based designs on (and hence produced parts for) that footprint? Are they all just out of luck if the dimensions are changing?

Or, prehaps the dimensions aren't changing, but the kit bot is different. A 30" long dimension plus 8" of wheels is closer to the 38" we are used to. It just means that the kit bot frame doesn't "wrap" the wheels as it has in the past.

...As always with the hints, we are all merely speculating.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

...what?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I was merely suggesting that others may be reading too much into the dimension of the "kit bot" (AndyMark Drive Base Kit) that comes with the kit of parts. Just because the longest dimension part in that chassis is 30" does not mean that the maximum length of the robot is 30" or anything less than 38". Using that same c-channel frame, one can construct a robot with a 38" outer dimension using frame parts that are 30" long.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

This is all speculation. The only solid hints are the KOP sizings.

This is interesting though, if you think about it. None of the boxes seem to include the game piece, and from my experience, the veteran KOP is about half to 3/4 full. which means the game piece is either small, or inflatable (or not included with the kit).

That being said, we've had balls in the game for 4 out of the last 5 years. I have a feeling that this game piece is not going to be a traditional round ball. It may be some other ball though. Also, with all the "3" hinting, something is going to be radically different. It's about time too...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

While that may be true, there are downsides of using multiple pieces of c-channel to span a distance. Two are rigidity and mounting space. If i'm not mistaken, AndyMark used to ship 4 pieces of 38" C-channel, and let teams cut it down. Why wouldn't they do the same if there wasn't some sort of change?

EDIT: AndyMark sells C-Channel in 35" lengths. That makes me think that they had to fabricate a part especially for this KOP, a special part.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Two problems I see with the protruding-wheel theory are:

1. I don't think the kitbot will have 8" wheels, meaning the max reasonable long dimension is ~35" (30" + ~2.5" each way from a 6" wheel)
2. Losing or moving the front and rear bars on the kitbot doesn't seem like an intelligent move to make, given that the kitbot is intended to be a plain base to work off of, and not specialized to a specific design.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Another question about the KoP... We've heard a lot about the Kinect being in the game this year... I do not see a mention of it being in the rookie KoP though. Can anyone confirm/deny?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Hey, I may be wrong here. I agree that there are complications with protruding wheels. But, AndyMark does in fact make a general chassis (albeit pricier and more complicated than the "kit bot") using their NanoTube products that have protruding wheels. And those can be built off of to make a specialized chassis.

To me, it just seemed like there was no dissent to the idea that the allowed dimensions of the robot were changing. I wanted to present an argument that given all of the evidence we have, the assumptions being made here may not in fact bear out. ...Or they may bear out and we may be playing with smaller robots. We'll see on January 5.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think AndyMark breaking from the traditional KOP Kitbot is enough change to warrant us talking of it as a hit. I may be completely mistaken though...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Example ('scuse the paint):


I wouldn't trust that on my robot, bent wheels/axles due to impact don't seem like fun.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Quick question, how does the bumper cover the extended wheel, and how do you prevent someone from ramming whatever bumper you have over those wheels into the wheels? seems like more of an issue than anything...

Edit: did't see the last line. But still, the question stands.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

That's what I thought. I don't think the KoP bot is going to that. The idea of the KitBot is something that rookies can easily compete with and I'd hate to imagine what would happen to that design the minute it gets t-boned.

Back to the game hint:
Any other revelations about what the string of numbers means?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Perhaps we will all get a new one in case any were broken/lost.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

You whipper-snappers don't remember the before-bumper days, when we all had steel frames and prayed they'd hold up...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I get the strange feeling that we have gone off topic a bit much, I feel like we were on the right track with the poem riddle thing, but now were just pulling things out of the blue.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397

and

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Let's go people! Figure it out!

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

did you notice one of the staff members are named ROSE :ahh:

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I believe I called that, sir. :D

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

A Rose, Kissed could refer to the song "Kiss from a Rose" by Seal, who is a well known singer in australia. He is also a Judge/coach on the voice australia. In the first line of this song he mentions a tower alone in the sea, which could poke at the idea of a game played on water. The HOLDING WEIGHT aspect may say that the alliances would work together to transport things to and from the tower to gain points within the allotted time.
Im still working on what A DINNER, MISSED might mean...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Did anyone consider factoring the numbers?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Could that 31 be the 31" of the new long dimension? A 31" inch c channel on andymark was mentioned. Just a thought

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I appears that either everyone or no one will be reciving a Kinect this year. There is no variation between Rookie and Veteran kits for the Kinect. Is it resonable to assume that both rookies and veterans alike will be recieving an additional Kinect?

Source: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...eran-variation

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Thats what I thought of too XD

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-037.htm

One of the parts on AndyMark's FIRST Choice is Galvanized Steel Cable!!! This combined with the lyrics to "Never gunna give you UP. Never gunna let you DOWN" may imply some sort of pulley aspect to the game. Plus on the NASA page for Mission 31, the first video is of Yo-yo's.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

If they're giving us another one to put on the robot (Using the first one we had for Hybrid period)

I dont believe this, but it is possible. Saying as how so little people decided to use it last year, maybe they were just like "If you're a rookie and you really want a kinect to practice with still, you'll have to buy it"

I do believe that they will still have it used in a hybrid period of some sort though, but probably not as impractically (IMHO) as this year.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Just for curiosity I rendered a 'bot at 79% of the 2012 size. The dimensions include the wheel widths.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Side View:

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Has anyone tried to find some correlation between the numbers and the kit of parts? Maybe there will be some kind of pattern based on the prices, dimensions or some other number related to the parts.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

If the longest frame member is 30", the chassis would be 32" long with the front and rear cross bars. Keeping the length-width ratio the same, this would make the width 23.58", so the max dimensions are more likely to be 32"x24"x50".

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

This might be a wild tangent but I went on the assumptino that each pair of numbers represented a character. Also the pairs of numbers all appeared in the number pi. I went through pi and starting with three assigned pairs of numbers to a letter, in alphabetical order
31 A
41 B
59 C
26 D
53 E
58 F
97 G
93 H
23 I
84 J
62 K
64 L
33 M
83 N
27 O
95 P
02 Q
88 R
41 S
97 T
16 U
93 V
99 W
37 X
51 Y

There are several repeats but I figured this was a good place to start. If you go through and substitute the numbers for letters, and in the few instances where there are doubles pick the most logical letter you get the result:

A ROSE, KISSED

SINGER GREAT

A DINNER, MISSED

HOLDING WEIGHT

Has anyone else found this?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think someone else posted the wheels from AndyMark, and there was someone mentioning all the threes and relating it to Lunacy. Maybe it's the exact opposite of Lunacy, and instead of a simulated low-gravity environment, it's a simulated high-gravity environment? I doubt that really has anything to do with it, but a high-gravity game would be interesting.

Regarding smaller frames, I'm game (I just wish we hadn't just built a new cart designed for a "regular" robot). I would hope they would go back to those "regular" dimensions later, though. People like to watch larger robots, and sponsors like larger robots.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

While everyone has been discussing who wasn't at the GDC meeting, and how 31 inch robot criteria can change the game... I did some more thinking. So just to recap:

This is the hint:

31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397

Which somebody was able to turn into this:

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Now, from that we have been able to deduce that the first 2 lines refer to a song by Seal, and so while thinking about that, I thought about the different plays on words with seal. I kept going through words like seal-ed, seal-proof, seal-ling. Then using ceiling, I looked back at the riddle, and created such idea:

Similar to 2004, FIRST Frenzy, game pieces will be stationed above the field, although in this game, it is a large platform that is stationary and above the robots on the field, similar to a large table, where most people associate eating dinner with. So, with that, and looking at the riddle, to explain the lyrics of:

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

So in the first line, if you miss a dinner, you are standing some one up, which we can interpret as describing how robots will have to stand up to reach the game pieces. And to confirm that game pieces would be elevated, we look at the last line: holding weight. This "weight" would be the game pieces. The game pieces may actually be weighted for more of a challenge, or they are just calling it weight to be more vague about it. This theory is very plausible, seeing as many of these ideas have been replicated in past years. The only missing component is that we are unsure of how to score, if the game pieces start on the elevated platform, I'm assuming for complexity, the scoring on a lower level, so that we don't end up with a ton of just really tall robots.

I am pretty sure that the Rick Astley picture was a hint, but I could be wrong. There are 2 previous hints that have yet to be defined, because Frank said so himself in the most recent post on the blog. That is why I believe the Rick Astley picture in legit, and I believe that the meaning of that hint is that matches will be 3 minutes long to allow for more complex and developed strategies, why also increasing the need for strategic play due to a lacking number of matches.

As for the 3rd hint: I have absolutely no idea. Although I feel that I can safely shoot down a few theories of what the 3rd clue would pertain to:
-Number of alliances: I am fairly certain they will not add a 3rd alliance. It would make coopertition so much more complicated, and matches would quickly turn from X vs. Y vs. Z to X+Y vs. Z when alliance Z is given a powerhouse team. Not even to mention the fact that the GDC would have to redesign the shape of the field. That would mean that FIRST would have to create new FIRST fields and NASA would have to do the same with their fields, the there are all those teams out there with warehouses where they have a field set up for year around, they would have to now restructure the entire field.
-Water Game: Yes, congratulations, you have successfully found a relation between water and the most ridiculous things on the internet. You should win the Nobel Peace Prize. We can relate anything back to water, and by anything, I literally mean ANYTHING. Surfing around on Chief Delphi has proven that to me. I honestly believe that FIRST is closer to developing a flying game than a water game, based on the CARD demonstration at Championships in 2011.

I'd keep going but I think I have gotten the point across. What do you guys think?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

OK, I have no idea what this means, but I re wrote the set of numbers, once excluding the threes, and once exculding the ones and twos (since the apparently skipped hints one and two). I then put each of those sets of numbers into a decimal to ASCII translator. The set without threes contained a japanese character which google said meant "bullhead," and a chinese character meaning "loach" (both types of fish, water game, right :D ). The set without ones and twos contained a chinese character for "An" followed by a korean character for "cone." Again, not quite sure what this means, it just seemed interesting.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I dont think anyone explained yet how they found:

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

I was able to find this too ( i actually thought I was crazy because it made no sense to me) by using this:

31 = A
41 = B
59 = C
26 = D
53 = E
58 = F
97 = G
93 = H
23 = I
84 = J
62 = K
64 = L
33 = M
83 = N
27 = O
95 = P
02 = Q
88 = R
41 = S
97 = T
16 = U
93 = V
99 = W
37 = X
51 = Y
05 = Z

These are the first 52 digits of pi. I assumed that a pair of numbers represented a character and then went through in order and coupled each pair of numbers with a letter.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think im leaning towards more of Rick Astly being less and less of a hint.

It did just say a picture from the GDC lab, and maybe someone there wanted to be funny and posted a picture of "Never gonna give you up" on the board because it had the lyrics "Never gonna let you down" in it, just like the end game of lifting your teammates off the ground I think will happen this year.

Its very possible that there just happened to be 2 red one blue and one yellow pushpin available for use when whoever posted the photo on the board.

Also, the fact that this rhymes (And with the correct syllable counts) makes me think it is the correct decryption even more:

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Ceiling = seal ing I think that this would be clue worthy

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

All I can say is that you guys are way better at this than I am. For some reason, I tried to convert the number pairs to binary and hexadecimal. :ahh: I need to get better at this :o

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

As stated before:

Frank also commented that:

So...does the 3 not mean that it is the third hint? :yikes:

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

The first two lines of Kiss From A Rose by Seal:
There used to be a graying tower alone on the sea.
You became the light on the dark side of me.

There will be a neutral structure in the center of the field. I would like to guess that the endgame will be like 2004 where only a few robots can get it and there would be intense competition to get it and also deny the other alliance from having it.

From the pushpins, if they are legit: there will be two like structures on the other side, one for each alliance, but nowhere near as important.

My friend is thinking the game could be like 1994's Tower Power with a central tower that can be scored on.

And honestly, I have no idea how I cracked the riddle. I just thought Pi when i saw the strings of numbers, and then I thought pairs of digits would easily encrypt letters. A bit later, with a few substitutions needed, and here we go.

Does the fact that Pi was part of the cipher become a hint in itself?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

We seem to all be making hints out of things that are not. If it something was a hint, it would have been a hint.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

[quote=coalhot;
Let's go people! Figure it out![/QUOTE]

The thing that gets me is the use of crypto in the hint. If you want to go back to the Astly pic, and Rick Roled, Isn't that another way of indicating hiding things? Might the game then involve hiding things?

Anyone for a game of robot hide and seek?

Neal

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

A hint that must be decoded means that the game would involve having to find things? I think thats a little to far deep...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Please cite your source on this.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Now I'm no expert in cryptology or the history of FIRST however these hints have been conning out for a few years now. if we were to go back and reverse engineer all the previous hints a pattern could emerge helping us better understand the thought process of theGDC. in tern making it more simple to decode the current game hint

Oh and by the way new drive train be be in part because the big rumor I heard was Belt drives

AND SHUT-UP ABOUT WATER GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not gonna happen

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I feel like that there's another layer to the hint that's been missed so far:

KISS
- (from CalTran's sig) Keep It Super Safe
- (from I don't remember whom) Keep It Simple, Stupid
Therefore, the smaller robot dimensions make sense because they will be safer and simpler. However, there's probably something else that this can be related to.

Kit of arts:
-Rick Astley, Rose Kue, and Seal are all music artists (or at least stellar musicians)
-The backdrop of the crew picture is a piece of art (starry night)
-"The Starry Night" is a famous poem by Anne Sexton (may or may not be related)
-Rose art museum- history of Carnegie Hall (famous for music)
Carnegie: Carnegie Mellon University, steel plant, philanthropist, etc (missing something here, he has to tie into this somehow)
-Seal- family seal=art form in some cultures
Art will be tied into this somehow.

EDIT: Got rid of repetitive info

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I have a hard time reconciling that the screenshot having been taken at exactly 3:00 is a coincidence. "Three" is a recurring theme this year... I still think it's significant.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

That one's been explained already. The cipher is based on pi, with every 2 digits corresponding to one letter of the alphabet. As it happens, arranging in alphabetical order makes G and T both correspond to 97

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

"Three" is a very common number. It's pretty easy to find coincidental relationships with things so common.

If you play "The Wizard of Oz" and "Dark Side of the Moon" simultaneously, there are an impressive number of coincidences. But they're still coincidences.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think what we should do is post (in one thing) everything we know for sure and
then start trying to make connections

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Good work gyroscopeRAPTOR on the pi thing!

One possible reason for using "pi" as part of the hint, maybe each team gets one of these in this year's KoP.

As far as the "DINNER MISSED", I don't know from Bill's Dec 20, 2012 blog who from the FRC staff was missing. An older list of FRC staff appears in an April 27, 2011 blog but there are multiple different names on the two lists.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Idea: this is game hint number 3, but it doesn't say anywhere that numbers 1 and 2 have been released yet. What it they are something else, say the names of the game manual, maybe a new section, maybe a new product released in the next two weeks?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

running on the pi thing, maybe there is no end game? if you miss dinner, you dont get desert right?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

or pi could be the actual hint itself

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Has anyone found the EXIF data for the Rick Astly photo? It seems that the image was taken inside a building called Mill no. 3 in Manchester NH. I dont know if this means anything but the see science centre is located in this building.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

17 pages and you guys don't have this figured out yet.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think the idea of a pie game scares me more than the idea of a water game.

- Sunny G.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

31 is a very important mathematical and Geometrical number. 31 is used to reference the center of a triangle, pentagon, or decagon. thats all i got right now.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I would trust regular robot-robot action, but not with wheels exposed from the front of the frame by 4" that can get clipped off ;)

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

The creator of "Starry night" which seems to be something that is popping up ocassionaly (and detectives don't believe in coincidences), Van Gogh, often missed dinner, especially on Sundays:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent...gh#cite_ref-30 (footnote 4)

As well, Van Gogh excelled in the very last portion of his career (end game?)

A search for music and Van Gogh pointed me towards Beethoven. His career is often divided into 3 parts.

I'm thinking a game with 3 distinct game modes rather than the two that we usually see.
Possibly an auton
A tele-op where a piece is "never given up"
and then a tele-op where the opposite is done.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think the fact that we figured out the entire decrypted code by page 4 counts for something...

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

That was incredibly well thought out, but i think you completely diverged from the "essence" of the hint. I'm only saying this because I want us all to discover (as close as we can) the meaning of this hint.

You took a picture that was on the background of one of NASA's mission pages (which was found by analyzing the first tiny piece of the long string of numbers), and then found the artist, and then went on into more specific and seemingly random relationships regarding the artist.

EDIT: Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's late at night and in checking this thread I have been let down by the near-complete halt of progress we have made since the 5th page.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Here's what I'm seeing, although I could verywell be compeltely off. I'm basing this off of what's already been said as well as my own thoughts.

"A ROSE, KISSED" may be a reference to the song "Kissed by a Rose" which is by a man names Seal

"SINGER GREAT" could be a more specific clue meant to point you towards the singer of the song (Seal)

"A DINNER, MISSED" could be refering to a picture of the same caption on flikr (It's actually the first result if you google the phrase)
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/81238501@N00/8073635501/

"HOLDING WEIGHT"......well, really not sure here. Could either be a reference to the weighing bucket shown in the picture..... or that whole Rick Astley thing (which would suggest some sort of robot-lifting-other-robots situation). Who knows

Now, all of this would seem to point towards an aquatic theme, but I don't think that is the case.

I think the theme is going to be sustainability/survival/"protection of life" in some manner. I say this for two reasons:

1. cypher points to seals (often under protection) and dead fish

2. earlier on, it was mentioned that there may or may not be reasoning behind releasing the hint on 12/21/12: the day that we were all supposed to die on.
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...me-hint-status
The blog hints that the day is significant, yet may not be for the whole "long count" reason (he says that it could just be a coincidence). If that is the case, then the other reason why that date is significant is because that is the anniversary of the Lockerbie Bombing (google it if you don't already know what it was).

So yeah, that's my spiel.

Holding up teammates to keep them alive

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

The first thing i thought of, a blast from everyone's childhood. "The floor is lava"

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

On the topic of the two other game hints. I was digging around, and I found a reply to a post on the FIRST Hint page that said this:

Other Hints?
Submitted by Frank Merrick on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 16:06.

The '#3' is just a label. You shouldn't assume that there were other hints. But you shouldn't assume there weren't either. In your shoes, I would make no assumptions.

I googled around for other Hints for this years game, And I have found nothing. So the #3 is part of the hint

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Sealed buckets.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

When I search for "a dinner missed" in quotes the first thing that pops up is this photo of fish.

It was taken in Drangsnes, Iceland by an very talented nature photographer named Bo Valentin. I'm not sure if he's a factor, but according to Wikipedia Drangsnes got its name from a tall rock named Kerling of what is said that it is one of three troll women who tried to separate the West Fjords from the rest of Iceland. Interesting...

Stretching a little further "Kerling" is an alternate spelling of "Curling", the sport where a heavy polished stone is slid across the ice towards a target area while team members use brooms to alter the state of the ice in it's path.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

(voice of Stephen Colbert)NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I had to go to rehab to forget regolith! :(

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

"A dinner missed" is too unusual of a phrase for this photo not to mean something.

A picture of dead fish. "Holding weight."

A fish scale.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

PI is mostly useful when dealing with circles.

The robots / alliances build circles, say from different sized pieces? Perhaps pie shaped pieces?

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

Please propose an alternative then.

And my last amount of time used on this subject has given me a game proposition:
3 towers that game pieces are placed on the top of. 3 sections of the game. During each "mode" of the game, your alliance is allowed to score on a certain tower by placing game pieces on top. During the same mode, the opposite alliance must score on a different tower. At any time during the game you may de score from any tower. The game is scored with 3 total points. 1 point for each tower your alliance has more game pieces on than the other alliance.

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

you sir win the game

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

I think the "Dinner Missed" relates to the play "Dinner for One" in which the operative and often repeated line is "the same procedure as every year".

Re: 2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!
 

A nice description of Triple Play 05...