New Team, which lang?
 

I will be joining a rookie team this year, and I was wondering: what is a good choice for a team that will not have a KOP until Jan. 10 and has never competed before?

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

I would go with Java just because of the fact that AP Computer Science is taught in Java. Chances are, if the school has APCS, there will be kids that know Java. Less likely C++.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

This is a conversation that requires the search because this conversation happens nearly every few months on this forum.

- Sunny G.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

I would recommend Labview if no one on your team knows how to program.

If you have people who know how to program with Java then I would go with that. But I believe that Labview would be the easiest to pick up and go with.

Good luck!

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

Sunny G. speaks wisdom. ;) Check out the many language threads on these forums. Weigh the Pro's and Con's.

I always suggest "Go with what you Know". If you have a student or mentor with skills in LabView, Java or C++, then make use of those skills! Time is short.

With no previous skills, a graphical language interface like Labview may be easier to grasp than a syntactical language. Having said that, check out WPI's RobotBuilder videos on YouTube. It will be available with the Java Netbeans and C++ WindRiver/Eclipse IDE's this year. "Pictures-to-Code" is a leap up the learning curve.

Lastly, post and "Search" your questions! There are superb software engineers and programmers on these forums that are waiting to help.

Good Luck!
Eric

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

I agree with David on this.
From what I have seen about programming with the three languages, Java is the best for a beginning language.

LabView makes hard things easy, but easy things hard. You can not declare a variable like "int a" which was frustrating to me.

C++ is a pretty powerful language and I think (citation needed) runs the fastest on the CRIO. However, our team has had some problems deploying C++ code on the robot that will actually run (might of been IP problems that we fixed later).

Java is a pretty easy language to learn and has similar syntax compared with C++. One thing I like about Java running in Netbeans is that you can easily access the Object library files be control clicking on the Object. In addition, it told you how to fix syntax errors and ect. in Netbeans while I do not recall a similar feature in C++ or LabView.

Well, this season, I do not think it should matter. With the new robot builder, I think that it should be easier for rookie teams to program in C++ or Java.

Good luck!

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

For a new team, I would recommend Lab View. It is every bit as capable as the other languages, and much easier to learn. It does take a while to deploy to your robot though. Although it may only take a minute or two, it seems like an eternity when you are rushing to the next match. However, a huge benefit of LabView is the ability to tune PID constants in real-time.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

With the new C++/ Java features, you can tune PID in real-time.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

The NetworkTables communication framework is supported in all three languages. It can provide features similar to LabVIEW's interactive front panels.

I believe LabVIEW is hands down the easiest environment for inexperienced programmers to use. I typically see people having real difficulty with it only when they are already familiar with text-based languages. There's obviously a lot of support for it from National Instruments, the provider of the cRIO. This year, the built-in robot simulator might make it even better.

Java comes in second in my estimation, and I have a strong impression that it's the favorite of the people who maintain the WPIlib code. There's a very nice tool to generate robot code automatically for either Java or C++, and I think that tool is written in Java.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

I know basic C++ and Java and I STILL think LabVIEW is your best choice if you're new to the robotics scene. (This is only my team's 3rd year so we're pretty new too). LabVIEW is visual so not that hard to understand and seems to have a lot more support for it than the other two

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

The language best understood by the mentors.

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

here's a way to decide.

1. previous experience: if anyone has any exp with anything use that to your advantage
2. any coding familiarity: when I started coding on my team I knew some syntax from LUA (GMod) and Arduino coding, so stepping into Java was pretty easy for me. After coding the robot with that I attempted to use LabView to edit the HUD for the classmate and was struggling with it because it was far different from text based code, but simple if you know what your doing. If you were on an FLL team you are probibly already familiar with GUI based coding and it should be fairly easy to extend that into LabView
3. just pick one: if none of the above criteria are within reach than just pick one. The more time you spend trying to pick one the less time you will have to learn, troubleshoot and program your robots program.

Good Luck!

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

Another approach is to browse the product documentation, like in a book store. Flip through example and setup and see if something catches your eye.

Greg McKaskle

Re: New Team, which lang?
 

Past experience is your best option. If you have a brand new programmer with absolutely no experience, I advise Labview. I was one of those people who knew nothing about programming when I started first, and I was the only programmer. I started on Labview and picked it up during the build season.

Any language you chose to go with, my advice is to start by googling for tutorials. They are everywhere. The best advice I can give is to start programming early. Even if you don't have a robot yet, make drive code or basic math equations to familiarize yourself with the program. You don't need a robot to test if you replace motor outputs and control inputs with debugging messages to tell you what is happening. You can run some tests straight on the computer. Don't wait until the last minute to learn a language. Programming a robot will take the full six weeks.