Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Oh boy, here we go again. So, what do you think?!?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Oh my god. oh my god this is freaking awesome!
I'm so excited for climbing robots and FRISBEES

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AWESOME GAME LET'S GOOOOOOO

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Alright now to look into winch systems haha

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Anyone having issues taking the manual decryption code?

Mine won't accept it. :/

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Shades of Round Up.

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I personally think it was a bit soon for another hanging game... But overall, it looks fun.

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My initial thoughts as well.

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sAucersFlyRobotsClimb! works fine for me.

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so shooting these frisbees.....

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So a frisbee shooter and some way to climb up the tier rungs? Got it. Sounds fun.

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Robot size is smaller...

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Some aspects of this remind me of Breakaway (at least the end-game portion)... poring over the manual right now, some pretty specific rules regarding the robot. Definitely gonna be an interesting year.

Also, two shooting games in a row? Guess we're breaking the mold this year.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Anyone have an idea for climbing the rungs? Besides going under then up...:confused:

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Rules G31/32/33 are pretty interesting, might be worth focusing on for alliance selection valuability?

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The pyriamid is never going to give you up, never going to let you down.

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Robots are smaller this year.

38+38+28+28 = 132

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That is a LOT smaller.

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Are the field diagrams up yet?

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Frisbee Launcher.
It's a bit too big for a robot, though.

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Looks remarkably consistent.

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Has anyone been able to find the frisbee product online or at any store? the Part is a Wham-O Frisbee Super Flyer, Item number 53214. I am unable to find it anywhere except for on wham-o.com, and I can't even buy it there. I tried contacting there Customer Service, but it is closed.

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Holy crap. 118 white discs? And its not a typo due to the rest of the section... This is going to get messy...

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Hmm,
The rungs are at 30", 60", 90"
The absolute max robot height is 84"
and
The ground counts as a level, so a robot must lift itself off the ground using the level 1 bar before going for the level 2 bar

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Vision based shooting here we go again!

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So after looking through the manual a few times, I haven't seen anything that would prevent the following strategy:

1. Collect 4 colored disks.
2. climb (sequentially) to the top of your pyramid
3. score disks into pyramid goal
4. retrieve falling disks from beneath goal
5. repeat steps 3&4 till the game ends
6. profit???

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Why are some discs colored (6 blue discs and 6 red discs 90 white disks) can you only score with your own color?

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You can only score in the top pyramid goal with your own colored disks. I am not sure if you can also use them on the other goals.

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looks like this is gonna be an interesting year
Taylor from 2164 the corps

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From GLOSSARY

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Yes, you can use them as normal white disks, but then you miss out on the ALLIANCE PYRAMID GOAL points.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Awesome game :))
Anyone of you can give me idea , how to climb??
(how to build the robot to climb?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

The pyramid goal has a floor to it, and therefore doesn't drop the disks out, also, the rule says the DISCs must be in the GOAL at the end of the MATCH to score.

However, doing so DOES turn your 30pt climb into a 50pt climb, provided you can put the DISCs in the PYRAMID GOAL with 100% accuracy.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

And we had hoped for an easy game this year.. Oh and btw, the angle on the goals is 68 degrees, it must be a sign! Thanks FIRST gods!

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I suspect we might see a return of 2056-in-2010-esque climbing devices.

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So we understand that you must climb the tower sequentially and you cannot touch more than two levels at once, but would that mean it is possible to remain on level 0, touch level 1 with an apparatus, then remove it and touch level two while your robot is stil on the ground and do the same for level three before lifting off of level zero? We are unclear as to whether this counts as sequentially or not.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

No. Once you remove your apparatus from level 1, you are once again touching only level 0, and so to touch level 2 would break sequential-ness. You're trying to lawyer the rule. The intent is clear, climb the tower, don't grab onto the top and pull yourself up.

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Is there any co-op points this year????

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No.

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I do not believe so..

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Just realized something else too. For all the hype about Kinect playing a bigger role in 2013, I don't even see anything about the Kinect at all.

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This is false actually, once the disc is scored it stays in the target, there is a layer of plexiglass that prevents it from falling through.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Also, as a 2012 Field Resetter... Field Reset for this game will suck. Hard. At least frisbees don't roll like basketballs will. 130 Frisbees to sort into 6 stacks of 15, 6 stacks of 2, plus a bunch more placed on the field. Ick.

Kind of surprises me a bit, since Field Reset is a big component of the time between matches, which they've been trying to minimize.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

so for hanging, could we just ride up the pipe like how some teams did in Breakaway?

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Depends on how you do it. You can't attach to level 3 and then ride up (cause it violates both hight limit rules and pyramid level rules.) You have to start by getting onto level 1 and being off the ground, then attaching to level 2 and so on.

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good luck rookies....

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Nah just latch onto the bottom and then ride up. would that count as sequential climbing?

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As a 2013 field supervisor, I'm bringing a hard hat.

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AIR DEFENCE IS HERE!!

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It would, except it will be extremely difficult to slide up the bar considering this photo as taken by team 3467:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

The bars that enforce the "levels" of the pyramid are on the outside of the legs.

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Well it does say in the rules that you can use a Microsoft Kinect as a controller. It just uses it as an example, but I don't really think it is necessary to drive.

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The colored discs certainly remind me of Empty Cells in Lunacy.

I also feel that these pyramids are going to create a great visibility hazard similar to that experienced in Rack N Roll.

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My thoughts exactly

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It won't be a problem if you don't make it a problem

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I'm curious what design you've dreamed up. The most widely successful climberbot from 2010 that I can remember is 2056's wheeled climber that regularly carried them to the top of the TOWERs. It couldn't work on 2013's PYRAMIDs as is because of the way the rungs cross the corner supports.

It might be possible to build some kind of related 2-stage device where you climb the first 30", then regrab above the bar, and continue, but to simply latch on and climb as in 2010 seems impossible.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Robotic Frisbee Launcher Prototype

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2p...yer_detailpage

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good one

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Team Queing is going to be a nightmare. We have to wait for teams to get safely removed from the towers after each match. It's gonna take forever and it still will be the que teams fault.

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so, my team was wondering, how deep are all 3 goals? it does not say in the packet.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Welcome to Chief Delphi!

The dimensions you want can be found here. For example, the High Goal dimensions are shown on sheet 69. Looks like it is about 22 inches deep.

Correction, per the Side, High Goal Basket drawing GE-13077 on sheet 135 of the set linked above, the depth is about 20 inches.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Look in the field drawings: it should give you all the dimensions you want.

Also, I find it kind of ironic how they called it "Ultimate" Ascent and it's actually more like disc golf than ultimate..

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

thank you very much, another thing, each alliance starts with 45 white discs, and there are two spots for each alliance to feed into the field from. do you completely decide which feeder station you want the discs to start at? as in, can you have all 45 at the station which also has the 1 point goal?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Sigh, did not think I would be digging through my senior design project papers tonight (As an aside this is quite humbling, I recommend to anyone who has already graduated college!)


From what I remember, our frisbee launcher was consistent to within +- 3 inches at 30 feet distance between 3 and 10 feet off the ground (when shot from around 3 feet). We used an 11 inch wheel connected to a cim motor that was spinning at 1000 rpm, and we'd put in a new frisbee in each time it was back up at 1000, which was within 2-3 seconds. The keys were putting a groove into the spinning wheel to grab the frisbee, covering the wheel with rubber foam, and then having a rigid outside wall with a straight path at the end, so that the frisbee would go straight when it left the launcher.

I'll now have to dig through our derivation of equations, but from what I remember it's not physically difficult to build a good launcher, the difficult parts are 1.) getting frisbees into the launcher, 2.) getting the software to aim it.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

^Excellent post, Joe! Thank you!

Some follow up questions -- (1) what material did you use for the wheel? (2) how thick was it? (3) would you foresee any problems using a smaller wheel diameter and higher RPM, so that the speed at the contact point is the same?

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Can Human Players score COLORED disc during the last 30 seconds into the tower for 5 points? I'm not sure if this was already asked

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I think Frisbee Frolic would have been a better name. :p

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Nah, field reset will still be trying to find the 117th and 118th discs - it'll be their fault.

Also refs will delay things as we carefully determine the exact heights of the lowest part of each robot.

The new radios had better sync up pretty fast, or we've no hope of hitting 7 minute game cycles.

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I hadn't even considered the complications of resetting the field with this year's game. Lol sounds like a mess!

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How is field reset going to get the disks down out of the tower goals (or even the high goals)? Is there some trick to it I'm not seeing?

Where can i get the RobotBuilder Program?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

I would imagine that there is probably some release that kinda just drops them from underneath or something to that effect. If they are aiming for 7 minute turnarounds, there is no way that field reset is going to be climbing up there each match. That's 10' off the ground!

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Remember, the 1 pt goal next to the 3-feeder wall is your opponent's. Be careful when looking at colors. From the driver's point of view, you get fed neat you, and your tower and goals are on the far end of the field. Also remember that your driver needs to look through two pyramids to see the goals on the far end.

example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3cjwgx1c0

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

While there are rules about team members climbing on the PYRAMID, I don't recall seeing anything about field personnel not being allowed to ascend the PYRAMID...

I imagine they have an easy way to retrieve the discs that does not involve having to leave the ground. At least via the PYRAMID.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

It's provided as part of your programming language's update package. For C++, you'll find it in C:\Wind River\WPILib after running the WPILib update

Looking at the kickoff pictures, it looks like the bottom of the goal can be pushed upward such that all the discs fall out of the main opening of the goal

What about with java?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

I highly doubt that there will be climbing by field personnel. I believe OSHA regulations require fall protection for personnel at or above 6 feet elevation. http://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtrai.../subpartm.html

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So I guess that using a grappling hook like in the animation is out of the question because if it used the tower for support while attached to the top rung it would give it a chance to be in more than two sections at the same time? Right?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

From my understanding, I believe that is considered climbing more then 2 levels at a time. you can't touch a bar above the first rung from the ground, etc. since you would be in 3 zones at once.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Possibly. As always, verify your design ideas with the rules of the game and the rules of the robot.

You could use a grappling hook if connecting to the first level with the hook before detaching and connecting to the next one.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

I believe contacting the pyramid means actual physical contact, so passing into the plane is fine as long as you dont touch the floor, 30", and 60" bars all at once, OR touch the 30", 60", and 90" bars all at once.

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There is nothing prohibiting your robot from being in more than two zones at the same time, just touching the pyramid in more than two zones. The robot to which you are referring does not make a legal climb because it does not touch the bars in sequential order.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

So will some team build a bot that can climb to the point of being solely supported by the disk on top of the goal (either by hanging from it or sitting on top of it.) Why would you do this? "Because its there."

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

I see your challenge and raise you! Quite literally, I raise your robot above mine! ;)

I'm kidding, of course...

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

I'm officially loving this game!
Here are my predictions.

Driving and Aiming: I think we are going to see a lot of fast west coast drives trains. There isn't very much emphasis on being able to strafe this year (as compared to games like Logomotion). I also think we are going to see a lot of rotating turrets.

Scoring Frisbees: It's all about accuracy. The frisbees are going to be difficult to pick up off the ground, and I don't think there will be many just rolling around. Basically, if you get possession of a frisbee, you had better score it in A goal.

The End Game: Climbing is a must. Most, if not all, of the frisbees will be scored by this point in the game, and Climbing will be a very effective way of getting ten or twenty points. That being said, I don't think we are going to see very many teams scoring thirty points by climbing.
As for the colored disks, I think a few teams will score them as they are climbing the ladder (just lob them in, don't worry about spin). I also expect a few Human Players to be a part of a local Ultimate Frisbee Team, and score as much as some robots on their own.

All in all, I think this is going to be a very high scoring, high speed game.

Good Luck!

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

If you take the disc out of the goal, it no longer counts. I believe the pyramid goals have baskets that catch the discs.

3.1.5.1 DISC Points

Points are awarded for DISCS SCORED in the GOALS per Table 3-2.

A DISC is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if any part of the DISC has crossed through the opening of the GOAL, is in the GOAL at the end of the MATCH, and is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE. GOAL openings are outlined in yellow in Figure 3-2 and Figure 3-3.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Looking that the angle at which you're throwing and the pyramids directly in the way, feels like it'll take "mad G skillz" to score frisbee shots as human player.

Agree on the fast paced game, very aggressive too. Not sure how many frisbees will actually be shot. Slow drop in system might mean either starving game or not a chaotic amount of frisbees until all hell breaks loose @ 30 seconds

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Find your "sunspotfrcsdk" folder (which is in your user folder). Then, tools/RobotBuilderr614.jar

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Consider what happens if you accidentally hit an opponent's climbing robot...

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Not sure if anyone would find this useful, but I made a cleaner version of the field picture to use for showing strategies and whatnot. Useful for the first week and competition. http://i.imgur.com/kC2md.png

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Alright, better start practicing my hammer throws... oh wait, I'm on the college club, not in high school.


I'm not going to be the only one saying this, but there will be a team out there that will have done enough testing and enough feedback control to be able to succesfully get a frisbee on top of the pyramid. It's not only entirely possible, but can be down to extrapolating a few hundred data points. Also, my team wants to try this out. ;)

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I'm not saying that every team will have a frisbee thrower extraordinaire, but I do expect a few teams to have one.
Also, you are throwing inside, with no wind. True, the height isn't Ideal, but if you pick your human player now, and they practice, I suspect that they could make at least a third of the shots they take.

I know! All I want is to throw the Frisbee for my team!
Wait, do the human players have to be a student, or can they be a mentor like the coach?

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Students only.

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The grapple-bot climb in the animation is completely legal and valid. Watch the animation carefully. It never contacts more than two zones at any time, and the ones it does touch are contacted in sequential order.

-dave


.

Re: Official Ultimate Ascent Thread!
 

Define Student. I am a college Freshman, but I am still 18. In fact, one of our students on the team is older than me (don't ask me how the dates worked out, I don't know).

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FEEDER: a pre-college TEAM member that feeds DISCS to ROBOTS.

Source: definitions section of the rules.

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Would this grappling design not go against the height restrictions. Even when touching the pyramid (assuming you are shooting the grapple over the pyramid), the grapple would be shot over 120" high, much more than the 84" max.

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Then no, since it's height is higher than 84''.

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I think a lot of teams are going "Oh yeah, just sequentially climb to the top... easy!"

Not quite I believe :D

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The blue grapplebot we watch going up only gets to the second crossbar, not the top, so the 84" rule shouldn't be an issue. Now that Dave has kindly pointed it out, I noticed it sort of levering its chassis up on the first crossbar and hop-lifting its wheels just before it hooks up on 2.