Re: Climbing Rules
 

Although this would be helpful when it comes to simplifying designs, it seems as if the intent, based upon Figure 3-4 of the manual, is that any part of the pyramid located above the horizontal bars making up the corners is to be designated as the next level. If you want to grab onto the corners for climbing, you're going to need to be careful to avoid the vertical pole. That's part of the design challenge.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

There's a lot of word substitution in this thread. If you guys would read the rules, and stop substituting translations in place of the literal words, the rules are quite clear.

• The rules don't invalidate a climb if a robot isn't supported by a level on the way up (i.e. if a 'robot' flew to the top while sequentially touching the horizontal rungs on the way, it'd be a valid climb)
• The gusset plate is a perfectly valid thing to touch on the way up
• The 0.25" above the gusset plate on the angled bar is a perfectly valid place to touch on the way up (good luck proving to the refs that your bot ONLY went that high)
• The angled bar above the horizontal rungs are the next zone up, no matter how the rules are interpretted.
• -Literal- The pyramid is a steel structure. Climbing is defined as robot contact with the pyramid. Zones are defined by planar dimensions.
  -Derived- Steel isn't made of air. Zones are not made up of air.
  -Conclusion- A robot doesn't contact a zone.

The laws of physics pretty much derive everything else we need to know. Just like inserting one's own wishes into the laws of physics leads to epic fail, replacing rule wordings leads to unhappy FRC teams.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

Actually, CLIMBING is considered "contact[ing] the PYRAMID and/or the floor (Level 0)" ...which makes me wonder what led you to believe that a robot flying up needs to touch the horizontal rungs or anything else on the pyramid, provided it takes off from the floor*? In fact, even if the floor didn't count, why would you need to touch it beyond Level 1?

*Not doing so would be a violation of G05-C anyway.

EDIT: This actually does have relevance to a viable CLIMBING strategy (not just flying).

Re: Climbing Rules
 

The Q&A has clarified that sequential contact of each zone is necessary for a climb to be valid.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

The laws of physics, 5 seconds after the end of the match. Oh, and that pesky line that's right underneath your quoted line in the rules, about sequential contact.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

1. That's why I edited it to clarify I wasn't talking about flying. (Suspension, for example, though I guess legally* floating could work)
2. Yes, and I have contacted the floor, which means I am considered to have climbed, no?

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID and/or the floor (Level 0) in

A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

@pfreivald: ah, would you mind quoting this? I can't identify find which you're referring to: quick Q&A link.

I only see 3 answered so far, and the only climbing contact one (Q6) is "Can the robot go from the floor to level 2 while climbing the pyramid or does it have to climb to level 1 first and then level 2?", which is not on point and just restates the rule above.



*Legally by the laws of FIRST of course, the laws of physics are much more picky on that subject. But suspension, nonetheless.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

The answer to Q6 tells us that one must contact the PYRAMID and/or the floor in sequential order, and that skipping a level would not meet the requirement. 0, 3 is not sequential order.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

but could you say perhaps have a robot, on the floor, touch the first rung (level 1) then reach to level level 2 (second rung) and pull itself up?

That is, go from 0, to 1, to 2, but, let go of 1 before letting go of 0, as to only be in contact with 2 zones at a time?

it seems to me this satisfies, sequential order, and only touching two at a time

the rules do not demand using zone 1 to propel youreself to zone 2. you could do it from 0, as long as you contact zone 1, and let go of it before contacting zone 2.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

by my interpretation of the rules JesseK is right.

A robot could fly up to the 3rd zone, as long as it kisses each level...

Re: Climbing Rules
 

I don't think that this interpretation would be true. If you contact level 0 and 1, then let go of level 1, your climb has been reset. You are now starting your sequence over, and lifting by contacting zone 2 from the floor is, obviously, out of sequence and not a valid climb. . To support this statement I leave you an excerpt form section 3.1.5.2 of the game manual.
emphasis mine.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

I see you poit, I guess the clarification needed is if that means "touched non-adjacent Levels" only

That is, if the climb restarts even if the clear intent is in making that all one climb.

essentially, I think only an Official FIRST clarification can solve this...

Both answers seem equally likely to be correct to me

Re: Climbing Rules
 

In this scenario, I would have no intention of contacting Level 3. I would receive 30 hanging points because "The Level to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point of the ROBOT (in relation to the FIELD)", which has nothing to do with contact but rather with position in space. As far as I can tell, there is no rule that says you must be in contact with the pyramid at the time this position is measured in order to receive points.

I realize this is not a common scenario, but we do have a potential climbing apparatus that makes suspension largely trivial, so I'm curious. I'm not claiming it'll happen often, but there were a few suspensions in 2010.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

Interesting point Siri. Though I think that the coordination and resources spent in Robot A supporting Robot B above 30" would have been better spent by Robot A creating a solo 20-pt climber and picking a different Robot B which could do a 10-pt solo climb. With that said...

Essentially, since level 0 (the floor) is considered part of the climb now, nothing says a robot can't flop down a 1/16" thick ABS sheet (or whatever your favorite flavor of material is), have another robot drive onto it, and get 10 climb points anywhere on the field. As far as I can tell (solely from 3.1.5.2), it still fits the definition of a climb in the current form without any "interpretation". That's a creative perspective that is perfectly within the clear definition of the current rules... totally overlooked by many (like me) I bet. It's a perfectly legitimate way to 'climb' for a team who has next to no budget and is already close to the weight limit before adding a climbing device in.

I suspect that this isn't the intent and will get updated out of strategy playbooks, but who knows.

Re: Climbing Rules
 

No, you have to satisfy both requirements -- touch only two, and touch only sequentially. If you let go of 1 before letting go of zero, you're now touching the set [0,2], which is non-sequential.

Ah, I understand now. If you're referring to robots picking up other robots from the ground and then lifting them above certain zones, I can only answer with this:

I don't care. It's not going to happen with sufficient frequency* to matter the slightest bit to my team.



*I'd be shocked if it happens at all...

Re: Climbing Rules
 

I'm mostly asking for some of my kids who are intrigued (encouraging creativity and all). Even if we do implement the parts to facilitate this--which we'd only do if it were as trivial as is ever possible in FIRST, but this is possible (preferably if our collaboration pulled through on the suspendee side)--I wouldn't expect us to execute more than a handful of times. You know, like the same number of times crazy triple balance stackers needed to win a blue banner. ;) Given the number of people that wrote that off last year and similar work years prior, better to know now than at alliance selection.