Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

Just as MetalJacket said, and as in the video, that is possible. Team RUSH spent time discussing this, and it appears legal. If you skip Zone 1 in doing so, though, is something we could not determine it's legality.

Actually, that seems what FIRST is encouraging, especially with including the belay system. There are four basic ways to climb the pyramid. The first is by climbing the pyramid from the inside, using the horizontal rods. The second is by climbing the vertical rods from the inside. The third is by climbing the horizontal rods on the outside, and the fourth is by climbing the vertical rod from the outside. The fourth system seems easiest at first, until you realize that you still have to figure out how to bypass the cross beams in the 1st and 2nd Zones. On the inside, you have four different surfaces you can cling to, though really that's more like two due to regulations on extensions. Nonetheless, it looks like FIRST is trying to make it easy to climb on the inside, though then you must have a very short bot if you want to get 30 pts, which then poses many engineering challenges.

Good Luck!

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

The only problem with climbing from the inside is that there is only enough room on the inside for one bot to get to the top.

One benefit from not staying at the level (and scoring) is if the robot falls. Let's say the bot clears level 3 (abiding by the climbing rules), and the hook breaks, and the bot falls. Technically, it has climbed and earned the level 3 points (no requirement to remain at level 3 at the end of the game). It has also not violated Rule g4 since the removal from the Pyramid is unpowered

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

That is incorrect because of the game animation and also...

3.2.4 Final scores will be assess five seconds after the ARENA timer displays zero or when all elements come to rest, whichever event happens first.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

Bad news if the robot is damaged by the fall.

If you've designed the robot to withstand the fall (?) then this strategy might be a violation of G13, since you've left the hook behind.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

I would argue two things on this.

First, the game animation is NOT the rules. Mr. Dave Lavery, who makes the animations, has said as much himself. (He also has been known to say that the game animation complies with all the rules as much as possible, at the time it is made, but the rules may change without time to make a change in the animation.)

Second, the final score is the score with everything scored. If the score is based on the highest level attained at any point in the game, then it is entirely possible for a robot to attain a Level 3 CLIMB, go back down the pyramid, score some more, and still have the score count. By arguing solely based on that rule's 2012 (or earlier) equivalent, using your interpretation, I can make a pretty decent case that a VERY large number of matches in the past should have ended at 0-0 or other similar ties because there was no game object traveling into the goals at the end of the match; perhaps most blatantly in 2008.

As far as the original question, I think that the intent was made clear in the animation, but not in the rulebook. In my opinion, the spirit of the rule is that climbing down will not score the points; however, the letter of the rule does not reflect that at this time. Based on past experience of the GDC's methods, I would expect this to be one of the items addressed in the first update to the rules, without a need for Q&A.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

Our current interpretation is that they can climb down and get the climb points. We think the video is showing the robot being helped up and the point is that once they are helped up, they have to stay there on their own. So you can't drive up a ramp robot, hit the pyramid as you fall off and get 10 points. But this interpretation is by no means unanimous.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

I'm with you Eric, I think the intent in the animation is clear but the rules to me seem to be clear in the opposite direction. Again, 3.1.5.2:

It isn't the existing in those spaces, it is the contacting of those spaces.

That said, I wouldn't be (and won't be) planning my strategy on that and I expect it will be fixed in the first team update (maybe Tuesday?).

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

The rules definitely don't have anything about having to maintain your position to get the bonus. The video definitely does imply that. I can see the GDC going either way on this, really. My main question is why you'd want to design a robot that can come down anyways. I can't see much advantage to it aside from scoring the 10 points for level 1 quickly then driving off and playing the game. For any of the other levels, it seems like it'd be more complicated than its worth to design a mechanism that can lift and lower itself. All you're getting yourself is the time wasted coming back down.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

So to be sure the robot is allowed to climb up and down again on miltiple occasions but only the first climb counts also you need to hook to first bar on the pyramid then hook the second bar than the third? This year is confsing

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

If you "hook" the first bar are you not in zone 0,1 and 2? Not a legal climb. You would have to attach below the first bar and lift off of zone 0 and then engage in zone 2 and continue the climb. Seams they really do mean climb. This is hard.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

I think the hardest part of the climbing is that you can't touch any part of level two while still touching the floor. It makes things very, very interesting.

As to why you might want to climb up and then back down, I can think of at least one good reason even if you intend to re-climb back up at the very end of the game!

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

If you hook the first bar, you are contacting the pyramid only in zone 1. As long as you don't touch any part of the pyramid's leg above zone 1 before you pull off the floor, you're not in three zones at the same time.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

I see the word "contact" being the key. The mechanism would protrude into the 2nd zone but not be in contact with the pyramid in zone 2. Teams need to watch all q and a and team updates on anything to do with the pyramid.
A slight change to any wording could have great impact on climbing strategies.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

It's early, so I suppose I should allow for a range of rule interpretation possibilities. But... you're nuts if you think the week 2 rules are going to allow you to do 20 chin-ups to get 200 points. If anybody designs their entire strategy around that perceived loophole, I will not feel sorry for them when the GDC committee predictably issues an update invalidating that strategy.

Re: Climbing Up and back again
 

The rules are were ever you climb to, you have to stay there and last there 5sec, After the game has ended and you will be given point to every robot that can climb it and last there