Originally Posted by jwfoss (Post 1211463)

I would like to pose a question: Ultimate Strategy for What?

- Ultimate Strategy to Qualify #1
- Ultimate Strategy to Get Picked
- Ultimate Strategy to Win a Regional
- Ultimate Strategy to Win Championships
- Ultimate Strategy within your team's abilities

I would strongly argue that these goals are not all the same.

Originally Posted by jwfoss (Post 1211463)

I would like to pose a question: Ultimate Strategy for What?

- Ultimate Strategy to Qualify #1
- Ultimate Strategy to Get Picked
- Ultimate Strategy to Win a Regional
- Ultimate Strategy to Win Championships
- Ultimate Strategy within your team's abilities

I would strongly argue that these goals are not all the same.

Originally Posted by jwfoss (Post 1211463)

I would like to pose a question: Ultimate Strategy for What?

- Ultimate Strategy to Qualify #1
- Ultimate Strategy to Get Picked
- Ultimate Strategy to Win a Regional
- Ultimate Strategy to Win Championships
- Ultimate Strategy within your team's abilities

I would strongly argue that these goals are not all the same.

Originally Posted by Sean Raia (Post 1208198)

This.

Also, your teams lifting mechanism in 2010 was very interesting... it was brought up a couple of times at our meeting today.

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1211268)

However, an alliance is more likely to have 3 solid climbers than 3 good shooters. 3 climbers will score 120 points before any baskets. If a bot can climb to 20 points, they can get 30 points, so the real option is 10 points for climbing. So an all shooting alliance would have to score 90 points and hold the other alliance scoreless.

Originally Posted by AllieS4246 (Post 1211695)

Please explain the logic behind 120 points in just climbing. The Max is 30 for each team, and an alliance has 3 teams.:confused: 90 points....?

Originally Posted by mwmac (Post 1211704)

Perhaps assuming that 6 colored disks are scored by the climbing alliance?

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1211244)

Given the parameters and observations, I expect the following scoring breakdown in the Einstein round:

...

- Total: 216-235 points

Originally Posted by Donut (Post 1211975)

This would be some of the most epic Einstein matches ever if we saw scores like this. I can only hope it happens.

I think that the ability of teams to build successful 30 point climbers is being a bit overestimated. Given how some previous end games have gone (and I think most previous end games are easier than this one) there will be Regional events where maybe one team at the entire competition can successfully climb for 30, and it may not be consistent. I could see it at IRI but I think it will take the stars aligning for a triple 30 point climb alliance to form even at the World Championships. I just don't see a good 30 point climber being left for a 2nd pick anywhere.

I still really like the climbing and dumping bot idea, and could see a robot like that seeding #1 at a regional if it is built to execute consistently. 30 climb points, 20 dump points, 6 autonomous points, and 12-20 low goal points a match depending on how it loads would give it close to 70 points a match. That's pretty much unbeatable in most qualifications barring an unlucky pairing against 1114 and 67 at once. An 18 point autonomous shooter with a 10 point hang still needs to hit 4 volleys of 4 disks with near 100% accuracy to stay even with super dump bot.

Originally Posted by sharrington9614 (Post 1211989)

So far 1757 is going with a shooter as well as a grappling hook gun and a winch to hoist the robot to the second tier, thoughts?

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1211998)

12-20 low points is really pushing it...that's three to FIVE trips, not including your color run, across the field, not including ample time to climb up the pyramid and defense

Originally Posted by Donut (Post 1212092)

if you can't keep super dump bot essentially pinned the entire match then it has 56 points that are not defend-able (6 points autonomous, 30 point climb, 20 point dump on top of pyramid), while the accurate high shooter has only 28 points that are not defend-able (18 points autonomous, 10 point climb).

Originally Posted by ChurgoII (Post 1212481)

However, you don't take into account the points they score DURING the teleop. Not to mention, I can garuntee there will be teams who figure out how to shoot accuratly AND get the 30pts for climbing. One of those bots could easily trump a dumb bot.

The dumb bot may be easier to build, but the work for an all-around is worth it.

Originally Posted by Donut (Post 1212531)

You made me realize an important effect of the rules I might have missed though, and maybe other teams did too. Is it illegal to defend against a shooter (make contact) while it is in contact with the pyramid but is clearly not attempting to climb? I will have to check the manual more closely to see. If so shooting bots could use the pyramid like the key was used last year.

Originally Posted by SheepGuy (Post 1212814)

It seems that everyone believes the max you can score from the tower is 50. But I think if you make a robot that sort of has a glove for a feeder could possibly score some more 5 point frisbee's. If I am not mistaken you can throw the frisbee's at the end of the match. So, why couldn't the human player (with much practice) toss the frisbee at the glove and let the robot dump the frisbee in the tower goal. <- This is being already suspended.
(I am not sure if this is legal as I haven't throughly looked at the rules.)

Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1212675)

G30
Regardless of who initiates the contact, a ROBOT may not contact an opponent ROBOT

contacting its PYRAMID or
touching the carpet in its LOADING ZONE.


Violation: FOUL. If purposeful or consequential, TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent's CLIMB is affected, each affected opponent ROBOT will be awarded points for a successful Level 3 CLIMB.

Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1212853)

Did teams really not know about G30? It is a key rule to this game.

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1212860)

I know since that's integral to my proposed strategy, but 1:48 AM me is kinda an idiot.

Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1212853)

Did teams really not know about G30? It is a key rule to this game.

Originally Posted by mbarina (Post 1228216)

Can robots start hanging on the pyramid before the last 30 seconds

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1211244)

Here's an assessment of this year's game's scoring:

Parameters:
- There are 72 potential points in autonomous.
- With 45 discs, the maximum points from fed discs is 135 points.
- Assuming that the colored discs are used at the end of the game, and most likely dumped directly in the goal after climbing the pyramid, an alliance can score 120 points on the pyramid. A single team can score 50 points by climbing and placing 4 discs. This procedure might even be easily automated.

Observations about likely outcomes:
- A single robot can probably score about 36-45 points in autonomous in cooperation with another robot feeding it. But most robots will score only 12 at best.
- We can expect roughly similar (or worse) teleop accuracy as last year's game. The best teams were scoring no more than 60-70 points in teleop, and most were less than 40.
- Unknown points can be scored with discs "owned" by the opposing alliance, but most likely, these will not be additive to the maximum available points.
- The floor will be littered with discs late in the game. This may affect strategies and tactics for the endgame.
- The best alliances will score 120 points in their endgame.

Given the parameters and observations, I expect the following scoring breakdown in the Einstein round:

- Autonomous: 36-45 points:
- Teleop: 60-70 points
- Pyramid: 120 points
- Total: 216-235 points

Note that the pyramid strategy has a high probability of reaching a full score in every match (unlike balancing 3 robots) once the climbing and placing tasks are mastered. On the other hand, the teleop scores will be highly variable and therefore riskier.