Building the Element
 

How are people building the elements this year?

these are the 2 main things (1 can be broken up) that need to be built.

The goals meaning
at least 1 of the 2pointers
at least 1 of the 1pointers (maybe)
and just 1 3 pointer

the pyramid meaning
1 pyramid with goal ontop.

The problem with everything, is that they are extremely tall (taller than Rebound rumble hoops i think.) and the pyramid also needs to hold a robot (or a few)

How is your team doing it? and where are you keeping it all?

Re: Building the Element
 

A word of warning/caution regarding the team version of the pyramid... The Philly kickoff had the team versions of the elements and the pyramid did not seem very sturdy at all. I'm not sure of the exact reason since I didn't look too closely, but the joints were wooden and the base looked like it wasn't perfectly square.

Re: Building the Element
 

We weren't allowed to touch the pyramid at the Pewaukee kickoff at all.

Re: Building the Element
 

FIRST released the Team Drawings that show simpler ways to build the field elements. Like Deetman said, though, I'm not sure how well the pyramid will hold up. The design calls for the brackets on the corners to be 3/4" plywood and U-Bolts.

I'm really unsure as to where to store these things once we build them. The goals and feeder shouldn't be difficult to make and store, but finding somewhere to keep a pyramid, or designing a collapsible one, might be challenging.

Re: Building the Element
 

I feel like the goals can be fairly easily simulated by some cardboard boxes placed at different heights. You could tape up the boxes wherever you practice?

As far as the pyramid is concerned, I have no earthly idea. I suppose we're going to try to build 1/2 or something and drag it in and out of cold storage.

- Sunny G.

Re: Building the Element
 

We're thinking of just making a half pyramid and sticking it next to a wall. Unfortunately, I don't think FIRST was very nice this year. The thing is enormous...how are most teams supposed to fit this in their workshops and still have room to build the darn robot? Also, the dimensions for some of the components are terrible...24.25" pipe? 48.54" pipe? You kidding me? Just make it in integer feet segments. Those are much easier to buy. Now everyone has to go out and get pipe cutters and waste nearly foot long segments.

/rant

Re: Building the Element
 

If you have a sponsor that can do welding (or if you can do welding) couldn't you just send them the technical drawings of the pyramid and ask them to make it?

Re: Building the Element
 

We (The RoboBees, FRC 836) plans on building the actual field pyramid. We may make modifications to the top scoring area (wood vs. polycarbonate), however.

If any teams are in the DC metro area do not have access to the field elements and would like to test on it or use it for practice, please get in contact with me via PM or send an email to Team836@RoboBees.org. We plan on having it complete this week thanks to help from 4514 Terminatrix.

Re: Building the Element
 

Are any KC Area teams building the pyramid?? We have NO space for this, but we are willing to chip in some money to help with the cost.

Re: Building the Element
 

i was involved assembling the the low-cost pyramid (we called it the lunar lander), and boy was it scary. Teams should not waste money on u-bolts and and 3/4"plywood.

Re: Building the Element
 

I cannot give a definitive answer at the moment, but the senior design committee of BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics are looking into creating a full sized, metal, competition-spec'd pyramid. If all goes to plan then we will simply put it in the atrium of the district facility we utilize and will only need move it a few feet to practice. I can bring it up with the Mentors on whether we can have open practices on it some late Saturdays in competition, or appointment times on nights.

Re: Building the Element
 

Good to know, thanks.

Re: Building the Element
 

We built the team pyramid for the Rochester, MN kick off with a few modifications from the plan..

We used EMT instead of black iron pipe. We made the joint plates a bit bigger and use conduit clamps instead of U-Bolts (much cheaper than U-bolts and we also got the EMT and clamps donated by our electrical supply house sponsor.

We also found that if we removed the top goal, and six of the horizontal rungs (on opposing sides) what is left are two A frames -- these fit through a standard commercial doorway (not sure of the door way dimensions but it was the school cafeteria doors. Now the big pieces are stored in the schools maintenance area. Not sure when we'll be putting it back together.. We'll probably build a mock pyramid with just essential elements that we want to use for climbing.

Re: Building the Element
 

How does it "feel"?

Re: Building the Element
 

I plan to help build the pyramid so I did a little reading today. I noticed the team drawing design and the competition design have minor differences in specifications. The team drawing calls for 1 1/4" pipe (1.66 o.d.) with a 60 degree pyramid angle while the competition design calls for 1 1/2" tubing (1.5" o.d. plus powder coating) with a 68 degree pyramid angle. So, which design will we build!!!

Re: Building the Element
 

I have not built a pyramid yet but building the field elements the past many years leads me to one idea. Just for in school testing, not pre-contest event.

Making just one side not four.

Determine the width of the top (90 inch high) bar. Say it is 24 inches for example ( I have not done it yet). Make all 3 pipes, 30, 60 & 90 just the 24 inches wide. I would build it with 2 x 4s or 2 x 6s and the metal pipe. So the wood acts like stair stringers. Hole saw cuts a circle in the wood to slide the pipe through. Fastener to keep the pipe from spinning.

On a future game note, unless your robot can adjust left and right on the way up, you better start "perfectly" centered on the 30 inch tall pipe.

IF I CAD one up in SolidWorks I could share the drawings but it is not our top priority this week.

Good Luck!

Troy
St. Paul Minn. 2450

Re: Building the Element
 

Our EMT based pyramid was unwieldy to build (we built for rung squares, and then added the legs, then the goal assembly. to add the goal we screwed it from below into the goal tray. When we used a clamp as a 'hook' to hold the goal down while screwing the structure flexed and pieces moved about 3" or more from their rest position. I wouldn't want to hang a robot (full weight) from the middle of a low rung and it will flex a lot, it not deform.

We used screws to attach the legs to the 2x4 wedge pieces -- we should have pre-drilled with a long bit because some of them started to split...

Re: Building the Element
 

Robobees!!!!
Who likes honey?
We do!!! Lol I don't know if you guys still remember us, but you bought honey for a member of our team last year (2537).
So if I understand what you're saying, it's that you guys are building THE ACTUAL pyramid that FRC detailed in "The Arena" section? Not the team section

Re: Building the Element
 

LOL. I know all of the backstory with this one...

We plan to build a slightly modified version, but will have a gusseted and welded pyramid that should be very similar to the ACTUAL pyramid.

Re: Building the Element
 

Tentatively, I would say go for building with 1.5" 68 degree angle simply because that is what is defined in the game manual, which therefor means what would be on the field. If your robot isn't too dependent on the thickness of the piping, then you can go 1.25" tubing (I haven't done any research on this yet so I dunno if going smaller would cut costs or not.).

Re: Building the Element
 

Don't be so sure about the one defined in the game manual. From the beginning of the Arena section:
GE-13019 shows a 60 degree angle in the official drawings, which according to the manual have precedence. Hopefully we'll get something in the first update

Re: Building the Element
 

I think I figured it out. If you look at page 56 of game specific drawings. There is a marking for 60 degrees. 60 is the angle between the 4 corner posts, and the horizontal plane.

68 is the angle between the horizontal members and the corner posts in the plane of the side.

The angle between the horizontal plane and the corner posts is different from the angle in the plane of one of the 4 triangular sides between the horizontal bars and the corner posts.

Visual aid two pencils in an L shape tilt the vertical pencil so it is 30 degrees off the table, its angle to the horizontal plane is 30, but the angle to the other pencil in the plane they share is still 90.

Additional hat tip to ZehP who did the math while I did my thought experiment:

Re: Building the Element
 

I still don't see this fully....can someone post a drawn out visual of this?

Re: Building the Element
 

We built 2 here in Cincy, at least materials for 2. We built one for the Kickoff, which we left for Team 144 to use and have the materials for a 2nd at our shop. Once assembled it will stay up for the duration and be available for all area teams to use.

We also only built the feeder/Low goal combo and the High goal. Since the high goal and the middle goal overlap, we figure that if you can hit the high goal, you can hit the middle goal.

Re: Building the Element
 

Team 2068 would like to thank our school's construction technology teacher for agreeing to build an "almost official" pyramid. It may not be done by this weekend but we can probably make it available for teams in Northern Virginia if you let us know you are coming. PM me for directions and such, I will post when its done as well.

Re: Building the Element
 

Like Caltran said, I suspect our team will use the CNC plasma cutter and cut out the plates. They will need some love to look good but should otherwise be very accurate. I imagine for material cost we might be able to make some more for local FRC teams.

-Mike

Re: Building the Element
 

FRC Team 3313 Mechatronics from Alexandria, MN has built an entire field wall out of plywood. Kinda crazy, we know. We are very fortunate to have the space to store them in our school's (former) automobile repair shop.

http://imgur.com/IDOSR

One of our sponsors is also building a pyramid out of steel using technical drawings for us.

Any teams in out state MN who would like to use them, please PM me, email me at 3313coach@gmail.com, or tweet at us @Team3313.

Re: Building the Element
 

Ill try to draw something up based on the PDF

Edit: Tried to show how the angles are measured (what planes they are measured in)

Re: Building the Element
 

I made a thread to capture teams that are allowing others to use their field elements.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...34#post1210534

Re: Building the Element
 

On the 104" pipe it calls for 7 holes drilled in each one I know what the
One is for but don't see what the other ones are being used for.
Or through hole for screw in 60dg block
David

Re: Building the Element
 

See
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=110678

Re: Building the Element
 

I would just also throw a word of caution to any team trying to build the pyramid because of safety hazards and structural integrety. I would personally build the scoring goals instead.
But dont let me dampen your experience, if you want to build a pyramid, test it and make sure that it is secure and strong enough before attempting any practice let alone horseplay near or on the apparatus.

Re: Building the Element
 

I was thinking we might want to implement this rule during build season....

We are planning on building enough of a pyramid to test our robot's ability to climb it. So far, it looks like we'll need one horizontal bar, 30" off the floor. We haven't figured out a way to climb any higher than that.

I priced .095" wall 1.50" structural steel tube at the local welding/steel supplier, it goes for $2.00/ft in full lengths (20 ft), and $2.50/ft if cut to a specific length. How much do we need?

Team 708 built the pyramid on Sunday. We noticed a few things of extreme importance. First was that the hole in the wooden corner brackets when drilled to spec was too large. We drilled a 2 1/4 inch hole instead, then sanded down the points of contact (allowing the pole to take the angle of the support 2x4). It is very important to ensure that the holes for the u brackets are correct. We also noticed that the u-bolts (purchased at Lowes) were not made to a tight tolerance. The fabrication of the necessary pieces took about 6 hours, and construction took about 2 hours. If you plan on constructing I would suggest acquiring a 4 inch deep socket the size of the nut for the u bolt. This will save you a lot of aggravation. When assembled the pyramid seemed very sturdy, enough that one of our mentors (200 + lbs) felt comfortable enough to do a few pull ups on the third rung. Our team has also instituted a no climbing rule!!!

If there are any teams in the philly area that don't have the time, space, or means to build the pyramid send me an email (ezygmont@team708.org) and we'd be happy to have you over.

Re: Building the Element
 

We used 1-1/4 EMT. Its about 1/3 the cost of black pipe, a lot easier to cut, and measures 1.51 OD. It is plenty strong. We will be welding ours in the near future. I don't think the u-bolts and plywood will withstand many climbs.

Re: Building the Element
 

Have you considered a polytarp with appropriate holes cut and taped. It could then be fastened to a piece of EMT and slung from roof trusses. No chains behind the holes but it's cheap, easy to make and easy to store.

Re: Building the Element
 

EMT is usually galvanized. Should only be welded with proper precautions. (Google "Metal Fume Fever" for details.)

-Karlis

Re: Building the Element
 

I got Schedule 10 black pipe sprinkler line @ $1.00 a ft. Came out of a plumbing supply house.
David

Re: Building the Element
 

We are building a scaled version of the pyramid to test out some scaled mechanisms on the pyramid, and so we can get a feel for how climbing can be done.

This is partially because if we did build an actual pyramid, it would be too tall and take up about 60% of our workspace.