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-   -   UpsideDown Frisbees (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110487)

apples000 05-01-2013 19:21

UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Our team's been having some trouble figuring out how to pick up the frisbees from the ground. If we're picking up one in a corner, we'll need a sensor to tell if it's upside down then flip it if needed. Has anybody come up with a good way to flip/detect a flipped frisbee yet?

Gregor 05-01-2013 19:23

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
How do you know you need to flip them?

Sean Raia 05-01-2013 19:25

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Shoot them vertically :yikes:

elsenor 05-01-2013 19:48

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Raia (Post 1208256)
Shoot them vertically :yikes:

Shooting them parallel to the ground will just bother you more than help you. However, shooting it vertically shouldn't cause a lot of problems because the wheel would only be touching the sides of the frisbee, not the faces.

cgmv123 05-01-2013 19:56

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregor (Post 1208253)
How do you know you need to flip them?

Because they don't fly nearly as well when they're upside down.

Gregor 05-01-2013 19:58

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1208295)
Because they don't fly nearly as well when they're upside down.

Who said they need to fly? Do you have a prototype shooter yet? How do you know they don't fly nearly as well upside down? Do you see my point?

tj1673 05-01-2013 20:16

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
I'm not entirely sure of the disc that is actually being used because I have not gotten to see one yet, but, from playing Ultimate Frisbee, I can say that frisbees do NOT fly well upside down (unless you bomb them, which is terribly inaccurate and has poor consistency). Now, I'm not sure how well they would work out of a shooter, but I imagine that even with a consistent machine, they won't fly well upside down.

Andrew Lawrence 05-01-2013 20:18

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
In some tests today, we found a correctly launched frisbee flies perfectly well, upside down or right side up.

tj1673 05-01-2013 20:20

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1208325)
In some tests today, we found a correctly launched frisbee flies perfectly well, upside down or right side up.

Hm. Never would have guessed that. Good to know!

ehfeinberg 05-01-2013 20:30

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1208325)
In some tests today, we found a correctly launched frisbee flies perfectly well, upside down or right side up.

Being an Ultimate Player, I can say that disc's do fly differently if they are upside down. When a disc is upside down, it tends to not fly as far and floats more. Also, a Frisbee thrown upside down tends to wobble to either side.

Because of this, a disc is only thrown upside down in Ultimate if the thrower wants the disc to float down slower. This technique (either through a hammer/thumber/scoober) is often used to get the disc around/over a cup.

When we go to competition, many of the human players will be throwing these types of throws in order to get the disk over the 8 foot high wall. With the float these throws generate, it is extremely difficult to get the disk into a vertical target. This makes the chance of a human player scoring next to nothing.

tj1673 05-01-2013 20:34

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg (Post 1208337)
Being an Ultimate Player, I can say that disc's do fly differently if they are upside down. When a disc is upside down, it tends to not fly as far and floats more. Also, a Frisbee thrown upside down tends to wobble to either side.

Because of this, a disc is only thrown upside down in Ultimate if the thrower wants the disc to float down slower. This technique (either through a hammer/thumber/scoober) is often used to get the disc around/over a cup.

When we go to competition, many of the human players will be throwing these types of throws in order to get the disk over the 8 foot high wall. With the float these throws generate, it is extremely difficult to get the disk into a vertical target. This makes the chance of a human player scoring next to nothing.

About what distance does it take for the hammers/bombs to level out when thrown "correctly"? Would it be feasible to throw them as a hammer and have them land in the alliance pyramid after leveling out?

ehfeinberg 05-01-2013 20:43

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tj1673 (Post 1208340)
About what distance does it take for the hammers/bombs to level out when thrown "correctly"? Would it be feasible to throw them as a hammer and have them land in the alliance pyramid after leveling out?

It defiantly is feasible for a Hammer hit/land in the top of the alliance pyramid. I could probably hit the goal pretty often. However, there is a pole and chain in the middle of the goal, with a piece of polycarb on top of the pole. This thing will cause a lot of the discs bounce right out. Also, I don't know how high the walls are for the goal, but most likely the disc would just the bottom of the goal and bounce out.

Clever idea, and I'll try my luck at accomplishing this feat.

ProgrammerTori 05-01-2013 20:45

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elsenor (Post 1208286)
Shooting them parallel to the ground will just bother you more than help you. However, shooting it vertically shouldn't cause a lot of problems because the wheel would only be touching the sides of the frisbee, not the faces.

Remember the high goal is only a foot gap. The frisbee I think is approximately that size as well. If you shoot the frisbee vertically, getting a 12 in frisbee through a 12 in slot doesn't seem very likely. Shooting vertically will limit you to shooting at the mid goals or lower.

protoserge 05-01-2013 20:48

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Do you even need to pick them up? Make sure you take into account time to pick up, orient, store, retrieve your next frisbee and score vs. getting a full load from the feeder, getting to position, scoring, then returning to the feeder.

You may find that picking frisbees up is not worth the time and effort.

I'm not saying one way is incorrect, only that there are many things that should be considered when making decisions on how to play the game.


To help answer your initial question: have you touched/felt/manipulated an actual game piece yet? That will tell you pretty quickly how to go about what you want to be done, then you convert what you would do into machine motion.

Daniel_LaFleur 05-01-2013 21:11

Re: UpsideDown Frisbees
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ProgrammerTori (Post 1208353)
Remember the high goal is only a foot gap. The frisbee I think is approximately that size as well. If you shoot the frisbee vertically, getting a 12 in frisbee through a 12 in slot doesn't seem very likely. Shooting vertically will limit you to shooting at the mid goals or lower.

The disc is 10 5/8" and will fit nicely vertical in the upper goal, and may actually be able to skip in when it hits the top/bottom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinglikeabee (Post 1208358)
Do you even need to pick them up? Make sure you take into account time to pick up, orient, store, retrieve your next frisbee and score vs. getting a full load from the feeder, getting to position, scoring, then returning to the feeder.

You may find that picking frisbees up is not worth the time and effort.

I'm not saying one way is incorrect, only that there are many things that should be considered when making decisions on how to play the game.


To help answer your initial question: have you touched/felt/manipulated an actual game piece yet? That will tell you pretty quickly how to go about what you want to be done, then you convert what you would do into machine motion.

Considering the travel time to/from the loading zone and the number of discs that will be on the floor due to missed shots, it may be worth while to pick up from the floor (this, of course, assumes an efficient way of picking the disc from the floor).

In the end, your strategy/capabilities should drive this part of the design.


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