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-   -   Climbing Mechanism Ideas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110547)

davidthefat 06-01-2013 14:45
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...fySkGA#t=67 s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtP0BspnSjY
May be a similar principle might work. But that's just throwing any legality out the window.

AhAhPatel 06-01-2013 14:47
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
quick question, has anyone considered the pros and cons of climbing either inside or outside the pyramids? I mean obviously the size limits would come into effect if you were to climb inside, but there are more possibilities I think of getting up. Obviously this size limit wouldn't apply if you climb outside, but there are several problems, like the extra tubing at 30, 60 and 90 inches. I know in our team, we have debated this greatly, and still are split. anything you can add to this debate would be much appreciated. :)

AhAhPatel 06-01-2013 15:00
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
what do you mean by bike peddler design?

Sean Raia 06-01-2013 15:04
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
What if you climbed the edge and used the notches to your advantage?

You'd have to make sure there's a wide enough channel on the underside of your robot so that your components didn't get snagged on the notch, but I think it's feasible.


As for the climbing mechanism... two hooked pneumatic arms that can be rotated down onto the bars on either side of the corner of the pyramid may work.

These hooks could work in such a way that they would slide smoothly against the bars on the pyramid until they catch and hold the robot in place.

(you'd also want a really tight wheelbase)

moogboy 06-01-2013 15:08
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster (Post 1209037)
I like your idea ,how would you keep the 120lb robot from rotating around the pole?
We haven't quite gotten to that point yet (I assume you're talking about the horizontal climber), though I think the plan would be to work out the dimensions of the robot/arms such that either the robot would be supported (for a short second at least) by resting on the lower horizontal OR held very tightly in position (or at least a position where the balancing was manageable) until the third arm grabbed it. We had the same concerns and in part I was throwing it out here because I want to see if anyone else has ideas on how to fix that problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1209042)
When climbing the corners, how would you get over the tubing that's wrapped around the corners? You can't straight up.

- Sunny G.
We would be using the corners to grab onto, and in the first design at least we would be making our "groove" through the bottom such that the robot, riding on the belts that would be moving the grabbing piece(s), just slid right over the corners. Most likely upon further refinement we will add some kind of stabilizing mechanism there to be safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhAhPatel (Post 1209058)
quick question, has anyone considered the pros and cons of climbing either inside or outside the pyramids? I mean obviously the size limits would come into effect if you were to climb inside, but there are more possibilities I think of getting up. Obviously this size limit wouldn't apply if you climb outside, but there are several problems, like the extra tubing at 30, 60 and 90 inches. I know in our team, we have debated this greatly, and still are split. anything you can add to this debate would be much appreciated. :)
My team briefly considered climbing up the inside. We chose against it first because the angle is hellacious to begin with, and getting into an inside climbing position would be very difficult. At the same time, it's an even bigger safety hazard for the robot if we climb up the inside. If ANYTHING fails from the inside, we have to assume that in the worst case scenario the robot falls off the pyramid and lands upside down, which would most likely destroy everything above the frame. The damage could be minimized, sure, but we decided that ultimately the risk was too much.

AhAhPatel 06-01-2013 15:25
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moogboy (Post 1209074)
We haven't quite gotten to that point yet (I assume you're talking about the horizontal climber), though I think the plan would be to work out the dimensions of the robot/arms such that either the robot would be supported (for a short second at least) by resting on the lower horizontal OR held very tightly in position (or at least a position where the balancing was manageable) until the third arm grabbed it. We had the same concerns and in part I was throwing it out here because I want to see if anyone else has ideas on how to fix that problem.



We would be using the corners to grab onto, and in the first design at least we would be making our "groove" through the bottom such that the robot, riding on the belts that would be moving the grabbing piece(s), just slid right over the corners. Most likely upon further refinement we will add some kind of stabilizing mechanism there to be safe.



My team briefly considered climbing up the inside. We chose against it first because the angle is hellacious to begin with, and getting into an inside climbing position would be very difficult. At the same time, it's an even bigger safety hazard for the robot if we climb up the inside. If ANYTHING fails from the inside, we have to assume that in the worst case scenario the robot falls off the pyramid and lands upside down, which would most likely destroy everything above the frame. The damage could be minimized, sure, but we decided that ultimately the risk was too much.
I see what you are saying, but your vision and our team's vision was different. I believe what you are thinking of is like a monkey climbing up on the inside, which yes, i agree would be rather dangerous. (correct me if i am wrong). however, our team was thinking of having some sort of pnumatic driven arm which would extend up and out at the second level and pull our robot up. that way if we could pull that off, the robot would still be in driving position, and if it did fall, it would (hopefully) fall straight back on the tires. I mean, regardless of how we go about climbing this pyramid, it is going to be risky business...

moogboy 06-01-2013 16:04
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhAhPatel (Post 1209086)
I see what you are saying, but your vision and our team's vision was different. I believe what you are thinking of is like a monkey climbing up on the inside, which yes, i agree would be rather dangerous. (correct me if i am wrong). however, our team was thinking of having some sort of pnumatic driven arm which would extend up and out at the second level and pull our robot up. that way if we could pull that off, the robot would still be in driving position, and if it did fall, it would (hopefully) fall straight back on the tires. I mean, regardless of how we go about climbing this pyramid, it is going to be risky business...
I may be misreading what you write, but there are a couple of issues that I see. One, climbing has to be sequential and you can only touch two consecutive/contiguous levels at the same time. So you can touch 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 2 and 3, but not 0 and 2, which is (in my reading) what your team seems to be saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, absolutely, but yeah, it appears that you would be violating the rules by going directly to the second level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Manual Page 28
A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.
If a CLIMB is considered unacceptable (e.g. a ROBOT has touched non-adjacent Levels or more than two (2) Levels at a time), a Referee will indicate a rejected CLIMB by turning the offending ROBOT’S PLAYER STATION LED strings yellow. The ROBOT will be ineligible for CLIMB points unless and until it begins a new CLIMB from the floor, Level 0.
Additionally, it appears as though any sort of mechanism that would reach out and grab onto the pyramid levels from the inside to lift the robot up would occupy a more than 54" diameter circle. If the rules allowed the robot to touch any level in any order, that strategy might work, but 3.2.5.2 G23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Manual Page 34
A ROBOT’S horizontal dimensions may never exceed a 54 in. diameter vertical cylinder.
Please, be sure to correct me if I have misunderstood anything you have said.

Orion.DeYoe 06-01-2013 18:40
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Based on the rules and some common sense (the GDC didn't seem to have any at the time they wrote the rules) I have to conclude that the bar (being in contact with the bar) at 30 in. is part of zone 1, the bar at 60 in. is part of zone 2, and the bar at 90 in. is part of zone 3.
The rules weren't very clear on the exact location of the three zones in relation to the three crossbars.

AhAhPatel 06-01-2013 18:41
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Nope. you are completely right. I had misread the rules to say that a climb is considered invalid if you touch more than 2 at a time that aren't adjacent. (basically you could go from 0 to 2 as long as you don't touch 1). thank you for the clarification! Also, i see your point for horizontal, but i just thought about the vertical aspect, that is if we are touching the pyramid, we can extend vertically to 84". I guess we will have to rethink our approach. however, i thank you for your help!

DjMaddius 06-01-2013 18:42
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion.DeYoe (Post 1209235)
Based on the rules and some common sense (the GDC didn't seem to have any at the time they wrote the rules) I have to conclude that the bar (being in contact with the bar) at 30 in. is part of zone 1, the bar at 60 in. is part of zone 2, and the bar at 90 in. is part of zone 3.
The rules weren't very clear on the exact location of the three zones in relation to the three crossbars.
Look at the picture in the rule book. The lines are ABOVE the bars for the location of zones. Make sure you are ABOVE the bar to get the points, not on it.

moogboy 06-01-2013 18:57
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhAhPatel (Post 1209238)
Nope. you are completely right. I had misread the rules to say that a climb is considered invalid if you touch more than 2 at a time that aren't adjacent. (basically you could go from 0 to 2 as long as you don't touch 1). thank you for the clarification! Also, i see your point for horizontal, but i just thought about the vertical aspect, that is if we are touching the pyramid, we can extend vertically to 84". I guess we will have to rethink our approach. however, i thank you for your help!
Any time! I was thinking about how a robot that climbed in driving position like what you were saying would look and I think it would be visually awesome...GDC why must thou make it hard on us?

tickspe15 06-01-2013 19:11
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Is there any rule against using electromagnets to grip the pyramid.

lorem3k 06-01-2013 19:12
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Given how many people it seems are going to be focused on climbing this year, have any of you considered that you might have to deal with two other robots climbing the pyramid at the same time as you? Sending one robot seven and a half feet above the ground is a scary enough concept on its own, but when you put two more in the mix, it seems to become extremely risky and complicated. Can you say "three robot pile-up"?

Personally, I think the way to go for climbing strategy is to focus on having a strong disc scoring mechanism and shoot 3-pointers for the whole match, and then near the end, grab the pyramid near the bottom and just lift yourself a few inches off the ground for a cool 10 points.

CJ The Expert 06-01-2013 19:14
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
The idea we have been working on would be simple arms to grab onto the first set of bars and just lift our robot off of the ground. This means we can get an easy 10 points (unless our interpretation of the rules is skewed), keep the robot safe from large drops, and allow us more time on shooting and/or defending.

Basically, we're going for a simple climb for a few extra points so that we can spend less time on the problem of how to get high safely, and more on other aspects of the robot that may be useful.

AhAhPatel 06-01-2013 19:17
Re: Climbing Mechanism Ideas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion.DeYoe (Post 1209235)
Based on the rules and some common sense (the GDC didn't seem to have any at the time they wrote the rules) I have to conclude that the bar (being in contact with the bar) at 30 in. is part of zone 1, the bar at 60 in. is part of zone 2, and the bar at 90 in. is part of zone 3.
The rules weren't very clear on the exact location of the three zones in relation to the three crossbars.
It seems from my understanding that the hanging points are given based on where the bottom of your robot is. so: if you hang from the 30" bar and your robot is .5" above the floor (level 0), then you get 10 points. so, if you hang from the second bar, as long as your robot is over the first bar, you are counted in the 20 point zone. basically I think it goes like this: 1st bar to above the floor: 1st zone or 10 points. 2nd bar to above the 1st bar is the 20 point zone. and 3rd bar to above the second bar is the 30 point zone. hope that made sense


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