Chief Delphi - Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

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DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 15:08

Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

I have read all the rules and I have a question that hopefully someone here can clarify...

Is it legal to pick up your opponent's colored disc and score it in your own goal (non-pyramid)?
(It doesn't say you can't do that)

and could this possibly be a good strategy for defending bots?

Andrew Lawrence

06-01-2013 15:08

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakusDarkus (Post 1209073)

I have read all the rules and I have a question that hopefully someone here can clarify...

Is it legal to pick up your opponent's colored disc and score it in your own goal?
(It doesn't say you can't do that)

and could this possibly be a good strategy for defending bots?

There's nothing against it.

Is it a decent strategy? Maybe.

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 15:09

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 (Post 1209075)

There's nothing against it.

Is it a decent strategy? Maybe.

Thanks that helped

CalTran

06-01-2013 15:13

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Score them in your own goal all you want, but they're not worth jack.

Quote:

3.2.4.1 DISC Points
... Additionally, for a DISC to be considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE"S PYRAMID GOAL, it must correspond to the PYRAMID color.

If you score a RED DISC in a BLUE PYRAMID, it's not worth anything (Though you could argue it's worth 5pts that you denied.)

Twest3259

06-01-2013 15:15

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

they'd still count in the one two and three point goals, so essentially you're scoring up to eight points per disc. Because if you made it in the three, and denied them five points.

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 15:16

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1209077)

Score them in your own goal all you want, but they're not worth jack.

If you score a RED DISC in a BLUE PYRAMID, it's not worth anything (Though you could argue it's worth 5pts that you denied.)

What I meant was take an opposing team's colored disc and score it in your high, low, or middle goal... I think that makes the colored disc count as a white disc that anyone can use unless I interpreted the rules wrong :/

bargy101

06-01-2013 15:20

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

At the end of the game when the human players can start throwing the discs into the field, do they have to throw over the wall? Or can they throw around the wall?

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 15:26

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargy101 (Post 1209083)

At the end of the game when the human players can start throwing the discs into the field, do they have to throw over the wall? Or can they throw around the wall?

It doesn't specify whether or not you can throw around the wall BUT if it isn't specified in the rules that means that you are able to do that.

Also stay tuned to http://www.usfirst.org/ in case FIRST updates the rules because they might clarify that pretty soon

slijin

06-01-2013 15:46

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargy101 (Post 1209083)

At the end of the game when the human players can start throwing the discs into the field, do they have to throw over the wall? Or can they throw around the wall?

Something to ask the GDC later, but remember that the netting, which is "made up of three panels that are 10 ft. tall and 14 ft. long", will be there to block throws around the side.

savage

06-01-2013 15:47

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

G17 From looking at the field layout there is no disc return during game play, so I see where you guys are going with this. But per Cal trans Question you are violating G17 and this is a foul.

cosmicexplorer

06-01-2013 15:53

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Ok, but this isn't asking about putting discs in the opponent's pyramid goal. The question is if the opponent tried to put discs in their pyramid goal and missed so the frisbees are on the floor, could you pick those frisbees up and toss them in your own high/mid/low goals for points?

GaryVoshol

06-01-2013 16:07

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

There's nothing in the rules to limit what you do with your opponent's color of discs. They won't count in your pyramid goal, but they should count in one of your other goals - barring a different interpretation from Q&A.

Regarding throwing in the discs, look at the rule again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by G35

DISCS may be fed onto the FIELD only under the following circumstances:
A. during TELEOP through the FEEDER SLOTS and
B. during the last thirty (30) seconds of TELEOP over the FEEDER STATIONS.

See that word "only" there? Round the wall is not over the wall, so it would not be permitted.

plnyyanks

06-01-2013 16:12

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Per the definition of SCORED:

Quote:

SCORED: A DISC is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if any part of the DISC has crossed through the opening of the GOAL, is in the GOAL at the end of the MATCH, and the DISC is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE. Additionally, for a DISC to be considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S PYRAMID GOAL, it must correspond to the PYRAMID color.

Since disc colour only must correspond to the pyramid, I think it would be safe to assume that you can score the other alliance's coloured discs in your own non-pyramid goal.

slijin

06-01-2013 16:14

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicexplorer (Post 1209110)

In short: yes.

Chimera0x694

06-01-2013 16:14

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargy101
At the end of the game when the human players can start throwing the discs into the field, do they have to throw over the wall? Or can they throw around the wall?

You MUST throw OVER the wall. We had one of the Michigan FRC advisers elaborate. You are not allowed to throw discs to the side of the walls.
Hope this helped!:)

slijin

06-01-2013 16:15

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimera0x694 (Post 1209125)

You MUST throw OVER the wall. We had one of the Michigan FRC advisers elaborate. You are not allowed to throw discs to the side of the walls.
Hope this helped!:)

Yes, indeed; thank you.

Out of curiosity, do you remember who this person was?

iPenguin

06-01-2013 16:21

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

If you wanted to throw around the wall, you may be in violation of these 2.

G36

Quote:

During the MATCH, TEAMS must be within their ALLIANCE STATION. Exceptions will be granted for inadvertent or inconsequential infractions and in cases concerning safety.

G37

Quote:

TEAMS may not extend any body part into the FIELD or contact any ROBOT at any time during the MATCH.

ericbanker

06-01-2013 16:28

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

I don't mean to Hijack this thread but it does have a very broad title so I figured I'd post my question here rather than make a new thread. According to R03:

Quote:

The ROBOT must satisfy the following size constraints:

a. total length of the FRAME PERIMETER sides may not exceed 112 in. (see Figure 4-1 for examples),
b. PLAYING CONFIGURATION horizontal dimensions may never exceed a 54 in. diameter vertical cylinder (see G23), and
c. height may never exceed 84 in. tall.

Do "HORIZONTAL" dimensions mean perpendicular to the floor or flush with the robot frame and bumpers? Also, does "PLAYING CONFIGURATION" mean at all times during the match, or is climbing a different configuration? Can a robot extend outside the 54" diameter cylinder while suspending itself on the pyramid?

PayneTrain

06-01-2013 16:29

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

I'd expect interpretation/clarification on Wednesday, but to inject my useless opinion, it doesn't seem likely enough to happen nor enough of an anti-competitive strategy to warrant a change.

Karibou

06-01-2013 16:38

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbanker (Post 1209136)

Are "HORIZONTAL" dimensions mean perpendicular to the floor or flush with the robot frame and bumpers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbanker (Post 1209136)

Also, does "PLAYING CONFIGURATION" mean at all times during the match, or is climbing a different configuration? Can a robot extend outside the 54" diameter cylinder while suspending itself on the pyramid?

From the glossary:
"PLAYING CONFIGURATION: The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing the game (i.e. after the MATCH has started, and the ROBOT has deployed mechanisms, moved away from the starting location, and/or interacted with the field, GAME PIECES, or other ROBOTS). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the course of a single MATCH."

As soon as auton begins and your robot moves in any way, it is then in playing configuration for the remainder of the match, including when climbing.

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 16:41

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Well it seems I should just change the title of this thread to Questions and Answers about the rules for Ultimate Ascent (It seems to have evolved)

ericbanker

06-01-2013 16:44

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 1209145)

As far as I've seen, nobody has come up with a quote from the rules to answer this for sure. In the past, it has been relative to the robot (which is what I believe you mean when you say "flush with the robot frame and bumpers")

From the glossary:
"PLAYING CONFIGURATION: The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing the game (i.e. after the MATCH has started, and the ROBOT has deployed mechanisms, moved away from the starting location, and/or interacted with the field, GAME PIECES, or other ROBOTS). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the course of a single MATCH."

As soon as auton begins and your robot moves in any way, it is then in playing configuration for the remainder of the match, including when climbing.

Okay, thank you for the clarification on that. I was trying to determine how the robots climbed in the Catalyst game simulator, and it seemed like they would have to extend past the cylinder by the way they climb. Then again, they also have to defy gravity to swing back in place to climb further than the first pyramid rung.

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 16:50

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbanker (Post 1209152)

Interesting...

Hopefully no robots fall down from level 3 this year (that would be catostrophic)

bargy101

06-01-2013 16:55

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Also about the colored discs, where are they located during the match? And do you have to wait until the end game to distribute them, or can you throughout the match?

CalTran

06-01-2013 17:00

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargy101 (Post 1209162)

Also about the colored discs, where are they located during the match? And do you have to wait until the end game to distribute them, or can you throughout the match?

Colored discs are located behind the corresponding Alliance wall. The has, so far, been no restriction on when the discs can be introduced to the field, though there are restrictions as far as the method of introduction goes.

DrakusDarkus

06-01-2013 19:04

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

New question: Would it be a good strategy to backup so that your robot is touching the pyramid and then shoot goals so that other robots cant touch you?

Suitster

06-01-2013 19:24

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

Quote:

New question: Would it be a good strategy to backup so that your robot is touching the pyramid and then shoot goals so that other robots cant touch you?

That would be a good strategy to use in order to avoid "external aim adjustment"

Randomness

06-01-2013 19:30

Re: Question about the rules for Ultimate Ascent

I have a question: Does anyone know if you allowed to extend part of a robot into the 1 pt. goals?

G12 says "Robots may not contact anything outside the FIELD." The penalty is being disabled, so anything that risks this is pretty much out of the question.

Arena rule 2.2.1 says that "The FIELD for ULTIMATE ASCENT is a 27 by 54 ft. carpeted area, bounded by ALLIANCE WALLS, FEEDER STATIONS, LOW GOALS, and GUARDRAILS."

So would it be okay to extend into the goal, as long as you don't touch anything? Or is the back of the low goal the boundary, and so you have free reign inside the goal?

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