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-   -   2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111123)

Kusha 13-01-2013 01:13

2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
What are the advantages to having two wheels in a linear shooter? Disadvantages?

hugo3337 13-01-2013 01:16

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
your frisbee has better momentum with two wheels. Unless your motor is good enough that it can take care of that. Also to make sure that after you shoot it reaches top speed faster with two since when using only one youre asking your motor to do more work. Hope this helps!

the down side is that youre using an extra motor and adding some more weight.

Kusha 13-01-2013 01:20

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hugo3337 (Post 1214167)
your frisbee has better momentum with two wheels. Unless your motor is good enough that it can take care of that. Also to make sure that after you shoot it reaches top speed faster with two since when using only one youre asking your motor to do more work. Hope this helps!

the down side is that youre using an extra motor and adding some more weight.

Does it have better momentum because of the increased contact? And wouldn't the frisbee have the same speed of the last motor?

ksafin 13-01-2013 01:26

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Our understanding is the additional contact time results in higher speed.

With one wheel, the frisbee just touches the wheel for a fraction of a second. Two wheels allow for a preliminary speed-up followed by a final acceleration and fly-out of the shooter.

A circular pathway shooter allows vast amounts of contact but has its own flaws. It seems like the linear shooter compensates for this lack of contact by having two wheels.

wireties 13-01-2013 01:33

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ksafin (Post 1214175)
Our understanding is the additional contact time results in higher speed.

Additional contact helps as does avoiding slippage but I think it is more about the relative rotation. The max velocity you can impart with one wheel is half the tangential velocity (because the frisbee is also rotating in proportion to the wheel's rotation and in the opposite direction). With two wheels you can approach the tangential velocity.

You want the firsbee to spin for stability so if using 2 wheels I think one might try running the two wheels at slightly different speeds.


HTH

Ether 13-01-2013 09:29

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wireties (Post 1214181)
With two wheels you can approach the tangential velocity.

I believe the 2 wheels we are talking about here are on the same side of the frisbee (i.e. both wheels are opposite the guide rail).

With 2 wheels, the maximum frisbee speed is still half the wheel tangential velocity.

ctccromer 13-01-2013 11:46

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using two wheels with one on each side of the shooter? My team prototyped the common build with 2 wheels on the same side, but I'm curious how the other 2 wheel build would work

pleaseignore 13-01-2013 13:34

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
What's wrong with a circular path?

CalTran 13-01-2013 13:39

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pleaseignore (Post 1214358)
What's wrong with a circular path?

Search is your friend. Discussed at length in that thread.

Ninja_Bait 13-01-2013 13:48

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ctccromer (Post 1214305)
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using two wheels with one on each side of the shooter? My team prototyped the common build with 2 wheels on the same side, but I'm curious how the other 2 wheel build would work

Frisbees, in general, work by spinning, so having wheels on only one side is just a more elegant and efficient way of imparting spin.

Here's another reason why two wheels is theoretically better than one: Let's say you spin your one wheeled shooter up to a set speed. When the Frisbee contacts it, momentum will be lost, so the Frisbee will leave at less than half the original set speed. The motor can compensate by accelerating the wheel back to its original speed, but more likely than not, the Frisbee will already be gone by then. Two wheels allows you to "sacrifice" the first wheel's momentum so that you don't have as much of a momentum loss at the final wheel.

This is also why a curved track or a belt on a linear track is nice for hurling discs because there is a long period of contact during which the flywheel/Frisbee system recovers any lost momentum.

Of course, I may be unintentionally exaggerating - I have no idea whether the loss of momentum is actually consequential, since I haven't done any of the math.

lcoreyl 13-01-2013 18:07

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusha (Post 1214169)
Does it have better momentum because of the increased contact?

Others answered, but here is the physics 1 equation:
The impulse momentum theorem

F Δt = m Δv

How much force AND how long you apply it determine your change in momentum. More contact = more time

falconmaster 13-01-2013 18:52

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Has anyone out there tried three wheels in a linear shooter?

Oldbikerider 13-01-2013 19:13

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
Our team is also interested in people's thoughts and/or experiences with a 3 wheel linear shooter. If we go with a linear shooter we're thinking of allowing to add a third wheel if it should be necessary.

There are other ways of adding speed to a two wheel shooter, such as a pneumatic or spring trigger mechanism. Until we finish testing, we're keeping all options open for now.

Graham.

Ether 13-01-2013 19:26

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 

I'm skeptical that a third wheel is necessary.

My engineering intuition tells me that the first wheel should be governed at a speed approx 75% of the second wheel. You should then be able to get plenty of exit velocity without slipping.

Has anyone out there tried a speed difference of this magnitude?



Oldbikerider 13-01-2013 19:34

Re: 2 wheels vs 1 wheel in a linear shooter
 
We're hoping two are sufficient. Our tests indicate that it can probably be done with two.

I also question why a speed differential is needed. Why not just impart as much energy as you can with each wheel? We're not looking to maximize efficiency here, just fire discs as fast as possible. What is wrong if the first wheel got the disc to near full speed, then the second wheel doesn't have to do much more.

Graham.


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