Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I am going through strategies and want YOUR opinion. Is it worth going for the 30 point hang if you have a great shooter? Considering space for shooter and climbing, what would YOU do???

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

If you have a great shooter and have space for an effective 30 point hanger I see no reason why you wouldn't

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

What would you consider a "good shooter"? You can easily go for a 10 pt hang and get it in under 2 seconds but if you go for a 30 point hang and it takes about 20 seconds, would it be better to shoot to match those points? Maybe auto coming into play?

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I would compare this to last season.
Do you try the 3 robot balance, or focus on shooting more baskets to try and win the match (with 1 or 2 robots balancing) during eliminations.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Very true too, do you think there will be a large number of teams that can do a 30pt hang in under 15 seconds?

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Personal opinions and quick not-too-exact math:


4 shots in the 2 point = 8 points/unload @ 10 seconds/clip

120 seconds/(takes a robot @10fps 5 seconds to cross a field*2 field lengths+5 second human loading time = 15 sec+10 sec/clip=25 seconds)=4.8 trips (round to 4)

4 trips * 8 points/trip = 32 points

plus maybe a 2 disc 2 pointer/disk auton = 2*2=4 * 2 (auton bonus) = 8

Subtotal 32+8=40

+ quick 10 point hang

50 points

Not taking into account for floor pickup near the end of the match, which would boost your score (quicker "trips" to load up) and shooting only at the 2 point goal. 50 points/match ain't bad if you ask me, and with the amount of extra practice time you'd have by keeping it simple with a shooter you can probably boost it a bit more, compared to spending forever solving a 30 point robot with a probably eh/no shooter.

Then there's the "load the colored discs, climb to the top, dump them in, 50 points" strategy. 50 points for a robot that's a 9 or 10 on a 1-10 scale of difficulty, or 50 points on a robot that's maybe a 4 or a 5. Your choice.

I also believe that any 30 point climber, except for if someone manages to pull off one that climbs the 68 degree pole, would pretty much take up your entire robot.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

That is what I was looking at. Our shooter in 7-8 at 54 feet in 3 point goal right now, and 6-6 in the 2pt and 3pt goal at half court. I feel we have good shooter but i figure if we can score two in auto at 3pt goal and 4-5 cycles in 3 pt goal during tel(not counting if we stay back at feeder station and shoot from there) and a 2 second 10pt hang will be good.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Last year (unless they were 1717), teams scored more by doing the endgame than by shooting. I expect this year to be similar.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Also have to look at world final matches on Einstein. I cant recall a triple balance, teams went for 2 bots balancing or less and kept shooting.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Three of those alliances did win their divisions tripling, to be fair.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Might be due to the fact that there were rarely 3 moving robots for a given alliance at a given time. 3 of the 4 Einstein alliances had consistant triple balances.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

My team decided that the thirty point climb was too consuming of match time and space on the robot, but more importantly, we decided it would consume to much of the build season and leave us with little to no practice time. So we decided to focus on the shooter and leave our programming team with enough time to perfect an autonomous mode and our drive team with plenty of time to reduce transition time during feeding.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Very true on Einstein matches lol. But if your robot alone can get 50-80 points you are in good shape in my opinion. But we are in Michigan....States will for sure be interesting.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

IMO if your robot can get 20 points it will be in good shape. I think 50 to 80 would make you the star of most regionals. If history is anything to go by, the answer to this question is probably hang. In the games I have been a part of, only the top robots have been able to outscore the endgame, and most choose to attempt it anyway.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

A. It's a 60-degree pole.
B. Lots of teams will at least attempt the corner climb.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

100% correct! I think for most teams, they need to be able to secure a 10pt hang, very easy, can do it without any moving parts. Auto will be huge too! If teams can pick up off floor and score lets say 4-5(HOT, Simbotics, etc..) they will have a huge advantage.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

If the last several years of FRC games is any indicator - The overwhelming majority won't hang for 10 points let alone 30.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

The manual says 68 degrees not 60....

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I feel like i remember your name for some reason, it is really sticking in my head! But a lot of teams might not attempt but really a 10pt hang will be the easiest thing in this game if you do it right, beside for just driving around of course.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Depends on how you look at it. ;)

I disagree considering how easy it is to climb the first level.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

What happens when you rotate the pyramid 45 degrees about the vertical axis?

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

If your climbing the corner, the angle you are climbing up at is 60 degrees

If you are climbing a side, you are climbing up at 68 degrees

Having the angle on the pole's diagonal into the pyramid is different than the poles angle from a face of the pyramid.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Why would you attempt to climb from the side? especially with the bars on the outside.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Might be http://d.pr/i/zwM ;)

Last year if you had a drive train you could have balanced if someone let a bridge down for you... Yet in almost 60% of matches NO ONE balanced.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

...and yet we let bridges down for lots of people and didn't get a balance with them at Buckeye...

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Proving my point that teams seem to have this lack of ability to do even the simplest tasks reliably.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Not that they cant, they dont have the coaching to help and guide them towards that. Teams these days try to do the hardest tasks without realizing there ability might not go beyond the simple things.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

FIRST provides evidence that many of us are optimists. I predict matches in the single digits and low doubles for the majority of regional seeding matches.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Ya our districts will be the same more than likely. Michigan is hard though!

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

If it's any help, I think that less than less than 10% of FIRST teams will be able to outscore a 30pt hang using a 10 pt hang and disc pts accumulated during the last 30 seconds, and only 40% of teams will be able to outscore a 20pt hang during the last 30 seconds with discs and a 10pt.

If you can 30pt hang, (for most regions) that will automatically win you 60% of your qualifying matches. That's why it's so restrictive to 30pt hang this year; because it's so valuable.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Anecdotally I want to agree with you but numerically the difference is not very big. The scoring distribution shifts to the right by a tiny amount.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

You don't have to necessarily outscore them in the last 30 seconds if they can only shoot 2 Frisbee and the rest of the time they focus on lining up for hanging or defense and in that time you can score 4-5 loads of 4 disc in the 3 pt goal, 2 during auto in 3pt goal, and a 10 point hang in last couple seconds that is a max of 82 points.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]13553

Actually its 68°.

Also I agree with your second statement. Our team is planing on climbing the side pole because we felt it would be easier.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hlight=pyramid

I made a quick little spreadsheet for choosing where to hang. All you have to do is set how long you think it will take to hang on each level, and how long it would take to do a full cycle of picking up and shooting frisbees.

http://ge.tt/37zgzjV/v/0?c

It's really straightforward, it does assume you make all of your shots in the top goal with 100% accuracy. I don't know if it will be at all useful, but I already have it so here it is.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I ment that it would be easier than the face of the pyramid. Sorry for not clarifying.

I do think shooting would be easier than climbing to the 3rd level, but if you can climb to the 3rd level than you would be a valuable alliance member. If you can climb to the top and put four colored disks in the top goal than you would score 50 points. If partner with an accurate shooter then they can shoot while you play defense then hang. Since your robot would not use the white disks there would be more for your alliance members.

I think the best alliances will be comprised of a climbing robot, a shooting robot, and a defense/feeder robot (to shoot disks to the shooter).

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I don't think there has ever been a true/effective "defense/feeding robot". The best teams are usually the two best primary scorers that can team up with the best defense/secondary objective specialist left on the board.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I think a 50 point climb robot and a very accurate shooter robot would be your primary scorers. If you have two shooting robots and no robot at the opposite end of the field that can feed the other two than they won't be able to put up too many points because they have to travel back and forth. My team was hoping to play the role of 50 point climb and feeder if we have enough time. The best alliance will have a dedicated climber, dedicated shooter, and dedicated feeder. This ensures that your feeder will have plenty of disks and can shoot often while the climbing robot scores 50. This theoretical alliance should easily clear 100 points if your climber doesn't mess up.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Saying as how you were quoting a corner climb post, no.

Here's a picture to help everyone out. This is the updated pyramid CAD after FIRST had Autodesk fix it.

If you are climbing the outside of the corner (The first pic), this is the angle that really matters for you. You will be ascending at a 60 degree angle.

If you climb a face of the pyramid (e.g. NOT the corner) then you will be ascending at a 68 degree angle (2nd pic)

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I doubt many teams will be able to score 30 shooting points, even in all of teleop. On the other hand, almost no one will be able to climb for 30.

My analysis: if you can climb for 30 (ie, you are a powerhouse/strong team), it's worth considering. Most teams will not attempt to hang for 30, and that's ok. Some will be able to make up the difference by hanging for 10 and shooting well, but most will not. A bot that can hand and dump for 50 consistently will be effectively unbeatable in a 1v1 match against almost any other robot. A robot that can score in auto and can climb and dump would be hard pressed to lose a match.

In short, climbing is worth it, but it's still very, very hard.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Both pure shooters and pure hangers have loads of strategic value in this game. I think teams should pick the one that plays best into their resources.

Can't wait to see the alliance selections for this year. I love games like this and 2012 where picking is so much more complex than "rank the robots in order of points scored".

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

There was at least one alliance able to perform triple balances on Einstein last year, but they were unable to complete a match with three working robots due to conditions far beyond their control.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I think you guys are missing something obvious (we missed it kickoff day too).

If a team's robot opts for a 10-pt hang over a 30-pt hang, nothing says that the 20-point differential has to be made up in the last 30 seconds.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

That is what I was getting at, you can make up for over half that in auto then one circuit and ur good!

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Or all of it plus change (well, one robot on the alliance can...).

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Ya if u have an alliance where u all can shoot and all hang for 10 in under 3 seconds and u have good autos u will beat any robot that just hangs and dumps in 5 pt goal

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

This is a quite pervasive characteristic of teenagers in general. Reliable behavior is not highly valued as being too predictable. "Who? Me? Conform to the norm? Get outta here, Grandpa!" A primary value of FRC is providing an activity that demonstrates that reliability and predictability are worthwhile goals.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Assuming that the 30 pt climber can't score in auto...
a 30 pt climber that can also harvest discs from the ground in autonomous is certainly pretty silly for 99% of teams, but having a super simple wheel shooter that can only shoot 3 discs is pretty reasonable.

Although I actually agree that the 20 pts will be able to be made up easily by great shooters.

this year, I can see the possiblity of having 3 good shooters that don't get in each other's way that much, especially in elims after some practice.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Not attacking anyone but some people need to step back a second for climbing. Reading through this, a lot of people are doing weird 1v3 scenarios...I believe the OP was going for 1v1 climb vs shoot.
That in mind, a good shooter should be able to make up the thirty points with three in autonomous, and one trip of four. They can make up fifty with the in autonomous, and then three runs back to the feeder. The runs polls lining up is pushing it a little...you could do two runs and a hang but that's slightly more mechanical difficulty.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I believe auto will be the most important thing this year based in the fact that with a well executed auto u can score mega points, and if u can shoot/score in auto u more than likely can I teleoporated, only adding to your score. I have heard of too many teams who are focusing on climbing before shooting...I do not agree.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

No, the faces are 68° to each other, but the corners are 60° to the floor, and if your team is building a corner-climber, you'd better figure this out quick.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

With lifting you can score 30 pts alone.If you concentrate on shooting instead of hanging, I think it is quite easy to get to the point where you are making all you auton shots in the top basket. Add to this 1 4 frisbee run during the last 30 seconds of a match and you are equal to the pts scored by a lifter.

If you add capabilities to each robot(dumper to lifter and 10pt lift to shooter) it gets a little bit more interesting. The dumper can now score 50 pts just by lifting and dumping + 6pts in auton(50+6=56). However the shooter can score 18pts in auton + 12 pts in the last 30 seconds of a match + 10 pt lift(18+12+10=40). The question is whether the risk of a 3lvl lift is worth the high risk, whether your team has the capability to build a lifter, and whether the extra time spent of lifting could be better utilized by shooting.

For example, an intake(mainly for auton) has a huge benefit to a shooter. It potentially increases the score of a shooter by up to 24 pts(4 frisbees in auton). This game is truly about taking a side based on the capabilities of your team and the risk they are willing to take.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

In this game your robot could have the best functions that never work because of poor drivers, and good driver will make a bad robot better like always but I believe this year it will be a lot about your teams driver practice and how good they really are.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I think a large part of what a team should do depends on where it wants to be in the rankings. Because of the importance of Auto and Climbing points in the FMS, it would seem that focusing on those two aspects alone may be worth a good amount of time.

The debate on our team always centers around the difference between complex mechanisms and complex strategies. We are working on a shooter, 30 point climber, and floor/slot pickup. This sounds complex - but at the same time we are working on designing the most simplistic mechanisms that we can and working on items in order of importance. So - while our frame will be designed to allow for a floor pickup, it will be the last thing that we ultimately build. The first is the shooter/slot feeder, second is the climber, and last will be the floor.

This will not leave us a lot of time of practice with our robot initially, but creating a post-build practice bot will. Its going to be interesting.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

We will see a majority of teams who cannot consistently do either. I attribute this to the fact that a large number of teams are putting a lot of time into a level 3 climber that will not work in the end.

Many teams will show up to regionals with nothing more than a drive train and some hooks that don't work/fail/never get deployed.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

That's why I said for a team's first regional you should plan to have the absolute best shooter you can have and get your drivers as much experience as you can using it and then go for a 10pt hang. Then for the 2nd regional you have more practice and refinement in shooting/feeding and then plan for a 20pt hang. Then, if possible, go to championships with the perfected version of your shooter/feeder and the best driver your team can muster and, possibly, a 30pt hang or a perfected/super fast 20pt hang.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

That's the ideal plan for most mid-level teams.
Unfortunately, we're talking about FIRST here... so biting off more than you can chew is always expected.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Depends on your alliance partners, if they can't hang, but can shoot well, you should probably try to hang, but if they can't shoot, but can hang, let them hang. If they can't do either, I can probably guess who they are within 5 guesses, although your still out of luck.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

1551 is omnomnomming a big mouthful at the moment. We'll see how that turns out!

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

A large number of teams are also forgetting that the pyramids will more tha likely not be the sturdiest things and they will not have tons of room to manipulate.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I don't at all understand what you mean.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Teams need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and make a realistic assessment of what they are capable of.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

First had never texted actual robots on the pyramid, and when a team built the pyramid and put a old robot at around 150 pounds on it, the slide in joints at the corners started to flex and actually twist the pyramid, not so it broke but twisted in the extra space in all of the joints. I just feel like until the release something after week 1 that will strengthen the pyramid, I don wants to risk putting my robot that high in the air.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Are you talking about the team pyramid our the actual pyramid? I think the actual pyramids is one of, if not the strongest FIELD elements ever designed by FIRST

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Right. I'm pretty comfortable hanging near-arbitrary FRC-scale weights off of welded 1.5" steel.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Eh, there's a way to look at it which assumes equal teleop scoring between the alliances. Do you think it's just a coincidence that a perfect autonomous (15-discs) is worth just as much as a perfect triple-30 climb? It's also not a coincidence that both are [mostly] undeniable points -- that is, there's very little that can be done defensively to deny an opponent those points. IMO, they're both equally difficult too.

Are there potentially 3 teams in the entire world who could band together to pull off 180 undeniable points? Probably -- but the selections process probably won't let that happen. I think the common elite alliance will be able to pull off roughly 120+ undeniable points at the more competitive events, depending on the tradeoffs the engineers had to make for hybrid vs specialized machines. After that it comes down to strategy and raw disc scoring ability.

With that said, specializing and doing nothing else needs to be done on a team-by-team basis. It's probably the best option for most teams (bottom 4 sigmas of a Gaussian distribution), but alas, most of those "most teams" won't do it either. You never know, specializing could also fill the niche that 2 'powerhouse' robots need in order to get to 120+.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

So which are we more likely to see first: Three teams hanging from the top or a pyramid collapse into a heap of scrap from all the weight?

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I agree with the specialization approach. And I also think that when we are evaluating what tasks most teams would be successful at specializing in, the order of tasks ends up prioritized like this:

3 pt shooting

10 pt hang

5 pt shooting

Floor pickup and shooting in autonomous

20 pt hang

30 pt hang

So the 30 pt hang should be at the bottom of the list....but maybe I just say that because I haven't figured out a way for our team to do it, after two weeks of thinking about it.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Please cite your source for this. They may not have tested robots built by teams, but I would be amazed if they did not build their own robots to test the game and ensure the pyramid was strong enough.

There are many reasons not to hang, but I do not think fear of the pyramid breaking should be one of them.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

You didn't build the actual pyramid, you built the team pyramid. The actual pyramid is welded together and doesn't have wood and U-bolts holding it together.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Definitely the former. No way something built like that collapses.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I'd be willing to bet that they hung more than three competition weights on it. A steel wielded structure with the specific purpose of hanging robots on it has probably been designed, redesigned, and overdesigned.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

It was not from an online source, it was a FIRST FTA.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

The pipe is not the problem, the steel pipe can hold plenty of weight. The joints where the couplings slide into each other, that is the weak point.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

But looking back it wouldn't be the first time they had to redesign game after launch, logo motion for example, the pegs for hanging tubes had to be fixed

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Ok I think we are getting off topic

I think if you have three robots that just get to the 10pt thats 30pt not including shooting and auto :yikes:

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

This is the way our team saw it.

Last year, we were pretty lacking on strategy and baiscally went right into design.

Are we shooting? Yes. Are we cooperating? Yes. 3 pt hoop? Yes. Play defense? Yes. Play offence? Yes.

Anyway, we took the more specialized approach this year. We didnt have much success as a shooter in 2012. Yes, we could shoot the threes and twos, but not on a level that made us competitive. Shooting is a variable thing. Lots of things change while you're shooting. Your surrounding change. Your position will change (Even if we think we're at the same spot, its easy to be off). The discs themselves will change. To what extent is unknown, but game pieces will change match to match.

What wont change? The pyramid. Our robot. There's a lot less variables in climbing.

From another angle, how may actions of shooting does it take to get 30 points? Well, you have to get discs, grab them, shoot them, and do that at least 10 times.

Climbing the pyramid is a repeatable, reliable, one time action. It works or it doesn't. We go to the pyramid and do our climbing. Not having to worry about all these factors (some of them we may not even fully understand) made us go for the pyramid.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I like your thought process (it's how we did it too, to an extent) and think you have a great strategy. Yet consider that 5 scored autonomous discs are just as repeatable, reliable and quick as pyramid climbing. The only variable is disc warping, but we have a design that accounts for that. Food for thought next year (the GDC has become very good at designing tradeoffs into their games).

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

We saw this as well, but our lack of success with shooting projectiles last year made us wary of going off and trying to score the big points with that again.

PS Im intrigued on this "accounting for warp" you sneaked in there.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

On the pyramid climb: The top zone of the pyramid gets pretty space restrictive, making it seemingly difficult for multiple inside climbers. Three 20 point inside climbers will be tight.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I'd argue that a 10 point hang plus shooting is a faster way to score than just shooting given how achievable the 10 point hang is. I'd compare 30 vs 10 + score 7, not 30 vs score 10.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Our analysis on kickoff was:

A 30-second climb with 20 point dump is acceptable.
A 20-second climb with 20 point dump is good.
A 10-second climb with 20 point dump is great.

A 30-second climb with no dump is okay-ish.
A 20-second climb with no dump is acceptable.
A 10-second climb with no dump is good.

As a great hanger in 2010, it didn't occur to us until reading CD later that other people wouldn't be clambering for a climb. Our specific capabilities lend themselves more to climbing than autonomous programming -- something we're working on, of course, because we always want to be better than we are -- so as far as priorities we are tending in that direction even though skill-independent strategy leans us the other way.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

I would be surprised if there is reliable 30 point climber all season long that is not at least a regional semifinalist. At most regionals such a robot is probably at least a finalist. Sames goes for a reliable 30 second climb with a frisbee dump, except you shift it up to regional finalist and winner. In my opinion that puts them far above "okay-ish" and "acceptable".

Consider how big of a swing a minibot was in 2011, and then realize that it takes 2 teleop scores in 2013 to equal 1 in 2011. (I realize shooting discs & placing tubes are not equally as hard, but the average alliance shot 2 balls in the middle goal in 2012...)

As always, I would love to be wrong. :o

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

You may be right. We climbed with no issues (beyond a slipping set screw, from which we've learned our lesson) in 2010--indeed our 2013 lift isn't a whole lot different than our 2010 lifter... So in that sense I look at it and say, "gee, that's hard, but not *so* hard--and once you've got it, you're nails."

Part of me thinks that every regional will have a dozen or more robots that 30+20 climb, and part of me feels that one or two robots at most will do so, and despite our confidence we're not going to be one of them...

I'm having a hard time picking apart this game. I know how it should be played, but how it will be played still eludes me.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Woah, hold on there! How do you climb without any moving parts? Lifting yourself off the ground requires doing work, which necessitates moving parts... (unless you use straight kinetic energy, but then you have to stay above the ground for 5 seconds before it is scored)

EDIT: I stand corrected: http://youtu.be/MFRCiEeyjDU

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

that's fantastic!

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

If teams are concerned about disc warping, I quickly learned this year that it will be almost a non-issue.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...66&postcount=9
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=13
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=15

I made this assumption on another thread and was quickly corrected. After receiving several replies, I do not believe that this will be an issue.....

I think that a 30 pt hang is completely worth it if it can be accomplished. Teams just need to consider what they can do. The bottom line in all robot designs is that the best designs are the ones that work. I'm guessing, based off of Rebound Fumble, that if a team just developed a dumper and 10 point hanger that works reliably every time, they could win a fair amount of qualifying matches and be picked for elims at most regionals.

Re: Shooting Vs. Time hanging 30
 

Don't take anyone's word for it. Take some of your own discs, put them through your prototype shooter at max speed with the exit pointed straight at a wall that's only a few feet away. Take some of of your other discs and drive last year's robot over them, bot right-side-up and up-side-down. Then make your own decision as to whether or not the dsics can warp. Then perhaps listen to CD about probabilities of occurance (or run the simulation to figure out how often things happen -- either way).

Many CDenizens have a bad habit of conjectures that are only based in thought. Don't change your mind solely on account of them.