Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Here is my teams final shooter for the 2013 season. We are shooting accurately from 60ft away.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/user/teamupnext?feature=mhee

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Your shooter is amazing, congratulations. How did you do to deal with de vibration and the recoil force?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Brilliant!

My team is trying to make our shooter almost exactly the same as yours, including the way you stack frisbees and send them to your shooter. However, we are having problems with getting full court shots that are consistent. Our accuracy and consistency varies quite a bit.

Do you have any tips for making our shooter accurate and consistent? Any tips for the frisbee hopper system as well?

Great job by the way!

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Looks like stock again just went up on 84 inch robots

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I guess we're gonna put some tread along the arc of our shooter....we are doing ok, but not good enough to make full court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rafV51xbnOk

thanks for the video, it's inspiring

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

What kind of wheel are you using? And what diameter is it?

We are using a 12inch pneumatic wheel. We use 12inches because the frisbee contacts the wheel for a longer period of time. Also, compression is a big part of it. The wheel on ours is fairly flat. It doesn't have much air in it. Therefore, the tire cups the frisbee. We have found the happy medium when compressing the frisbee. If you have to much compression the frisbee will just spit out and not go to far because there is to much friction. If you don't have enough compression, the frisbee won't get that far.

Consistency is hard for sure. We made sure our platform on the curve was slick so the frisbees could slide easily. Also, our curved angle had to be touching the frisbee the same amount of time all the way around the wheel.

The hopper we are still working on. When the bottom frisbee is sitting there waiting to be shot, it is getting sucked in by the wind of the wheel. And when it does that, our frisbee's cup. Also, the whole platform is vibrating, so the frisbee's move a lot. To fix that, we are going to use a pneumatic piston that is vertical and extends on one side of the frisbee, when doing that, it keeps the frisbee in place. When we are ready to shoot, we will pull that piston down and then fire. It then repeats the process.

I hope that helps.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Thanks!

Yes we do have vibration problems. It actually effects our hopper when the frisbees are stored. That is the only problem as of now.

But overall, the vibration isn't to big of a concern. Everything seems to work well.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Is your strategy to shoot full field in every match or is it just something you wanted to be able to do?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

We are planning to shoot full field as much as possible. If for some reason we can't, then we will just shoot at the pyramid.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

So, effectively, you plan on taking, at maximum, about 6 shots? (Assuming your alliance wants to give you all six colored discs?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I think he means from the pyramid at the high or mid goal still

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Oh no no. Sorry I said that wrong. We are not going to shoot at the pyramid itself, we are just going to shoot there so we are in the safe zone. We will be aiming for the 3rd scoring goal.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

You may have a shot from one of the corners to the side of the top goal. alternatively, you might be able to shoot through the pyramids. With that much velocity, even accurate shots at the pyramid may glance/bounce off. Overall, very nice job!

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Ah right then. That would make more sense. What height are you shooting from, and will it be a variable height/angle?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Looks awesome.

I like your building.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

In the video, we are shooting from about 3ft. And we are attaching lead screws to the shooter, so we can get any angle.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Looks like this teams gets a cookie.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

This video seems to prove that the full-court shooter is a viable (albeit somewhat easily defended) match strategy.

I say somewhat, because if you're touching that loading station carpet, you're untouchable, and if you design your shooter right at the top of your 60" envelope, you may be able to get enough rise out of your frisbees to clear an 84" robot just a few inches away.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

That is very true! If your robot is not high enough, other robots could defend you at the loading station. Our robot (as of now) is only going to be 28inch tall. So we might have that problem. If so, we will just pick frisbee's off the ground and score at the 3rd goal.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I saw another strategy mentioned in another thread, and I think you might see some of the powerhouses make use of it in Eliminations at shallow-ish regionals.

Redabot1 is a 60" tall high-accuracy full court shooter intended to shoot from the loading station.
Redabot2 is unknown
Redabot3 is a short, weak box bot as the 24th pick.

Bluabot is an 84" tall blocker bot.

Redabot1 goes to its loading station with Redabot3 glued to its bumper on the shooter exit face.

Bluabot can get no closer to the shooter of Redabot1 than the length of Redabot3's chassis. This should give enough distance for Redabot1's DISCs to rise above Bluabot's 84" block.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Yeah exactly! That will probably happen. But I think there will be very few robots that are 60'' tall and can shoot that well. There are just a lot of factors that would make it unreliable. From my experience with FIRST, top heavy robots never seem to do well at all.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Or...Redabot 1 tips over well before reaching the loading station due to its raised cg. ;)

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

hahaha exactly! ;) That is what will probably happen. Our drive train has two speeds so we could easily ram someone that high and knock them over.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

That's what my money's on.

If you look at our robot last year, on a 38X28 base, 60" was pushing it on how high we could go before becoming incredibly unstable. Granted, this was with a shooter on the top of the robot, but still that means that it will be very unlikely that any shooting robot will be successful with a height of over 45" tall. Defensive bots with light superstructures and a heavy bases made explicitly for blocking Frisbees can probably be taller than that, but they better be careful about it. If they even slightly out-build their base, they need to either have some sort of anchoring system, or be ready to end up on their side in a pushing match between them and the team they're blocking.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I sketched a design for a tall shooter, there is no need for it to tip over, it doesn't need to have much weight up top if it's designed well. I hope we see a few of them that pump Frisbees in the high goal like crazy.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I would say it is really hard to design a robot that is tall and that is not easily knocked over. Yes, i can be done, but in the 6 weeks we have to build, it is very difficult.

I believe there will be teams that are tall and can shoot well, but they will not make it very far because they can be blocked before they even get in their shooting position. Remember, the robot has to drive almost the whole length of the field to get to its shooting position.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

We made a tall robot in 2007 that never even thought about falling over, it was very bottom heavy, even though it was 60" tall and had an arm about 50" long sticking out of it. It is a little bit more challenging this year with the reduced frame perimeter, but it's still very doable. A full court shooter does not need to store any discs, it just needs to get them dropped in one at at time and shoot them right out. I can't see it needing more than ten pounds above the base of the robot.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Right, but there still a few ways that could work out for them.

They could somehow be able to shoot full court with an incredibly light shooter.
They could have a collection system and just pick up the few missed shots from a robot like yours and put them in for that extra ~15 points.
Or, maybe they can't make it full court but they have a teammate they can feed to a la Bomb Squad on Einstein last year.

Which of those options, only the literal long shot allows for a self-sufficient robot which is very important for qualification matches. Thus, I think most teams will pass on being very tall.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

6 weeks? Making a tall robot that doesn't tip can be done over lunch break at your regional. Lexan and some 1/16in box aluminum doesn't weigh very much.

Also as a word of caution, intentionally tipping an opponent ends very, very badly. ;)

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

But what if the Frisbee they're trying to block is shot so hard it knocks them over?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Wouldn't Bluabot just keep ramming Redabot3 thereby hitting Redabot1? Bluabot isn't touching Redabot1 which is protected in the loading station, but Bluabot wouldn't be touching Redabot1 and they only need to disrupt the shooting enough to cause the discs to miss.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

That all defiantly could be done. I do agree with what you said. I think teams will pass on the idea of a tall bot too. The successful robots will be the ones that are small and are very maneuverable and fast. (like bomb squad).

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

I hope we don't get the situations where teams playing defense against tall, tippy robots gets penalized because the other team failed to build a non-tippy robot. The refs need to look at the hit/pushing itself and not the end result.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Yes, this is true. But i won't look very good :) I am always weary of light robots that aren't build strong. It doesn't seem to me like a good idea to make your robot so darn light and flimsy.

Oh, yes I am aware. I am the lead driver, and I understand. :) That doesn't mean you can't accidentally knock them over ;)

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

It doesn't mean that while you're going to the pyramid to shoot from that protected zone that the tall, tippy robot won't try to block you, thus sealing their own fate.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

We are using an 8" pneumatic wheel. We have been able to shoot our frisbee far, but not consistently or accurately. Thanks a ton for the info.

Is there anyway for you to describe the amount of compression you're using better? I know it's hard to tell. We think we have found the right amount, but we could be wrong.

What material is your platform made of?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Right. A lot of people are using the 8" pneumatic wheel. I am assuming it is the Andy Mark one?

With the compression, what we did was we built the curved side all around the wheel to measure 11" exactly. This way, the frisbee barley touches the wheel when spinning. Then what we did was we started layering the curved side with material that we though would work. We used double sided sticky tape to mount the layers on the side. On the curves side we had these layers (in order). Metal-sticky tape-black pvc plastic-stick tape-tred.When you do that, it builds up the compression. We also let air out of the wheel a lot. So when the frisbee comes around, it cups the frisbee.

The platform is made out of black pvc plastic.

I hope that helps.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

How are you targeting in the video and how will you target during competition?

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

We didn't target in the video. We just set ourselves up at the right distance.

For the actually game, we will use a camera. I am not exactly sure how to explain all that, but i know we will use the camera to target our distance. Sorry :/

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Seriously? Daisy was 7" under that 60" max last year, and you could bounce them (like this). Ok, Daisy's awesome, but even we were 58" last year, and despite dukes-of-hazarding the barrier, we only ever tipped by being levered/pushed off the bridge (which isn't so much CG—and sometimes not even then). Very few of the good dunkers we pushed around ever even started to tip. Heck, forget how tall everyone had to be in 2007 and 2011: 2008 was throwing trackballs and even the tall guys did fine if they planned for it. The perimeter isn't that much smaller this year. Design around it (particularly in spec'ing your shooter); it's entirely doable. Dig back into history a bit a poke around--there's plenty of inspiration to see.

As for making a 60"-84" blocking robot--that's definitely a lunchtime job. Assuming you picked a well-built bot to begin with, getting them the extra 2-5' in an effective, durable, low-CG, and even good-looking fashion is entirely doable if you prepare. Check out some of the good nets from prior years. We've pulled off much crazier conversions in less time.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

They could, but if the full court shooter had opted for aiming at the 2 pt target (much easier given the angles), they have a 54"x21" opening they're firing into. you have to disrupt their shot a fair bit before you'll make them miss. You may make them 'miss' into a different goal than the one they were aiming for.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Right. Exactly. The 2 pt is way easier to score while being defended.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Furthermore, if your teams' strategy is a full court shooter that essentially parks at the feeder station, which seems to be more valid this year than ever before, MAKE SURE YOU PRACTICE doing it while being defended. Slam a past robot into it while you're shooting, make sure that you can play through being defended, better still if the 'defenders' can violate the loading station no-touch rule, and your shots STILL succeed.

Re: Full Court Shooter!!! (Team 3528 UpNext)
 

Yes sir! We plan on doing that. It is very important that we practice having a defender this year.