Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

2008 had a semi-automated scoring system. The lap counter scored your lap points; it was 100% accurate.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Due to the bad positioning of the sensors (directly at the center of the balls), the DOGMA algorithm would occasionally give penalties if two balls returned together and the sensor did not detect them as different bals. While the scoring was good, the return was not.

At Week 1 and Week 2, the scoring system was very very bad. The issues were mostly resolved by week 3, but our scouting at CMP recorded 4 false negatives (not including false positives) in our division, and the rules explicitly prevented the refs from awarding any points due to sensor failures (although the MI refs largely ignored this, thankfully).



If the system is not 100% reliable, then the rules should allow the refs to override a clearly incorrect score by the automated system and the scoring system should allow the FTA's to manually enter scores. The assumption that the system is perfect is the problem with FIRSTs automated scoring systems.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Don't confuse real-time scoring with automated scoring. IIRC, the laps were still "counted" by score keepers, who then entered them into the system in real time.

That being said, there have been issues with human kept real time scoring in the past as well. Namely in 2009. Also the annoying tendency in 2005 with the lack of blue on the display.

How did I forget about 1712's favorite rule!?! :o

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Actually there were two different automated systems for scoring in 2006
The one for the high goal worked pretty well... but the low goal scoring one did not...

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

The 2010 sensors are the reason we didn't play in the elims at champs. It's hard to make up 10 DOGMA penalties and still beat the opponent.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

But hey, in 2010 it probably helped your seeding!

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Except when the chute jammed, and the pokey-pokey stick didn't clear it fast enough. The balls didn't get counted for auton, and then because there was a delay, they weren't counted for teleop either.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

This prediction is an interesting one. While I agree that at some point manual counting of frisbees will be necessary due to reliability issues, I question if it will be for many matches.

The weight of the frisbees is 180 +- 5 grams. If the weighing sensor was perfect and all frisbees were perfectly supported by the bottom plate of the goal, the minimum number of frisbees necessary to appear as the weight for a different number of frisbees is 36. Assuming that the weight sensor has a threshold at the half way point between whole frisbee weights this number can be halved to 18 (since 18 frisbees can give you a +- 90 gram range). I think it will be relatively uncommon for alliances to put 10+ frisbees into the same goal, which means most matches should have a pretty large margin for error with the weighing sensor. The goals have vertical sides so the only way I can see bad readings occurring is if a frisbee is partially supported by a hanging chain or is sticking out of the goal.

I do think that correct frisbee counting will be more of a problem in elimination matches. The larger number of frisbees scored by high caliber teams (also more likely to be concentrated into the single goal with the highest point value) will mean that the tolerances on frisbee weight have a higher chance of resulting in a miscount.

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Right on the nose... Didn't they eventually manually count every match?

Re: Car Nack Predicts 13-4
 

Yep, every single match at every single event.