Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

So.....being a hybrid has little to do with how much mileage it gets, eh? But I expect that depends on your driving habits, if you don't do a lot of stop-and-go then you aren't really taking advantage of the hybrid system.

I think it's kind of humorous that most folks don't seem to "get" the fact that we can make cars get really good mileage using old technology...the hard part is getting people to want to buy tiny cars with tiny engines.

sorry for the thread hijack

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

My car has ~230,000km on it at the time of writing, it had ~156,000km on it when I bought it in May 2011.

You can certainly run without the IMA battery, and the DC-DC will just run off the IMA Motor to keep the 12V charged, provided you have some parts of the IMA system intact.

I would not hesitate to spend the ~$2100 for a new MaxIMA battery from Eli at http://www.bumblebeebatteries.com/ if my car needed one. Its 8Ah (vs the 6.5Ah factory battery), brand new cells (vs the "new" old stock or refurbished that Honda will sell you), and they perform better under load, and heat up less. They're better in every measurable way, and cheaper to boot.

Eli actually owns 3 or 4 insights, and one of his is approaching 500,000mi. ~200,000mi is nothing for these cars.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

100% correct. The 2000-2006 Insight's fuel economy comes from its low frontal Cv (2nd lowest of any production car ever. Only GM's ill-fated EV1 was better), its low rolling resistance tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE92 in a P165/65R14 size [any other tire, even "LRR" tires, commands a 5-10% mileage hit]), its stratified-charge lean-burn engine (it runs at AFR's of up to 26:1, where most cars won't run leaner than 14.7:1 stoichiometric. Other cars with similar engines include 92-95 Civic VX's), and its lightweight all-aluminum chassis (almost everything in the car is either aluminum or magnesium. Curb weight is 1865lb). Ultimately, the hybrid components are mostly just there to supplement the 3cyl, 995cc, 65hp gas engine's anemic performance and make it at least a little fun to drive.

Being a race car driver on the track in my spare time, I would describe my driving style as 'spirited'. I will take corners fast, accelerate hard, and brake late. My driving style is not particularly fuel-efficient, but in the insight, in the dead of winter, trudging through 5"+ of snow, the worst I've ever made the car do was 6.0L/100km (39.2 US MPG). In the summer, I can squeeze as low as 3.2L/100km (73.5 US MPG) out of a tank, and my worst summer tank was around 4.2L/100km (56 US MPG). My record tank (40L, 10.6 US Gal) carried me 1235km (767mi).

I bought my insight to replace an Acura 1.6EL (Acura's Canada-only version of a Civic Si), which I was consistently averaging ~8.0L/100km with, since I drive about 1000km/week. I calculate that the Insight saves me approximately $5000/yr in fuel costs, and I paid $6500 for the car.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

Compare to the old Geo Metro...same size engine, nothing high tech on it, not as good of aerodynamics etc, and only got a little bit worse mileage.

I like the Insight name of the Honda.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

Yep. Actually, I've seen a couple of those old Metro's converted to Battery Electric Vehicles.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

Not much old tech in these Insights.

Weight: They did everything possible to make them light, magnesium oil pan, lots of aluminum in the structure, tiny 12v battery (270cca from the factory) to the thinnest thing to ever pass for carpet.

Aerodynamics: Taken to the highest level from the fender skirt style rear wheel openings, under body skirts, to the wheel design.

Finally the power train used lots of tricks too. One compression ring instead of the standard two. Lean Burn mode, as high as 22 to 1 AF ratio (5sp federal emissions version only) that required the use of a special catalytic converter and a Lean Air Fuel sensor instead of a conventional O2 sensor, not to be confused with the modern wide band O2 sensor. Finally, variable valve timing to allow it to operate in a Atkinson mode to reduce pumping losses.

So I'd say they got good MPG despite the (heavy) Hybrid system. Remove the IMA motor/generator and battery pack and you could actually get better hwy MPG, provided you didn't encounter hills and kept the throttle opening and rpm down so it stays in lean burn mode.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

This is one of my biggest frustrations with the current mindset of the average car buyer. When I tell people my car has a 60HP engine, I sometimes get a very sincere follow up question of "oh wow, can you drive at highway speeds with 60HP?" If the car has less then 120HP, people sincerely believe it doesn't have enough power to operate. With this misguided assumption, people buy cars with WAY more power than they will ever use (with the exception of people who buy performance cars with the intent to use that performance). So the entire car market is shifted towards oversized engines - which means lower fuel economy.

Re: Using the 12V 18AH Batteries in a car
 

I've had my insight at speeds in excess of 100mph (160km/h). It can operate in excess of the speed limit on every road in North America. The highest north american speed limit I know of is 85mph on parts of I-10 through Texas.

However, wind resistance increases with the square of speed. Fuel consumption increases dramatically after about 60mph. I strongly suspect with a long enough straight, flat road, that the insight could exceed 200km/h. Gearing is VERY tall in the insight's 5MT. ~60mph (100km/h) at the redline of 2nd gear. When I started slowing down from 160km/h, it was because I was running out of road, not because I ran out of acceleration. IIRC, I was still in 3rd gear.