Rules on building after bag day?
 

Hi guys,
What are the rules for building after bag day. For example, could we build and test a component after the bag day, and then reassemble it on our final robot at the competition?

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

You have a withholding allowance of 30 pounds. You can keep 30 pounds of prefabricated non COTS items which you can then use at the competition. Some teams keep their electronics for a practice robot, other teams keep a subsystem which needs more work to be reliable. Be very careful though. You don't want to go over the weight limit, and you don't want to spend your first day building your robot instead of practicing with it.

Good luck.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

As long as your robot stays sealed in the bag and your component weighs less than the witholding allowance, you can build away. We pack a tape measure IN our bag in case we need emergency measurements. It worked great last year.

You would need to install on pit day of competition. You don't necessarily need to deconstruct your component if it weighs less than the allowance.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

You can bring in 30 pounds of projects you have worked on.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Sorry, but what does "COTS" stand for?

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Commercial off the shelf. So anything you buy pre-made and have not modified or assembled onto anything.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Emphasis mine.

What do you mean, "in case we need emergency measurements"? Once the robot is bagged, it's bagged. You're not supposed to design off of it, touch it, interact with it, probably not even look at it. After Ship Day, the robot ceases to exist in the physical world until your first regional.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Only a tape measure? We bag the smallest kid on the team just to be sure. ;)

But all kidding aside, I would read sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5 of the manual as they are the rules on this matter.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

We've been thinking about just declaring our smallest kid on our BOM and making her part of the robot.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Don't forget to pack them a sack lunch or two ;)

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

The Glossary in the game manual has a good definition. See p 90.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

If your assembly weighs less than 30lbs and you don't need to bring in other fabricated items then bring it in assembled. If it weighs more than 30lbs then remove the COTS items like motors, transmissions, and wheels so that they are in their "as purchased" state and then only the fabricated items count as part of your 30lbs.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Actually, after reading sections 4.1.4 and 4.1.5, I still don't have a clear understanding of what "hands-off" means in R18.

Lacking an official definition of "hands-off", I would actually interpret this as meaning that the robot cannot be modified, adjusted, or tweaked while it is in the bag. Measuring would not violate that. Turning wrenches, drilling holes, and wiring components would violate that.

:confused:

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Think of the old days when we put the robot in a box and Fed-X hauled it away. That's "Hands-Off" and that's the way you should consider it. Putting a tape measure in the bag, then manipulating it through the plastic cannot be construed as "Hands-Off", and , I feel, a violation of the spirit of the lock-up rules.

I guess anyone with the courage of their convictions could put a question in to the Q & A asking if it is legal to put a tape measure in the bag so the team could continue to take measurements so they can work on fabricated parts, but then some of us would probably rather not know.

Come on guys, you know what FIRST expects!

Dr. Bob
Chairman's Award is not about building the robot. Every team builds a robot.

Re: Rules on building after bag day?
 

Consider this statement in 4.1 of the robot rules:

"When reading these rules, please use technical common sense (engineering thinking) rather than “lawyering” the interpretation and splitting hairs over the precise wording in an attempt to find loopholes. Try to understand the reasoning behind a rule."

Now consider what Bag & Tag is -- a less expensive replacement for shipping crates. I would think that using your CAD drawings for measurements after bagging is "hands off", but a measuring tape, even through plastic, needs hands.

Now...it was far simpler to box up that small team member when we still used crates.... And air holes were easier, too. :D