Event Predictions
 

Not quite a Car Knack thang but sorta.
Things I expect to see at the 8 event I go to this season:

I expect to see a half dozen to a dozen robot have their day ended from a topple from the third level to the floor. I am actually planning ahead for this and will have eight backups on standby to prepare for this. Last year I went through alot of robots (with Alamo having to go to five backups. Though to be fair a couple of them packed up and left) and the bridge wasn't nowhere as brutal as the pyramid can be.

Unfortunately I expect to see either a volunteer, member of a robot drives team or most likely a guest get severely injured by a game piece. I have seen several people get hit by game pieces over the years and mostly its pretty benign when it happens. Poof balls and inner tubes don't really hurt (and I've seen a ref take a point blank shot to the face with a soccer ball hard enough to knock his glasses off but he was relatively unhurt). In fact I think FIRST should give serious consideration to limiting VIP access to the field due to the amount of danger from the flying disc and how far too often the VIP are a little too loose with how aware they are when they are at the field (they should keep their kids strictly under control when they bring them out the field. We had one kid in DC make a run for the field during the elims right when a robot was coming right to where he was racing to and had to be grabbed by a volunteer. The mom just stood there and watched him go. Not cool). Can't have that this year or someone could end up needing stiches.

I expect to see a TON of G35 penalties. There are teams who don't read the rules in the first place and they certainly don't read up on the updates and many (far far too many) human players are poorly trained because teams underestimate how important a properly functioning human player is to the efficient operation of the drives team.

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I share your concern for safety. These disk will be flying at high speeds and the rules have no direct limit on it. (I guess the inspectors can deem a robot unsafe.) I also wondered about the practice fields - do they all have netting and are people going to be kept back from them? Are belays required for getting robots down from the practice towers?

The high speed spinning wheels could pose a hazard as well - with maybe 1,500 or 2,000 robots having high speed spinning wheels will every one survive the season without a single wheel coming apart at some point. That's one of the main reasons our robot looks like it does. We do a lot of off-season demos with kids packed in near the robot rather closely.

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The Practice fields are like saloons in the Wild West. I'm amazed there aren't fist fights breaking out. Teams crowd the field and overstay their time limit to make sure their robot is working to their satisfaction not caring one bit about the other teams at the event and certainly not heeding the poor overwhelmed volunteer any mind. It's like they left their GP back in the pit. This year I fear it will be a red zone for potential injures.

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This brings to light an important question - should I be watching out for any genius teams who think test firing discs in their pit is a great idea?

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Most likely.

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The backup Belay system will be on the practice field.
I actually wonder what will happen first on the practice field: someone having a robot fall on them or getting hit upside the head with a Firsbee at point blank range.

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You should be fine in the pits since safety glasses are mandatory. ::safety::

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I feel like this year the 772 hard-hats should be necessary. Practice fields will be similar to a war zone around the pyramids. And of course there'll be that human player throwing frisbees across the field that could seriously hurt someone.

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Safety glasses won't protect you from getting your head split open by an errant disc upside the head.

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It would not surprise me if FIRST mandates drive teams have to wear some sort of helmet on the field.
I am seriously thinking of purchasing one of these.

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I'll be a ref for the first time this year - I was thinking of going with one of these

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I laughed so hard my strained neck started hurting again...:D

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I'd just like for more safety features to be added before someone gets hurt, rather than after. That old saying applies here, "it's all fun and games til someone gets hurt". To your other prediction about robots falling from the pyramid, I feel like teams that know they have even the smallest chance of falling will not go past 10 points. A fall from the 30 point bar could be fatal.

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Maybe it'd be a good idea to park a Green shirt by the practice field to keep the peace.

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Thanks for reminding me to pack our fishing net! It makes a great catcher right out of the robot. (We got it for the soccer balls I think?) Also may pack some hard hats. Our electronics desk is right next to our practice target. I've thwacked incoming frisbees with a frisbee. Household tip: use the frisbee to bang them straight down, not as a shield. That usually kills the spin.

After Nashua Week Zero, I'm wondering if there should be added field personnel to cry out "incoming!"

Has to be a strong-willed person for the practice field. If the area is big enough for multiple teams doing different things it can be chaotic but organized.

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Any team irresponsible enough to fire Frisbees in a crowded pit should be put on probation and asked to leave if they do it again. Such blatant regard for the safety of the other teams and guest should not be tolerated.

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I hope event staff will keep in mind the necessity of a place to go and shoot frisbees that isn't the practice or playing field. I agree the pit isn't the place for that, however dialing in shooters will be a never ending process for a lot of teams that can't wait 3 hours for their 5 minute shot at the practice field. Half the Orlando and KSC event used to be outside, which would be great to just go find a clear area to tweak. However the last few years we've been locked in I think to keep food and drinks out. But this year you're gonna have a problem with the tweakers. I'm thinking of the queuing area at UCF since its big and usually empty have kids in the stands and shoot them out that way??? Dunno...

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My prediction is that the natural tendency of entropy to increase will be clearly evident during most, if not all, regional competitions.
By the time teams get to Championship they will probably have figured out a way to prevent this.

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And Dean Kamen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnE0j69_gYk .

Seriously though, this is probably the year where safety is most important, and teams need to be really careful. Mandatory hard hats for refs might be something that needs to be in place. The drive teams will be behind a big wall so that shouldn't be so bad, but I would be worried about the people at field level who aren't necessarily paying attention to everything.

This. This is actually the best way to keep everyone safe. We're talking about teenagers here. The only guarantee of safety is fear of prosecution, and some of the green shirts are really scary looking.

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Poof balls don't fit in your eyes.

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I think this might be a better bet.

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FRISBEE! FRISBEE COMING THROUGH! FRISBEE! :rolleyes: ::safety::

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It's a shame that these aren't currently in stock.

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I don't see why teams wouldn't be intelligent and bring a bedsheet or something of that variety to hold up in front of their shooter when they want to test fire it in the pit. The sheet/blacket/quilt will absorb the energy and the Frisbee just drops. (I've tested this already.) Test fire all you want, just remember to be safe obviously.

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If you guys think Frisbees aren't safe, wait until next year when robots and humans are throwing javelins. :ahh:

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Lawn Dart Game?

(Link for people like me who are too young to remember them)

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Test firing in the pits is never safe and is never going to be allowed. Stop asking and stop claiming otherwise unless you want to tell me your foolproof plan for guaranteeing that a team won't miss the bedsheet, have the bedsheet come loose on shot 2 of a 4 shot volley, or some other mishap that will result in 6 oz. of hard plastic flying at headchopper height through the crowded pits.

The practice field can be safe because you can arrange things so that frisbees are flying at a solid wall with lots of open space around it and few people. Any other arrangement is asking for trouble.

Similarly, it's extremely unlikely that any event is going to arrange a second practice field for teams to practice firing frisbees on. There's already a practice field. If it's too busy, then it's your tough luck and you should have finished and tuned your robot at home. The events are for competing and the small bits of practice and maintenance necessary for competing. They aren't and will never be an optimal place for building and developing an unfinished robot because there's a competition going on. You may as well complain that the event doesn't have a designated area for setting up a waterjet table so you can make upgraded plates to fix a problem on your shooter.

As an example of how non-optimal regionals are for development, full-field shooters aren't going to be able to do any effective development or tuning on the Lone Star practice field. For safety and practicality reasons, it's being set up as two half-fields with the goals backed by a nice large concrete wall. Consequently, full-field shooters should plan on doing their tuning on Thursday during practice matches.

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This has been an interesting thread to follow. Ever since the game was revealed, I've been thinking about some of the threads here in CD that have been written over the years. The threads that consisted of game designs and suggestions, involving game elements and game pieces.

I've gone back and read a few and I haven't come across much regarding safety. Lots of ideas tossed around about how much fun it would be for the teams but not much about how to create those games with safety as a strong consideration.

This is an opportunity for people who ordinarily don't think about the aspects of safety, and its impact - to create discussions within their teams.

Edit: I'll add this here instead of creating another post.
Practice fields always seem like an afterthought. They are provided for the teams and they are manned by volunteers. In my opinion, training for the volunteers has to be involved with managing the field and allowing teams access to it to work on different aspects of their robot or the game. I also think the human player is given very little consideration on the practice field and it is important to provide an appropriate area where the game piece can be handled by the human player.

In discussing this with different people and at different events, I have been told that space is always a problem. If it is a problem, then work to find a solution. I'm not big on ignoring the value of the human player or the game piece in the human player's possession.

My final thought on the practice field: you have to be able to say no and not be afraid to be the bad guy if you are going to be a volunteer on the practice field. When I've worked with teams that included students and mentors talking with me, they have been helpful, attentive, and cooperative - even while having to wait for a long time in line for just a few minutes on the practice field that has been provided as an afterthought, more or less. That has been my experience.

There's always room for improvement.

Jane

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I agree. I can only speak for Boston as their VC but I'm going to ask our 'green shirts' (safety advisors, for those of you not in-the-know) to keep an eye on the practice field - as well as staff it with extra volunteers to make sure everyone is being responsible.

Boston's practice field is in a lucky spot - a loading dock for the arena - so we'll probably set up the goals facing out of the venue, towards the wall. Hopefully that will be enough - we do not have a full-size practice field but we also aren't in Florida, so we can't just tell kids to go outside in the middle of March. :)

Agreed. Once again, I can only speak for Boston but this is probably going to be the case for us.

+5 internet points for one of the most unintentionally hilarious FIRST videos I've seen ever. Gets me every time. (Sorry, Dean.)

The main thought behind how you/your team behaves at events as far as testing in crowded areas can be summed up in 1923's #1 shop rule: "Don't be dumb. If you're thinking about doing something, stop and ask yourself, is this a dumb idea?"

I really, really REALLY hope it doesn't come down to constant intervention by event staff. Things like "please don't test-fire your shooter in the pit" shouldn't ever have to come out of our mouths.

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I'm not as afraid of flying Frisbees as much as I am of flying debris from shooter wheels coming apart, especially in the pits.

I have seen enough videos of wheels rotating at insane speeds that they were never designed to rotate at and then contacting a hard plastic disk.

If one of these come apart in the pits it could be devistating

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My team shot Dean in the head with a Moon Rock @ the 2009 championship practice field.He aparrently drove onto the practice field on a Segway and took one right upside his head driving up to the robot.
Way to go kids!:rolleyes:

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This is from another thread..
How many teams do we think did this? This concerns me.

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Entirely too many, I fear.

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After the week 0, human player blizzard game change, its going to be difficult for FIRST to argue that they thought of every reasonable safety scenario and took precautions. Is this the only one they missed or did they miss others?

If someone tries to cross the practice in front of robot that can fire 4 disks in less than 2 seconds they might get hit 2 or 3 times.

If a robot with its shooter deck tipped 60 degrees accidentally fires a high velocity shot, they could take out a light fixture and rain glass down on the practice field.

We've already talked about the high speed spinning wheels and getting robots down from the practice tower.

I must assume FIRST does a thorough safety review of their games designs, but in this case it sure looks like there are chances for injury that are more than just remote possibilities.

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I *really* don't think this year's game has to be a lesson in game-design safety. I think its possible to do it safely (and have more fun games as a result). People need to think about safety when designing though. 5k+ rpm flywheels using materials never designed for that velocity is a recipe for problems. Don't get me wrong, go ahead and use an 8" AM Pneumatic wheel if you'd like, but run it slower, and ensure you build in some shrapnel containment shielding to prevent errant bits of shooter wheel from flying at your field staff. A typical 1/4oz automotive stick-on wheel weight will be an awful lot like a bullet if ejected from a shooter wheel at 5000rpm.

I feel like 2013's game is going to be among the most exciting to watch that I've ever participated in since 2003, and everyone seems to think 2006 is king for that as of yet. I hope we can pull it off safely so we can have more games like it.

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Am I the only one who thinks that this year we will see a robot fall from the pyramid?

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Read koko Ed's first post in this thread. First paragraph.

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From the first post:

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Like many others, I watched the Premier Night videos for dozens of teams and came away with three observations.

1) Team 1986 has built a heck of a robot
2) Just about every robot in FRC now has underglow
3) Some of these teams get an ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS amount of zip on their shots

Within hours of kickoff I said I wouldn't be surprised if FIRST instituted a maximum velocity limit in a Team Update. At this point, I am surprised that they still haven't. It is certainly possible to build a full court shooter (and practice safe testing techniques) that minimize the risk of someone losing their teeth. But I have seen many, many teams come very close to major accidents in the past with far less dangerous mechanisms.

I am glad that my wife is volunteering as a pit administrator rather than a queuer next weekend. Because it is only a matter of time before someone's (a student? volunteer? VIP? someone's young child in the bleachers?) head is split open by one of these frisbee howitzers. 6oz hard plastic discs are not foam basketballs.

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We used to think we were cool. :)

-John

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I feel slightly embarrassed for missing that.:(

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You guys stopped thinking you are cool?

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It happens to the best of us :D

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Emphasis mine. I was at the Georgia FIRST Scrimmage, and some of the speeds that the teams were shooting out at were insane. It was like they built their shooters to chuck the discs across a football field. Even for cross court shots, they velocities don't need to be that high. I sincerely hope during inspection that unsafe wheeled shooter designs are caught and made safe. If there's an extremely loud *thunk* that can be heard outside of the shop, that's not good.

Also shout out to 1986 and their amazing robot ;)

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As soon as I started reading this thread, I suspected somebody would post that video. Not one of 1519's prouder moments -- we're just glad Dean Kamen wasn't badly hurt. We really did expect the kick to head downfield, but 48's defense hindered our intended aim for downfield, instead resulting in the errant shot right into Dean's face.

Also, this is one of the times that I'm glad our team has a pair of drive coaches who switch off between matches. I honestly can't remember whether I was the drive coach for the above match, or whether my co-coach was behind the lexan for that match!

However, even with the netting at the side of the field, I think the hardness of the frisbees and the relatively smaller size of their leading edge (as compared to a soccer ball, foam basketball, or poofball) makes them a bit more of a hazard from some of the higher-velocity frisbee shooters. We've pretty much enclosed our spinning wheel, but a frisbee to the face at 15' range would pack quite a punch indeed! Care and discretion are warranted by all.

That said, a place to tune frisbee shooters (other than 1 robot at a time on a small practice field) at official events would help a lot. It wouldnt' take much at most events -- kind of like a "driving range" for teams -- one could even picture multiple teams being able to simultaneously make use of an area set up like a golf driving range.

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I just came to the realization that the que lines at FLR are st up directly behind the drivers stations along with the DJ so the Team Que, the drives teams themselves and the DJ are going to get constantly bombarded all weekend. There is now no doubt in my mind someone is going to get hurt.

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Prediction: FIRST will install netting above the goal area for at least champs. To make sure not to kill anyone. :ahh:

Edit: Being queing at HH is going to be interesting. I expect to be ducking everywhere all weekend. Also, I have a feeling that field reset will be a pain. We shall see...

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14 out of 36 teams who showed their robot during the Top25 reveal... Yes, I counted.

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Did that include the teams that dont have underglow, but have some other kind of auxiliary lighting? 772, I'm looking at you...

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I guess we could add some. :confused:

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It is non camera related LEDs on their robot as decorations.

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I've actually had a casual interest in FRC (I wasn't in FLL either) before I joined a team in 2008. I recall (can't cite the rule, that part of the game manual is lost in the FIRST website) there being a rule where the poof balls, the second most nonviolent game piece in the modern era (behind moon rocks) had a set velocity limit.

Working with strategy and design for this game, I was shocked there was no velocity limit. Not only is a full court capability in range for a lot of teams, but this game piece is as rigid, if not more rigid, than the tetras, and we are allowed to whir these pieces 10 feet high and 50+ feet across. In testing videos for both 422 and 2614, you can see the frisbees being shot from at least 10 yards a way and still audibly banging into the back wall. As someone who spends a lot of their time behind the glass or at least in the field area, I'm not thrilled. As an attendee of regionals where there is about 2 feet between the stands and the field barriers, I hope they block off some rows.

It's all fun and games until we get blood spilt on the field or in the stands by a game piece. Seriously. It would not be fun after that. FIRST would quickly become not fun.

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If FIRST hits the wrong person at the wrong time they could find themselves on the business end of a lawsuit.

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After watching kick off I honestly didn't believe were were getting a real Frisbee. And well when I opened the KOP... holy cow. Having played some ultimate, I have seen/felt what a flying Frisbee will do to one's head and it %@#$ hurts.

Last year we didn't really have a problem with anyone testing shooters in their pits at sdr however the practice field is always a mess. At our per-ship event we had some close calls of different teams on the field practice shooting and people trying to get across it. Also I believe that human players should NOT be allowed to practice any kind of throwing on the practice fields unless it is 100% devoid of robots/people (which is never). At SDR the practice field is always just a free for all, there needs to be some clear indications/no walk zones to make sure one gets hurt.

Maybe having the area around the fields be a NO GO zone for anyone outside the teams playing/crew would be a good idea. And give the VIPs/etc a viewing spots up the stands that is a lot safer then sanding near the field.

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That was the more direct definition of things becoming "not fun".

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Well, more so because the ensuing restrictions on what we can and can't do becomes so restrictive as to make things boring than the lawsuit itself not being fun.

Really, just net the alliance station walls too. Problem solved. You dont need ceiling access to the venue, just build the alliance walls so that the end uprights have a 10+ft vertical extension to hold a net across.

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You're right, there was a velocity limit in 2006, but I can't remember exactly what it was. IIRC, it was phrased as both a speed (XX distance/time) and a real world spot checking value (Shot at X trajectory should not go further than Y reference point), which made it pretty useful.

That being said, with the way that game is designed, having a set maximum velocity would change things immensely in terms of game play (long range shooting becomes much more difficult) but would make things much, much safer.

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It didn't limit the range of the shot explicitly, only the muzzle velocity (12 meters/second). That implicitly created a max range, but it wasn't explicitly stated. That max range did have strategic impact, namely that you couldn't shoot full court.

e; It seems there was a mention of range in the rule, bad memory. Though it would have been the equivalent to a "blue box" portion of the rules these days.

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I predict with a 3rd level climbing robot with non-automated climbing, things will be interesting.

A less seasoned driver is focusing on the climb. A hard impact on the wall makes them jump, overreact, etc. and they lose focus on the climb at a critical step and the robot takes a dive.

That leads to my prediction of the possibility of fire. Saw 2-3 motors smoke out in a epic match last year so the fire risk is my mind.

And I've taken a Frisbee to the head down. They hurt but as long as you don't catch one in the throat within the first 10 feet or so, I don't think we'll see decapitations.

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In a ranking of "lethalness" of FRC game pieces since 2003: 1st to 2008 trackballs and 2013 frisbees, 3rd to 2010 soccer balls, 4th to 2005 tetras, 5th to 2006 Poof balls and 2012 basketballs... taking into consideration the speeds produced by robots of that year during official matches...

I recall being hit several times by a bouncing/falling/flying trackball and being knocked aside or given severe whiplash from a hit to the head. That said, a nearly point-blank shot from our own shooter (or especially some of these ones capable of greater-than-full-court shots) could be exceptionally dangerous... Regardless, I consider either of these game pieces (or a fast-moving soccer ball or a falling tetra) to be far more harmful than the 2006 poof balls... which were the only ones that ever had a muzzle velocity cap!

I guess my point being that I think the GDC intentionally avoided muzzle velocity rules for these other more dangerous projectiles because of the situations in 2006.

I whole-heartedly agree... the potential for legal ramifications and/or injuries (particularly to people new to FIRST) is a very significant concern. It seems though, with the netting already in place it will be extremely uncommon for a frisbee from a robot to leave the field at high velocity...

Between the nets and field boundary, the lowest areas are the >6' walls above the feed stations. The barage of human-thrown "hammers" during the final 30 seconds resulted in very-fast moving discs coming through these gaps in large quantities (and being very dangerous!), with others clearing the high goals or nets. However, the robots are almost exclusively shooting discs with horizontal-style throws... these slow down more quickly... and slow faster the steeper they're shot! This means that for shots to clear even these lowest points, they must be shot fairly steeply (and so slowing quickly) or are quite a distance from their fastest point. I expect robots to be accidentally shooting discs out of the field; however, I wouldn't expect these to present as significant a threat as some have been saying...

That said, shooting in the practice field or pits will be as dangerous as the teams shooting make it... Everyone in these areas needs to be very safe about if/how they shoot and bystanders should be aware.

I guess in summary, I don't think FIRST should apply a muzzle velocity requirement... partially to avoid any potential double-standards and partially because the in-match scenarious aren't the most dangerous ones. It seems to me that with the safety measures already in place the risks around the official field won't be excessive. Teams must be warned firmly, though, to be very careful with any shooting in the practice field (or pits... although it seems like requiring immediate arrest of shots would be sufficient for the pits).

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At the "Week Zero Scrimmage" in Nashua, NH with the official FIRST field, there were nets set up at either end of the field, in addition to the side nets.

I can't remember exactly where these were, but I believe they were placed just behind the back of the driver station / human player area. In other words, frisbees would be prevented from going out into the stands. I can't recall just how high they were, but I think they were the same height as the ones at the sides of the field. With that additional netting, I think FIRST has done a pretty good job of containing frisbees.

I don't remember if close-range shooters (thus steep angles) making high velocity shots that missed the top goal were going over the top of the net or not. I'm sure the people working field reset would remember, though!

In all honesty, I think the only big problem with frisbees escaping from the field were the human player throws in the last 30 seconds (the "blizzard") which has been largely addressed with the rule update making such throws valid only with colored discs, limiting the quantity of such throws and thus encouraging better accuracy from human players, rather than having them simply try to get rid of as many as 30-50 left over frisbees in 30 seconds. (At the Week Zero tournament, there were often many, many frisbees left over, since the robots were still frequently incomplete or only partly functional.)

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But safety glasses protect one thing and one thing only... your eyes.

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you don't have the 2006 rules saved on your computer? ;)

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I'm still not sure this rule was as much for safety as it was for game mechanics. With out this rule 2006 would have been a very different game. Full court shooters in 2006 would have completely broken the game.

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I have a serious question.
Concerning the Gray 8" Pneumatic wheels.

I keep seeing post after post after post about, "You shouldn't be using those...they are "unsafe." While I grasp the concept that spinning those dinky gray wheels at 4000+rpm could compromise their integrity. However, To make a full-court shot from our shooter with two wheels it takes less than 2500rpm and you're already goingto be overshooting the goal by a bit....so why on earth are you sayying someone is spinning their shooter at 4000+ rpm. I realize teams are using those bag motors that spin at 14000rpm....but seriously is this actually happening...?
I'd also like to see the concrete data on the tolerances of the wheel ...now I honestly don't know where that information is...neither have I searched for it.

In either case...Our team did take a precaution of mounting a bulletproof lexan/polycarbonate box around our shooter wheels. So if something did go horribly wrong...no one is going to have anything to worry about.


I'd also like to point out that the plaction wheels fronmandymark have an even greater change of having the non-slip (orange) material fly off...I know it does because the first shooter I tested had it break off in less than an hour.

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Frisbees can hurt quite a bit, and I'm glad to hear about the netting behind the drivers stations. Keep safe, everyone!

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I predict everyone is getting too worked up about this. Yeah, robots are going to fall off the pyramid. But if this permanently damages your robot, that's too bad, should've built a tougher bot. I'm sure at some point, someone will get hit with a Frisbee, but unless it is at point blank range, they will walk away from it. Seems like a few people need to go sit behind the dugout at a major league baseball game. ;-)

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Since I've seen unconscious spectators removed on stretchers from baseball and hockey games, you're not helping my comfort level. I'll feel bad if ANY teams' robot falls from their pyramid, but that's their choice to try to climb. It's a choice to be a spectator, too, but a frisbee to the head causes a different kind of damage.

GKC's queuing areas are right where frisbees coming over the drivers' stations will be landing...it's not just spectators. I've been to other regionals with similar layouts; those side nets aren't going to protect everyone.

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I can vouch for the fact that the frisbees hurt and not matter how safe we are you can get hit if you are not aware they are coming at you. The team was running tests and underestimated the power of the shooter and one got me in the hand. My finger was bruised and swollen for a few days. It wasn't pretty and it only grazed me. I can only imagine what ones of these guys could do to the head of some random person spectating who loses focus for a moment. I hope everyone is safe this year.

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Color me relieved...

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Well I'm glad that you can dismiss the concern. But I don't care to have my head split open and attending eight events tend to increase my odds of that happening. So I think I will continue to harbor my concerns thank you.

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Really not sure what worries me more. Getting hit by a 1/4oz wheel weight ejected from a shooter wheel at thousands of rpm, or getting hit by a frisbee. Certainly the frisbee will be more common, but those little wheel weights will be like bullets if they leave your shooter.

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I thought FIRST mandated that all moving parts had to be shielded in the robot.

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Would not be surprised to see First implement a shooter wheel safety check in the queue to spot unsafe wheel balancing....

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Psssh, don't tell me that seeing an endless cycle of poof balls being lobbed from opposite corners to the goals wouldn't have been stupidly entertaining. Plus there could have been all sort of "don't cross the streams" jokes.

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See this is where I get really confused that teams don't do what we did...
It's obvious that the Innertube's air nozzle is why the wheel spins off balance.
So we took ours out and filled the tire with pool noodle foam. No more fuss whatsoever. It's probably 100x safer as well.

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Sounds like a simple and safe solution...

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Except for the part where pool noodle foam doesn't get you the adjustability of changing the air pressure in the tire to adjust how it grips the DISCs.

Also, maybe I'm just not envisioning it correctly, but I dont see how you prevent the tire from pancaking at speed too. I spun up an AM pneumatic 1:1 on a CIM, with no air in the tire, and the tire visibly pancakes a substantial amount.

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Only relevant rule I can find is this one:

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If that is true our robot is not rule-abiding. I could not find any rule that states this....and we have our shooter wheels on top of the robot very much so exposed.

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Our tires don't pancake at all.
Of course I can't prove this without the robot, but The foam works wonders. We adjust the compression by change how much of the tire actually contacts the Frisbee itself.

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With air or foam in the tire, the AM will not pancake nearly as much as with no air. In our testing, we found that being able to adjust tire pressure and Frisbee compression (e.g. moving the wheel in and out) was beneficial. For that reason, we decided not to use foam.

Our shooter is mostly encased in 3/8" aluminum and the only exposed part of the wheel is covered by Lexan. So if it decides to grenade, the blast should be contained. ::safety::

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I used to be a FIRST Robotics mentor...then I took a Frisbee to the knee.

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You sir have made my season!

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That should be a button.

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This is so much better than all those stupid "do you even lift (for 30)" memes!

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Based on the safety concerns i'm wearing my masks (I have 2 of these)