Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

I'm a realist....I know certain combinations are much more likely to dominate Champs if given the chance, I'm just not willing to concede it yet.

I'd love to help heal it. :cool:

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Agreed 100%, nothing is ever for certain or even close to being for certain, despite what the ChiefDelphi pundits might have to say. I just wished you had chosen an example that evoked fewer bad memories for us. ;)

And yes, it's about time we end up on the same time of the coin at champs. Playing each other 4 out of the last 6 years in the elims is a bit much!

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Same here.
We were never good enough to be picked 1 or 2, never ended up 1 or 2 and always had to face 1 or 2 year in and year out.
We are like the team that gets stuck 6-8.
For once I hope that we get on an alliance from the 7 disc auto club. I think we are good enough to be a wing man for any of those teams.:cool:

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

I still remember sitting in the stands at CMP 2010 watching the nearly undefeated season come off the rails in disbelief.

I can understand why its still fresh.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

My point of reference is 1114's 2008 machine which dominated Overdrive. I agree that they, along with very few others, have distinguished themselves this year. I have not seen anybody put as much distance between themselves and the rest of the field as I felt 1114 did in 2008.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

I would argue that Simbot Quatchi (2010) was far more dominant than Simbot SS (2008), despite Simbot SS's CMP Win. Simbot Quatchi lost 3 matches in the whole season (and tied 2). Two of the 3 losses were Einstein Finals, and the third was Q100 in Curie, which they played 6v0 to ensure their #1 seed, by holding their alliance score to 0. Quatchi was undefeated prior to Championships.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

But 2010 they were not the most dominant robot out of everyone; 2008, however, I think most in the community would agree they were the best robot/team.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Respectfully disagree. The 1114/469/2041 alliance's average match score through Curie elims + Einstein Semi's was 19.1. The 67/177/294 alliance's average match score through Newton Elims and Einstein Semi's (note: this alliance played 2 more matches than the Curie alliance) was 15.7 (or very near to the pair of 16's they won with). The eventual champion alliance went to three in their eliminations twice, once at the hands of 2056/1625/3138 and once at the hands of 16/1718/343.

The 1114/469/2041 alliance had the bad luck lightning strike at the worst possible time, with 2041 getting stuck in the goal.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Using their alliance to make the case for 1114's dominance cant work; that makes the case more for 469 because they did most of the scoring. 1114 probably could have won by themselves in 2008.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

If W/L/T is your sole metric, maybe (just maybe) I can agree with you. But you give the perfect example of why that metric doesn't matter in 2010. The 6v0. Not every opponent 1114 faced during qualifications in 2010 even attempted to beat them.
If you factor in their performance relative to their peers, it's not even close. 1114 was heads, shoulder, forearms, and elbows above everyone else in 2008. It had some kinks to work out at the beginning of the season, but even then it was still clearly the best robot on the field. Once they got everything together, it was unstoppable. They would outscore entire elimination alliances with their hybrid mode alone. That robot was easily the most dominant machine of the 3v3 era.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Exactly. 1114 from 2008, to me, is the only competitior for 71 from 2002 as most dominant robot.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

True. I'd forgotten how well 6v0 played into Quatchi's undefeated-ness. Point conceded.

Maybe I'm just still irked by one of SS's only losses coming in the only match 1075 played on the same side of the glass as 1114 in 2008, and thus not remembering its utter dominance quite as well as I should.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Arguably not even the best machine from 71. Their 2001 and 1997 efforts are definitely on par with it, and I would rank ahead of 1114 in 2008. Also would rank 47 in 2000 and 60 in 2002 ahead of 1114 in 2008. 25 in 2006 also is in the picture.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

Whenever these discussions come up I always think that the most "overlooked" great robot was 67 in 2009. Maybe they were not massively better than other robots, but they DOMINATED their districts and events. They had an unfathomable record of 79-7-1 that season. In a game that was designed for no one to dominate they were basically unbeatable.

Re: Climbing and dumping not winning?
 

In CT, the winning alliance had team 95 as their second pick. Team 95 used the entire match to climb and dump. The number 4 alliance was led by team 236 who shot 3 in the high goal in auto and climbed/dumped. They were close to beating the number 1 alliance, and they would have won if they had not got two technical fouls. A climber and dumper that is consistent and fast can be a component of a winning alliance, but there aren't many who can climb every time.