Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Vote yes

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Sorry for pulling a strawman. my friends and i use that one too much, we will accuse each other positions until we sort it out. I guess it lends itself to making jokes at each other expense instead of actually making an point. Well enough of the red herring about red herrings.

Well I see your position a bit more clearly. To avoid putting more words in your mouth are you saying your reserving your right to yell to prevent a sudden accident or more of a general alert of the proximity of the robot?

I think Sanddrag intent in his original post to eliminate a need of using "Robot" as a siren or alarm. The need to alert someone immediately prevent an accident is not what this petition is about. there is no need for the continual reminders of robot presence. Shouting something to avoid a fall or collision is not what i am trying to address.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'd like to go on record as a vote in favor of "Robot".

You know those beepers on the back of trucks when they back up? They're a safety item. They're to get attention. They're required by law and they save lives.

Sure, yelling "Robot" isn't saving lives, but the purpose of it is to make people aware that a big thing is coming through and they have to move. Most of those people's attention is focused elsewhere when the 'bot comes by.

Absolutely, you don't need to be 'rude' or 'arrogant' to yell robot, and you don't need to be excessively loud either. But in some pits, whether you're late or not, you'll need to clear the crowd to move a drive team through the pits.

And I've heard students reminesce about tournaments and that was one of the most fun things they remembered.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Robot traffic should stop for people, no one should 'have to' move out of the way to avoid injury. As many have stated, having one or two people infront of the robot is plenty to get people to step aside.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The only reason my team does this is because we don't want to hit someone with our robot. If you're moving pretty quickly, there is a safety hazard present that you may hit a parent who doesn't know or a small kids who's running around. My point is, you don't know what could happen in the pits and, as you've already pointed out, they are loud and abnoxious. This means no one will automatically hear your robot coming and move out of the way.

So to recap my opinions:
1. It is necessary for safety
2. It's not arrogant, it's looking out for someone else
3. I agree, but do you have a better solution?
4. If keeping the pits safe is rude, yes
5. This point is just a repeat of 3
6. The bystanders are the ones who need it the most because they don't know that robots come through.
7. The "general public" that comes into a robotics competition should expect to see weird things at our events
8. The other teams yell to further the message to anyone in the way
9. With repitition, it becomes second nature to people that cooperate, this is not bad
10. How does it create a safety hazard? It's not like every time we yell "robot" someone's ears explode. If it does anything bad, it simply annoys people like you
11 No, it doesn't. Having done it for 4 years, I don't expect people to move out of the way, it's only announcing that a safety hazard is coming through the aisle.
12. I dont understand your wording here

I would like to work with everyone here to find a better way to announce the robot, even in the case that you're in a hurry. If I offended anyone in this I am sorry, I did not mean to. These are simply my opinions and that of my team.

I'll sign once I'm sure no one will be hurt by our robot coming through the aisle.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In the OP you responded to the questions in:

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It would make sense to yell if you had little control of the robot, but you can stop the robot. If you have to tell someone very quickly or else they'll be in danger, then stop the cart. Then you don't have to yell.

We've been late for matches, rushing to the field, whatever, and we haven't had to shout robot in two years. On the off chance you absolutely have to, one time, no one is going to judge you. That's not what's going on.

I don't buy this "necessary" argument one bit. It's only necessary if you feel entitled to rush your robot through the pits as fast as you can go.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

How on earth, is a parent who's never been to a competition or a small child running around(who shouldn't be in the first place) supposed to know what to do when they hear someone yell "ROBOT"?

If you aren't in a hurry, tap people on their shoulders and politely ask them to move. If you are in a hurry, how about yelling "Robot coming through, excuse us!" or "Watch out, robot coming through!"


I highly doubt you go running through the shop yelling "ROBOT" so why should you do it at a competition?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

1. Then you're doing safety incorrectly. Plenty of teams, not to mention industries, manage their transportation safely without yelling. If you're in danger of hitting a small kid running around--if you're creating a potentially unsafe situation at all, you need to change your behavior, not your vocalizations. It is our job to avoid others. If there's no way though, ask them to move gently and directly. Ask because you need to get through, not because it's unsafe--it shouldn't be in any way unsafe to begin with.
2. Yes, say "excuse me".
6. The bystanders don't need to be yelled at to inform them of this. It's effectively crying wolf.
8. This is entirely unnecessary. If someone is actually in your way, ask them to move. Don't relay the message to areas that are not or not yet in your path. Again, people who are actually hampering movement are less likely to respond.
10. The louder we make it, the harder it is to hear actual emergencies. It is distracting, and while I'm glad your answer to 11 is true for you, it enforces a sense of entitlement for many, which enhances the danger.
"Please excuse our robot." If someone is not within that standard listening distance, they are not in your way. If a standard movement they could make could cause them injury on your robot, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Is barging through a crowded place, while yelling* at people to get out of your way, a good example of professional behavior? Of graciousness?

If you don't know, ask your grandmother.

------
*Robot! Or any word.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

If yelling anything is part of safety practice, then we're not doing enough.

Safety Rule T6: In order to maintain safe robot transportation during an event, all teams must employ the follow safety procedures:
1. A ROBOT moving through the pit must be accompanied by emergency lights flashing yellow at all corners of the ROBOT or cart that transports the robot.
2. An alarm of no less than 100db must blare a continuous "siren-like" warning to alert people that there is a ROBOT in the vicinity that may be moving on a cart.
3. The ROBOT or cart must be surrounded by soft fluffy pillows or cushions of no less than 5" depth (tastefully upholstered) from a height of 6" to 60" from the ground.
4. A moving robot must be proceeded by a team member wearing an "international orange" safety vest who must carry an incense burner not unlike a thurible...

Seriously, of course you can yell "Look out!" or "Stop!" or "Don't move!" or even "Robot behind you!" whenever there might be an impending collision. The problem is that so many are yelling when it is NOT necessary that it completely removes any impact that such appropriate warnings might have. It's like yelling "FIRE!!!" "FIRE!!!" over and over again to warn people of the possibility of a fire.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

And the beepers are NEVER on when the truck is moving forwards. Imagine for a few minutes that every beeper on every truck starts up whenever it's in a drive gear, reverse, forwards, whatever.

How fast do you think you'd start ignoring them?


Right. The point of the beepers is to inform people that a truck is moving in reverse and that the driver probably can't see behind him very well because the truck body is blocking his view, thus they NEED to know so they can get out of the way. When the same truck is in forwards, the driver can see what's in front of him, and the driver has responsibility to avoid anything in the way.


The shouts of robot are: The truck using its beeper when in a drive gear, accompanied by every car on the road in some cases. VERY annoying, and if used too much, VERY ignored. That's why we want to reduce the use as much as possible. Can it be effective? Yes--in the right situation. Are there better ways? YES. Like having one of your 4-person drive team going in front of the robot to clear a path.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

What about putting a horn on the robot cart and hoping it gets people out of the way?

Yeah. I think I'll skip that [at least for now]. Playing with the horn on our 2012 bot was only fun the first time ;)

I think there needs to be some hotword that should be used. What about tobar?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It's a well known fact that in some parts of the world such as China, you gain right of way while driving by honking more than the other driver.




// Well actually only half lying. There are definitely people there who think they can gain right of way by honking more. :rolleyes:

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I believe that the best compromise is this:

"Excuse us, robot coming through!" This saying alongside 1 or 2 robot escorts should be enough to clear enough space for traveling through. Encouraging students to NOT say ANYTHING creates more hazards when moving robots.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

1: A team pushing a robot should not be yelling anything. The risk to others is at the front of the robot, where the robot will be in a moment, not where the robot has already been. A vanguard or two should be walking ahead of the robot, calmly making sure people know that a robot is coming through.

2: Someone backing out of a pit without looking isn't likely to be magically protected from tripping backwards over something by a shout of ROBOT!, especially if he wasn't paying enough attention to his environment to hear a preceding warning, but I agree that it makes sense to call attention to the imminent collision.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but first of all, at WPI this weekend, I was absolutely appalled to see teams rushing through the pits, yelling robot. Maybe my memory over exaggerated this but the speed that people were going, robot in tow, was just astounding.

Also, as for the Safety Award, 157 got runner-up for Safety at WPI and we do not yell robot on our team when escorting. Maybe that was the particular judges at WPI this past weekend, but food for thought.
(Also, I spoke to the judges and I know that not yelling robot was not the reason we received runner-up.)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I believe that "ROBOT" should only be yelled if teams are not responding to team members kindly asking them to get out of the way. "ROBOT" has turned into a sort of white noise at this point..
Of course, teams should still notify all people around them that a robot is in transit. I'm just not sure if this is the way to do it. The Safety Manual states:
Transporting:
o Make sure the robot is stable on the cart before transporting.
o Keep the cart under control at all times, especially when removing or placing the
robot.
o Do not include music on your robot cart.
o Use patience and control when moving the robot, especially in crowded areas. Do not run.
o Ensure that the cart will not roll away or pose a hazard, especially upon robot
removal. Use a chock block if necessary.
o Use the gate opening when entering/exiting the playing field. Climbing over the railing is prohibited.

There is nothing in the transportation rules that demand teams to yell "ROBOT" in the pits. There is, however, a rule which states that teams may not play music on their carts. Just something to think about.

SAFETY FIRST

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

No kidding; people were shouting simply for the sake of shouting it at the NC regional. I even overheard a few mentors encouraging their students to shout louder, when the path was completely clear and there was no reason to alert anyone of anything.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In contrast, one of the biggest problems I saw at the NC Regional was the lack of people guiding their robots or even saying something polite about "robot coming through." I was nearly clipped several times each day by teams that had no one out front and no one saying anything. I even saw several teams almost bulldoze their own members as they entered/exited their pit without saying anything.

Between the two extremes of yelling for no reason and not saying anything, I have to say I prefer yelling. Annoying, somewhat. But not nearly as annoying as almost being run over time after time after time.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I confronted the Safety Advisors about this at the NC Regional but was shrugged off. This kind of behavior was then explicitly reinforced during the awards ceremony. Frustrating.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Everyone who doesn't like to hear "ROBOT! COMING THROUGH!" is invited to the Israeli regional next year, that practice thankfully didn't make it over the pond to us! (yet! :eek: )

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Or come to Boilermaker this weekend. If you shout robot here you will be quickly corrected :)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Is there any actual realistic endgame to this thread? Or are we talking to talk (like in other threads)? You can't MAKE people stop doing something regardless how hard you try, ESPECIALLY if people feel justified that they're doing it in the name of safety. Good luck trying to convince them otherwise; you're fighting a nearly impossible uphill battle.
At first I found this thread interesting, then humorous. Now it's just sad. There are some people that are gunna keep yelling robot and that's the way of things.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I think ROBOT!!!!!!! should really only be used as a last resort. If tapping people on the shoulder, or kindly telling them, "Excuse me, there's a robot coming through," with a person or two in front of the main robot entourage, you might just have to in order to avoid running them over.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

That sounds good. If anyone is reading my comment. .... Flub...flub blub flub

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You can't use correlation to imply causation, but since the publishing of this thread, I have heard "ROBOT!" shouted way less. This idea has informed Chief Delphi posters and lurkers of the downsides of shouting ROBOT! - they may not have even considered it before. This thread has informed teams on alternate, safe ways to clear a path through the pits. And even now, people are posting and changing their minds on this issue. Just because you've gotten the message doesn't mean everyone has.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is a silly thread.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I also think the yelling of ROBOT is a tradition. No one gets hurt by yelling, and yelling ROBOT prevents people from running into the robot, getting hurt, etc. I think it's all part of the game process, and it's all in good fun.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Agreed! It's tradition, and no matter what anyone believes, it works.

I disagree with just yelling ROBOT, but yelling "ROBOT COMING THROUGH" is much more effective.

As the "District model" takes precedence and slowly becomes the norm, the pits become smaller and smaller and more people (or even the same amount of people as Regionals) make a more congested area for robot transportation.

Rudely yelling ROBOT should be discouraged, but yelling something to grab the attention of all those darn people in the way as robots are trying to queue up, is necessary!

I for one will NOT be signing this silly petition.

But then again, I'm old school.
I have learned that (even at the team event years ago at the Altlanta Aquarium) yelling ROBOT makes robotics folks move out of the way even when not at the competition site.
We've all been trained well in that regard. :yikes: :p

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Next time I am stuck in the pits trying to help a team.
I think I will yell "HUMAN COMING THROUGH" and see if anyone moves :rolleyes:.

Usually I just tap someone on the shoulder. They turn. Look up and I say 'excuse me' and they move.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

On the other hand... as pits were emptying from IE, someone pushing a bagged robot rolled up to a group of people, with room to go around them, and yelled "ROBOT" two or three times before they all moved out of the way.


Myself and another ref who both saw this looked at each other and went "You know, if this had happened during the event, that might have been a G15. He had room to go around."

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Shouting robot to get people's attention is fine. Asking them to move in crowded pits is fine. Simply shouting robot and assuming that gives you the right of way is not. I honestly can't count the number of times I've been run down or seen others run down by teams pushing robots who just didn't have the sense to slow down and wait for things to clear in front of them once they've alerted people to their presence. It's rude, dangerous, and disrespectful of everyone else around you.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In every other situation in life, pedestrians have the right of way. This is no different. If a janitor with a cart full of cleaning supplies needed to get past me in a crowded area, and decided to yell "CLEANING SUPPLIES" while rushing at me, I would stop his cart with my hand and tell him that he needed to slow down and calm down. If he told me that he had a cleaning competition that he was supposed to be at 1 minute ago, and that's why he was rushing, I would tell him that this gives him absolutely no right to be disrespectful to others.

Additionally, shouting ROBOT is not at all something I want when I am showing off the pits at my event to spectators. I brought my young cousins into the pit once, and they were huddled next to their mom as they usually do when travelling. However, in the pits they were all visibly frightened because 3-4 teams rudely rushed past yelling "ROBOT." They huddled even closer to their mom after that, and one of them stayed frightened for much of the rest of the day.

Is that really what we want? If I were those kids, I would leave the event thinking that robots are scary, and that all students in FIRST are big mean jerkheads who don't care at all for the well being of others. If little kids think this, what do you think corporate sponsors think when touring the pits?

Will there be people in your way as you travel with your robot? Yes.
Will they often be not paying attention to their surroundings? Yes.
Is it ever appropriate to shout "ROBOT" to get people out of your way? No.

If you think the answer to my last question should be different, then I encourage you to tell a janitor sometime to yell while moving their supplies past people. If they give you a funny look in response, it's probably a bad idea.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

We should start a petition to end this thread unless someone has something new to bring to the table. Its like a time capsule from 2013

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

But then what can I tell all the new pit people to do while they flail and assist in touching the robot while its being pushed?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

While I do agree people yelling "Robot!" is a bit rude I find people just milling around the field entrance and blocking robots even more rude (which was a constant problem in Dallas). As my trainie Zoe pointed out "People have no sense of awareness of what's going on around them. They are either mesmerized by what's going on the field, chatting away with their friends or staring at their phone. What they're not doing is paying attention to what's going on around them. These are people who if they become engineers will be working in industrial area when heavy equipment is prevalent and they will not be yelling ROBOT when you are in your own world in their way. They're just gonna go right through you.
This thread needs more accountability towards the general public: start paying attention or stay out of the pits and in the stands if you can't be bothered to do so.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Not to divert this thread but why do people need to stand in the middle of the lanes (or entrance)to talk to another person? Move over to the side and talk.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled thread.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

After a year or two of robot shouting being discouraged I tend to agree. Perhaps instead of just discouraging robot shouting, signs be put up and hourly announcements are made informing spectators and teams to try not to stand in the center of aisles. I know our drive team the last few years and myself when I was still a student on the team would do the tap on shoulder method but especially for large crowds, it's very slow and sometimes they flat out ignore you forcing you to shout(by this I mean raise voice a lot so they can actually hear). With more notice to spectators and teams, robot shouting and the tap shoulder and excuse me method is no longer needed as often.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Super energetic and over enthusiastic Safety judges at FIM Howell competition reminded me the word reprimand! One of the team bringing robot back from field had called excuse me twice and tried to draw a gentleman's attention by tapping on the shoulder. A safety judge who saw schooled the team and asked to yell robot. One of the team member said it was against the rule, which lead to a short lecture on common sense.

In Michigan, volunteers do a good job, especially where robots going in and out cross path, they stop robots returning to pit and let robots go to field.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Signs don't work.
Far too many FIRST-aholics suffer from Selective Illiteracy: They can't read signs that have subject matter they don't care about.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I think I developed it from the 10,000th "wear your safety glasses" sign taped to a restroom wall.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I say blame the safety award for this illness (disease?).

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You gotta have something to aim for if your robot is overweight due to the welded on decorations.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Adding to the litter in this thread...

Not one person was heard shouting "robot" at the inaugural Indianapolis District event this year.

And no one was run over by a robot, got in the way of other teams, or was injured by a robot cart.

It was wonderful.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

That's what I noticed too. Very quiet in the pits. Other teams could learn from this :D

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Personally, I yell "Dead Horse!" whenever I'm dragging one through the shopping mall. People are very appreciative of this, especially when the horse is starting to putrefy.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Carrying an overweight robot doesn't sound very safe.

Also shout out to safety advisors at an unnamed week 1 regional I attend that told teams to yell robot and at one point told our drive team "if your robot is moving your mouth should be!"

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Am I misunderstanding your use of the phrase "shout out", or are you actually approving those safety advisors' advice? It sounds like they didn't get the memo from FRC HQ about not shouting "Robot!"

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

No one at GSCR (as far as I could tell) had sounds on their carts, which is what FRC HQ referenced as being OK to replace the whole yelling thing. And some teams weren't really leading their robots or saying "robot coming through" or anything of the sort. I'd rather have people clearly and loudly (i.e. not screaming for no reason) "Robot!" than have carts clipping my heels (which happened more than once at the event).

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In retrospect my comment was so sarcastic it circled around to seeming genuine. Whoops.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Well of course not, it was at Lawrence North. And I've never heard anyone yelling "Robot" at IRI.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, but I do believe that the majority of the teams at this past weekend's Indianapolis District event had never attended IRI.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I think he was suggesting that anyone who shouted the dreaded word was summarily "disappeared" by its hallowed halls or something.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I mean sure, I yell robot. And by yell robot I mean "Excuse me, robot coming through." And by yell I mean say politely. And yes, it would be nice to end this yelling of ROBOT

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'm sure Carolyn is right about the number of teams at the Indianapolis District that have not previously been to IRI (as competitors).

However, I think Gary's point is still valid.

I am from Augusta, Georgia. My hometown includes a golf course that hosts a famous tournament every year called The Masters. To me, Lawrence North High School plays a similar role in FRC to the one played by the Augusta National Golf Club in that sport. The venue is very nice, but the quality and tone of the event is set mainly by the people who work at it -- the event planners, the hosts, and most especially the volunteers.

So, if there are many volunteers who come both to the Indianapolis District and to IRI, then the expectations for quality and tone of the two events should be similar also -- even if the level of competition is not.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I have not been to a competition yet so I have not experienced the pleasure of "ROBOT".

Two thoughts:
Any warehouse I've been in that used heavy equipment usually only had sound for backing up (forklifts and motorized pallet jacks). Some were all the time and I can understand a preference for that direction.
Never on a construction site have I heard anyone yell "WHEELBARROW"

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The difference in construction site and a FIRST tournament site is, at the former, construction workers are busy building or carrying stuff. Where as in the later, pits are buzzing with activity, drive teams and robots are hurrying to field, others hurrying back to pit to prep for next match which could be 2 matches away. Then the halls and pits are full of mentors & students who are not on or near the field, and visitors who are standing and appreciating everything that is going on. These two places are not even close for comparison!

We will be carrying cowbell, the cone shaped brass one, its legal!

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Cowbell > "ROBOT!"
:D

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I apologize for bumping this thread and probably starting another circular discussion, but here goes.

This weekend was my first gig at my new job - representing United Therapeutics as a sponsor of teams. I traveled to the Orlando Regional with some coworkers (and my boss!) to see our sponsored teams play, and to give our FL employees a chance to see FIRST up close so they could get connected with the program.

We were walking through the pit, excited to meet one of our "Team UniTher" teams up close, and a volunteer yelled robot, right in our ears. Okay, one bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch, right?

It was an absolute epidemic. Every time someone's robot was on a cart I could hear students screaming. Not even in the "pardon me, robot coming through!" way. These students were outright rude, and absolutely not at all self-aware about how unnecessary it was. I've (unfortunately) become pretty immune to the senseless yelling, but my coworkers were certainly not.

It was a really quick way of alienating potential volunteers, mentors, and sponsors. I came in with enthusiastic people, and they left the pit with a bad taste in their mouth. It's one thing to have a safe aisleway to move your robot, but entirely another to be so obnoxious that you alienate spectators who, minutes earlier, were jumping out of their seats to go see the robots up close.

I'm not trying to knock this one regional in particular, or its teams, because we had a fantastic time overall - but it was the first time I've really noticed how off-putting it is to those who don't just blindly accept safety theater as safety culture.

Again, stop yelling robot. A simple "Excuse me, heads up, robot coming through" in an indoor voice will suffice. Your robot is not more important than the humans in the room.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The yelling of "ROBOT" should properly cease in the name of lower decible range hearing safety, and each Robot Cart for the 2015 FIRST FRC season should be equipped w/ a mild sound system playing a nice fairly quiet melody of "Ice Cream Truck Music"...As everyone who has ever purchased a sweet cool treat from one of those sweet musical trucks knows....Everyone pays attention to Ice Cream Trucks, most always look toward the sweet sound of the melody, or at least look for where that "sweet sweets music" is coming from anyway.

Just imagine whole venue competition pit areas filled w/ nothing but the soft sounds of drilling, sawing, some mild hammering...and lots of sweet pleasant Ice Cream Truck Melodies! (Of course the really slick thing is to have an Ice Cooler onboard too, and actually sell the sweet treats as an additional fundraising outlet, on the way to & from the field too! With both venue permission, and a valid local Health Dept. Permit of course).:D

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This.

I was at the Orlando Regional as well, volunteering as an inspector. I could hear robots in the far opposite side of the pits "coming through".

There was one instance where I was going back to the pit with a team to do their inspection that really struck me. The Orlando pits were super crowded with narrow aisles and lots of people standing around pit entrances. The team I was following was yelling ROBOT, and when they hit a crowd they couldn't move (the people were faced away from them) they continued to yell ROBOT at the back of their heads until someone noticed and turned around. I couldn't believe it.

For the most part, if you tap one person on the shoulder and say, "Excuse me, robot coming through" they tend to get the rest of their party out of the way quickly as well. They're not trying to be in your way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In Kokomo this weekend I twice gently corrected two people who inappropriately shouted ROBOT. One was in his team's pit as their robot departed; another was actually sitting up on a set of bleachers against the wall. I told each of them that people shouldn't be warning others of an oncoming robot unless they are walking in front of that robot, because otherwise they are taking attention away from where it needs to be.

A few people on one team did consistently call out ROBOT in a loud-but-not-yelling voice as their robot was in transit, which was mildly annoying. However, they were one of the few teams that consistently had a vanguard clearing the way for their cart, and it didn't seem to be a contagious yell, so I didn't make an effort to find the source and ask them to take it down another notch.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Things were rather quiet in Los Angeles this year. I think I only heard two teams say "Robot!" all weekend, and it was at a medium volume in a manner which was not at all disruptive or rude. It was really nice to see this prior issue resolved at this event.

I suppose at this point in time I should move on to other worthwhile efforts such as starting a petition to end the playing of the chicken dance song....

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I have to agree, especially when we have the general public coming in to view and see what these events are.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Utah had a couple of teams that wouldn't shut up. We had a great time overall, and yes, it's good to let people know there's a robot behind them by saying "excuse me", but after 11 years it is getting really old. A new one this year: students from one team twice nearly punched me in the nose with a small bag of "safety materials" while shouting "In the Spirit of Safety!"

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It's so silly it just might work...

Might try this over the summer.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

If we really do want people to stop yelling "ROBOT," there needs to be a system in place to keep people out of the walkways and have their conversations elsewhere. It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot." I agree yelling "ROBOT" can be rude, however, the real problem needs to be addressed.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Its not that difficult actually. Just always have someone out front like 2-3ft from the cart loudly, but not necessarily yelling, saying "excuse us" or "look out".

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

With all due respect, there is a better system. You talk about it being difficult to have to walk around your cart, could you instead have someone else on your team walking in front of the cart doing just that?

I'm not going to say that there isn't over-congestion in the pits, because there definitely is sometimes. But the solution should isn't being rude to them until they decide to leave.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is a cause I can get behind!

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You have four people on the drive team that are a part of the robot's transport out to the queue - one's pushing the cart, another holding the controls. That leaves you two, and you can use at least one of them to help clear the pathway.

Think of it this way:

.....................Person 1
....................... / \
..................[__Robot_]
...Person 2? [__Cart__ ] Person 3?
................. [ _______ ]
....................Person 4

Person 4 is pushing the cart. Person 2/3 can maintain space around the sides of the cart (if they're not holding something cumbersome like the control board), and can fall back behind the cart when there's not much room.

Person 1, in front, can be saying things (in a medium-strength-indoor-voice) like "Excuse us, robot coming through!" "Heads up!", when it's necessary. That is not rude.

What is rude is the teams who feel they have to scream ROBOT! at the top of their lungs every five feet because 'it's the way to be safe', even when aisleways are clear. As Alan said, it takes attention away from somewhere else, where there may actually be an issue.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is plausible in the ideal case where other teams aren't crowded around their own pits. At Champs and most Regionals I've been to, the all-sides entourage works most of the time. Yet even shouting robot doesn't work when people in the pits aren't paying attention because they're focused on their own pit.

In Pittsburgh, even with team 48 shouting 'robot' for everyone, and me saying excuse me while leading the cart, there were still people with their backs to the aisle who would jump out into the aisle without looking. We got some nasty looks, as if to say "why aren't you shouting robot?". In my head my gut reaction was 'Natural Selection suggests we shouldn't blindly sprint in the pits' (bad, I know...) but I after a minute I simply understood why many teams feel compelled to shout it. The kid who jumped tripped on the cart and caught himself. It could have been much more catastrophic had he been a second later, jumping on the robot and hurting himself and/or causing the robot to fall off the other side of the cart. We could fault someone for not paying attention to the 'robot' shouting, or fault 48 for causing people to tune out the 'robot' shouting, or fault me for saying excuse me rather than shouting it, or ... whatever.

Point is, I don't know if there's a catch-all for this.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At the Palmetto Regional, I know I personally got told by the green shirts that "When the robots moving, your mouth should be moving." And was asked to keep yelling robot. Even though it seems extremely unnecessary to me, I was asked to do so.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Interesting. We've been at competitions this year and last year where teams were asked to not shout robot. Personally I think screaming robot is very rude in addition to being an ineffective method of clearing an aisle.

For the most part there are three types people in an FRC aisle: you, FRCers in a rush to go from point A to point B, and visitors who have no idea whats going on. The FRCers hear you scream robot, know that its there, are partially annoyed you are screaming, and will most likely continue moving on the same path because we all have somewhere to be. Visitors hear that, are startled, and have no clue whats going on because they are already overwhelmed.

Be polite and send one person in front of the cart and ask everyone to politely move in a calm manner even if you are late for the match. Its not hard to do and reflects volumes on the character of your team.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The solution to this "difficult" problem is obvious:

Too many drive teams seem to treat the robot as a mother duck and trail along behind it. Instead, think of it as a valuable artifact and give it an honor guard.

If there is a problem with people blindly stepping out into the path of a robot after the vanguard has passed, I offer a possible mitigation strategy. Have the vanguard carry a banner or a flag or other device, with brightly colored streamers trailing it and connected to the front corners of the cart. That will help keep the way clear and call people's attention to exactly the right place.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I didn't think it was excessive at GTR Central. People said "Robot" in a slightly louder than normal voice, we all figured it out. There was no outright screaming, not at least by my definition of it. I thought it was kind of fun.

My pet peeve? People who were SPRINTING down the pit aisles trying to get from point A to point B. I have a real issue with that given the number of collision possibilities with robots, with sharp objects sticking out of robots, with cabinets filled with heavy tools, with people actively operating power tools, etc.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Funny story. I just got back from the North Bay regional (great weekend by the way!) At the end of the day a few teams went to a local restaurant for dinner. So, there were a lot of us standing in the lobby area, chatting, waiting to be seated, and servers were madly scrambling to configure the tables to seat everyone.

At one point two servers were trying to move a table through the crowd. They were saying "Excuse me" but having a hard time moving through the group. A few of us called out "Robot!" and suddenly there was a clear path through :D

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At Ventura last week we got by with just a simple "Excuse us", usually it takes a second but people will move out of the without even looking as to what it is that's trying to get past them because it's kind of second nature.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

And this is what safety advisors are suggesting this year. :)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I hate to revive this old thread but it is still a problem.
I have seen and heard people shouting "ROBOT" when there is NO ONE in front of them. It's usually the person pushing the robot cart so they are behind the robot and they don't take into consideration that they are yelling into people's ears.
I have even heard them shouting from outside of the pits.
Since we have a banner this year, why doesn't the person holding the banner lead the robot caravan and ask politely for people to move?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

My team has tried to set an example by gently calling out (not YELLING), "excuse me please, robot coming through, excuse me please" as we slowly work our way through crowded pit aisles.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

That's what we did. I would hold the standard up in front and say excuse me. Worked pretty well.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I sign.

Besides, many teams yell robot and however manage to hit people.

Better be cautious and silently arrive to your pits.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Ah, if it isn't my favorite thread. Again.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

And if that doesn't work, you can whack 'm with it? ;)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At Arizona North this last weekend, I don't think I heard anyone yell robot once. So, there is hope!

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

We only yell "robot" when the mentors built it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

We were yelling robot at first during week 1, but were actually asked to stop by other teams :D seems like teams are communally deciding this is a bad tradition

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I had a team yell robot at my back. The first time I admit that I did not respond to it. Probably because I am so immune from hearing it all day and did not think it was directed at me. The second time they screamed ROBOT!!. I turned around and politely told them screaming robot at the back of my head does not indicate which direction you would like me to move. Which is completely true. I could have easily heard that scream and moved right into the path of the robot just as easily as I could have moved out of the way again not knowing fully if it was directed at me or not. I guess I should state that this happened around the practice field area, not in the aisle of the pits. The polite thing to do is have someone out in front of the robot saying excuse us robot coming on your right/left. If they don't hear you lightly touching their arm or back and say it again.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Comparison between places I've competed:

Michigan:

When I started in 2007, yelling "ROBOT" was common. Now, not so much. There is plenty of space in the aisles between the pits for drive teams to move their robots, and usually a simple "excuse us" is enough to get people out of the way.

PNW:

Navigating the pits at PNW district events can be crazy sometimes. At any point in time during a competition, there seem to be quite a few team members standing outside many teams' pits. If you are trying to queue for a match quickly, there will be plenty of people in the way. Yelling "ROBOT" is extremely common, to the point of being expected.

If I say something like "excuse me" as I'm trying to get through a crowd, the crowd's members will actually start yelling "ROBOT" for me.

I do think it's super weird.

Worlds:

There is usually ample space between the pits, and there are marked out lanes for robot traffic. Yelling "ROBOT" is unnecessary and rare.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Wouldn't it be more helpful to keep the pit area less cluttered with unnecessary team members standing around? I'm also not sure how crying "ROBOT" will help in such a crowded situation. How are people going to know which way to move unless someone is walking in front of the robot to help clear a path, and why wouldn't that path-clearing be just as effective with targeted requests to make room instead of a general broadcast that a robot is somewhere nearby?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I vote YES!!! I would always yell excuse me, coming through, because yelling robot just didn't sit right with me. I got yelled at by judges for saying excuse me..........

Saying "Robot" has been something I have done throughout my time in FRC. And this year, already, I have had to pull/push my team's cart around and people refused to get out of the way. If anything, in my opinion, experienced members need to enlighten incoming FIRST members that "Robot" generally means to clear a path for robots.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Saying excuse me works just as well, and for those in the pits who aren't familiar with the subtle nuances of a competition it doesn't actually help.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

No, "Excuse me" generally means to clear a path. "ROBOT" generally means whoever is screaming it at you is a bit of a jerk.

Update: I don't recall hearing any safety judges telling teams to do it last year.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.

So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Previous years rules don't always roll over. If you can cite somewhere in the manual where it says you should yell robot then by all means follow the rules.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I have never seen this as a rule in any FRC manual.

It's important to be able to quickly and easily clear a path for large objects moving through a crowd. That's why things like airport carts (the ones with a couple of benches for elderly or disabled people to get a lift to their gate) have both buzzers and lights. But those drivers still do their best not to run people over!

The biggest problem I have with people yelling "ROBOT" while moving through the pits is many of them seem to think it gives them the right to just plow through. I have been hit by multiple robot carts at just about every event I've attended, and scolded quite a few teams about it.

Be polite, be cognizant of the fact that people won't just jump out of your way, and above all be patient!