Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It is not a requirement. And the Safety Award is not based on it. You can stop yelling it.

Heard it a few times, usually from teams that I figure didn't know better. If it wasn't right next to me, I didn't change direction or speed. (And most of the ones right next to me were "excuse us, robot moving" or something like that.)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Yelling "Robot" or something similar was definitely needed at our events this year. While we always said "Excuse us" in addition, usually it was parents talking to teams who weren't aware and needed us to get their attention. If the first time didn't work, we'd tap their shoulder and kindly ask them to make way for us. Our robot needed constant repair at both our districts so time was certainly of the essence... if we weren't in such a rush I'm sure we would have been a bit more patient.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

So I can yell "ROBOT!" when the autonomous code goes awry and the robot goes shooting across the aisle into our neighbor's pit, right?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

My team didn't yell robot, we said excuse me every once in awhile but our pit was right on the end, next to the ques so we didn't travel that far. Due to the way our robot sits on our cart, you can't see in front of you so we usually have one to two people walking along the side of the robot to lead where you are going and help move people out of the way, kinda escort the robot.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Last year, at World's, I had a team coming out of the arena yelling ROBOT with NO ONE in front of them for at least 50 feet.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Usually, when we move through the pits with our robot, we say "excuse us, robot coming through," or something similar. Incorporating both politeness and robotness.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At GTCR, people didn't shout it loud enough, and people were being jostled around so much that safety tokens were being taken away if your team didn't yell "ROBOT!" as you transported things. A very angry safety inspector came around to most pits to warn teams.
I have to agree, though. Unless a team is supposed to be on in a minute, this can be done much more quietly while still being safe.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

My TL:DR on this because this is truly one dead horse is.
As soon as you start valuing the robot more then you value the welfare of those around it then you need to really sit and evaluate the position you are in.
Having a robot doesn't mean you can't be polite

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At the Greater DC district, all robot traffic ended up routed through one narrow hallway, and it was often clogged. I can't imagine what we would have done if no one had shouted "Robot!," or at least shouted something in a loud enough voice to alert you that they were trying to pass. If only we all had eyes in the back of our heads...

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Stuff like this is ridiculous.

I'm the Senior VC for Indiana. I talked to the Safety Adviser at the Tippy District and told him that we pride ourselves on being polite in Indiana and treating people with respect. We expect our teams to put people before robots, every single time. I asked him that if he hears anyone yelling "Robot" to teach them a more polite and safer approach: having PEOPLE lead the way, tap people on shoulders, saying "excuse me," etc.

Our Safety Adviser was very receptive to this. I'll be requesting him back at our Indiana events.

Event Coordinators and Volunteer Coordinators absolutely should have similar talks with their Safety Advisers before the event starts.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Safety Advisors are not always properly aligned with actual safety practices. I have seen them insist that students wear gloves when drilling. I have seen them physically pull students away from their work and shout in their faces. If what they are telling you does not seem reasonable, you should acknowledge that you heard it and get another opinion from somebody with more experience.

There was no such official requirement, and FIRST already explicitly discouraged it more than a year ago.

http://archive.usfirst.org/roboticsp...Manual-Release

Alternatively, we could have people in the front of the robot to calmly clear a path for it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

...Who inevitably have to shout to get the mobs of people who are not looking at them to know that they're there, unless you want to tap every single person on the shoulder (having enough people in front of the robot to do this would probably make the problem worse).

Having a person in front of the robot is wise, but it doesn't make the problem magically go away.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You can get loud enough to be heard without screaming in someone's face. There is a difference between using a loud indoor voice, and being obnoxious. "Excuse me, robot coming through, we're on our way to a match, please move out of the way, Heads up" can be done with a voice that is heard over the 'mobs of people', without being rude.

What a lot of this thread takes issue with is the mindless screaming of ROBOT!!!! without concern for what's around the team.

Like this:
That's just not alright.

The person in front of your cart is responsible for 'parting the waters' in a safe, logical, and polite way. If that means they have to tap some people on the shoulder, then they do it. Robots and people can coexist in the pits, pit aisles, walkways, you name it - as long as people are mindful of how their behavior actually affects others.

I posted something last year about how appalling it was for newcomers from my company to be screamed at by teams, so I won't do it again... but this isn't how we keep people from 'outside the tent'.

This is another one of those :deadhorse: topics, like paper airplanes, where some people think it's okay to be disrespectful just because 'it's the culture we already have'. Just because it's what some people have always done, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Just a warning, I know that this practice will be frowned upon at Hampton Roads this weekend. You will be asked to stop and have someone walk ahead of the robot asking people politely to move.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

With all due respect, I think this thread does a lousy job of communicating that.

The title of the thread is "petition to end the shouting of ROBOT." Anything said in a voice loud enough to be heard at many competitions can be fairly considered "shouting," and I don't think there's any argument to be made that using the word "robot" is, per se, an inappropriate way of doing it (if you wish to use other words to supplement it for the sake of manners, that's fine, but I don't think that's such a pressing issue that it deserves its own thread).

Of course, "mindless screaming" of anything is neither useful nor appropriate. But a lot of shouts of "Robot!" are most certainly not that, and pointing that out is a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the title of the thread.

I won't actually be there, but I hope for the sake of all the teams involved that, if this is the case, there is nothing comparable to the chokepoint of that hallway at Greater DC.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You have a fair point there!

So here's my question:
What does "ROBOT!" accomplish that "Pardon me, Robot coming through, Heads up!" at similar volume doesn't?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Nothing, but it's fewer syllables and naively projecting my own standards onto other people I don't see why anyone would care much one way or the other.

I openly admit that I don't understand a lot of social ritual, though, so it's entirely possible that I'm way out of the ordinary in not caring. But from my (admittedly biased) sampling of other people at competition, I've never met anyone else who feels otherwise.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The better question is the opposite:

What does "Pardon me, Robot coming through on your left, Heads up!" accomplish that "ROBOT!" at similar volume doesn't?

The answer is a lot.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

GPR was generally good about keeping the pits under control. We never really had to scream robot just a polite "excuse us" or people were generally aware of robots approaching them.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Situationally, sure. Often one call of "Robot!" isn't enough to actually get people's attention, and a full sentence like that is a lot less awkward/downright annoying than chorusing "Robot! Robot! Robot!" would be.

But it's often the case that a single "Robot!" effectively gets people to look up, notice you, and clear out of the way. I observed this several times at DC, and didn't see anyone gravely harmed or offput by the lack of manners. So I have a hard time seeing the need to not do it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

A single "Robot!" shouted by the person pushing the cart is coming from the wrong place. In order to warn the ones in front of the cart it has to be very loud. It gets the attention of a lot of people. The majority of those people are not in the way. Such an action adds a lot more noise than it does safety.

The person doing the warning should be in front of the robot, not behind it. With that arrangement, the volume required to alert the people who need to be alerted should not need to rise to the level of a shout. Anyone in the way who doesn't react to a loudly spoken "excuse us, robot coming through, please watch out" is going to be close enough for the vanguard to touch the person on the shoulder or arm and get their attention without shouting.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

^

Shouting robot loudly is going to get the attention of more people than it needs to. Possibly taking their attention away from something that might have been more important than a robot that isn't near them.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The problem is that the shouting of "Robot!" has pass from a safety awareness imperative ("excuse me, coming through, you need to move out of the way") to part of FRC culture ("When someone says 'Robot', everybody else should yell 'Robot' too! As loud as you can! Whee, this is fun!!!")

If your cart is rolling down the aisle and someone from your team is walking in front of it, gently shouting "Robot! Robot!", this is useful information to work with. I can hear the voice and determine where it's coming from and how close I am to it. If I hear that the voice is very close to me, I surmise that the robot is also very close to me and I move out of the way. This is how it is supposed to work.

Instead, here's what actually happens: Your cart is rolling down the aisle. Everyone in your team, including the people behind the cart, is yelling "Robot!" People in the pits to your left and right hear you say "Robot!" and they too yell "Robot!" Any spectator nearby joins the chorus because, hey, it's fun and I think it's what I'm supposed to do.

So I hear a loud chorus and echoes of "Robot! Robot! Robot!" coming from all different directions. I hear this multiple times throughout the day as every team passes through. Is the robot close to me? Am I in the way? I can't even tell. 99% of the time, it's probably not, therefore I don't bother moving out the way, or even looking up.

It's like those car alarms you hear go off in the parking lot. Does anyone go up to look? Does anyone call the police? No, because you become desensitized to it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Quoted for truth, I don't recall hearing it once either. Maybe it was the venue size, hopefully it was the people :rolleyes:

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is how my team handles it. We have one person, a drive team member, who is known for yelling out "robot". He does it at what I would call a reasonable volume, and only when there is a significant blockage in front of us where multiple people need to move at once. He is usually behind the cart, but we do have people in front just in case people don't move so we don't run into them.

Personally I feel that if someone were to come up and ask us to stop, we would, but even this past weekend no one seemed to mind one bit, and would generally move to the side and go back to their business, so I don't see much harm.

Everybody around screaming at the top of their lungs over and over again all day is another story entirely.