Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It seems like this sort of a thread is becoming an annual thing for me. So, here we go for 2013...

This week, 696 is here at the Inland Empire regional having a wonderful time at this new event, but there's one thing that really grinds my gears. First, let me say that I have the utmost respect for our safety inspectors. These are all qualified folks who are trying to look out for our best interests, but at this event, I take serious issue with one of the mandated practices they have imposed on all competing teams.

The safety inspectors are requiring all teams to loudly yell "ROBOT!" any time they are moving their robot within the pit area and to or from the field. There are several issues with the practice of yelling "ROBOT!":

1. It's not necessary
2. It's arrogant
3. It's obnoxious
4. It's rude
5. It creates excessive noise
6. It startles bystanders
7. It turns off the general public
8. It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason
9. With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning
10. It does little to make anyone safer in any way, and may even create a hazard
11. It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way.
12. It's safety theater

Aside from my issues with teams yelling "ROBOT!", it's not right for any FIRST volunteer event or official to require my students to verbally say something they are strongly opposed to saying. At least three times already today, my team was called out for not yelling "ROBOT!" when they are moving the robot. (Mind you, we received the #1 Pit Safety recognition at Long Beach in 2012 and 2013, without yelling of any sort).

Some of you may ask, "Well how can you move a robot safely without yelling 'ROBOT!' ?" It's simple. We're never in a rush, we look where we're going, and if for some reason we do encounter some impediment to our travel (which happens only rarely), we politely and in a reasonable volume say "excuse me" followed by a "thanks."

So, who is ready to end this absurd practice of yelling "ROBOT!" ?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

:raises hand:

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I always thought that you could yell robot only if it was preceded by Excuse Me/Us. I think the only time yelling ROBOT! by itself is ok is if you are in need to get to a match immediately; otherwise, be polite about it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

We have a megaphone that we say, "Exuse us, robot coming through." or "Please hold up, robot coming through."

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

? Is this a new requirement?

Last year at Chesapeake I spoke to the green shirts and asked them to talk to teams on their rounds and request they put a person in front of their robot during movement through the pits, to tap people on the shoulder, etc. No shouting of robot. I think it worked well.

Last weekend in Boston I was wearing a blue shirt. While in the pits during interviews, I would politely grab someone on the team coming through and ask teams to NOT yell this. They always apologized.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=106255

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Quite surprising that this is being mandated at IE. I feel I heard much less of it this year at Long Beach (a positive trend), will see if that holds up at other events. I've certainly instructed my own team to never do this.

It's not so much the act of yelling ROBOT but the other behaviors that inevitably accompany it, as OP has clearly pointed out.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

There was a team at a regional this year that had 2 people walk in front of the robot holding caution tape between them with blinking lights alternating yelling "ROBOT IN TRANSIT!" every 2 seconds.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

You guys wouldn't make it through a regional in Israel. Working in the pit area is like standing in a heavy metal concert for 3 days straight :P

For all it's worth, I support this suggestion

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

My respnose when I hear someone yell "ROBOT!!" is "Yes it is a robot"


*raises hand to support NOT yelling ROBOT*

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

And yet some of our students still do it. We gotta throw this into the behavior contract or something. Is this in the team handbook?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Signed.

I caused a bit of a kerfuffle recently when I attempted to get my team to refrain from participating in this nonsense.

It helps nobody and undermines any credibility the safety advisors might have.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I absolutely hate it when people yell "ROBOT!"

Do you walk in front of cars and yell "PEDESTRIAN!"? Do you walk in front of a train and yell "COMMUTER!"?

Whatever happened to "Excuse me!" or "Pardon me!"? :confused:

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I think it's more like a bus driving through Times Square on NYE with a megaphone blaring "BUS!", but I get your point. ;)

I mostly agree, the yelling without niceties attached should stop. I don't mind if a safety captain wants to escort (you know, one of the kids in the orange vest and hard hat) us through the pits, but there's a polite way and a rude way of doing that.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

:Raises hand in support:

The pits are plenty loud. Any extra noise just doesn't help the problem

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I personally find the yelling of ROBOT as tradition. its not hurting anyone, and it gets the job done faster than quietly asking everyone to move. If you tried to get through the pits of GSR by quietly asking every single person to move, it would take 10 minutes to get through. Its just one of those things that makes a competition what it is.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

100% in support, yelling robot is obnoxious. We've found that just telling people,
"Excuse us" in an indoor voice works, and usually people are more polite to you. We had no problem at our last regional doing this, and we got from point A>B as fast as if we were yelling "ROBOT".

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Similar to what someone above posted, our team has sometimes taken to sarcastically yelling "human" as we transport the robot to and from matches XD

My question for you is how do you fix the issue? As a member of the drive-team as both a student and now coach I can tell you it can be incredibly difficult making it through the mass of people milling about in front of pits. Some of these people can be incredibly clueless as to what is going on around them and sometimes it takes a loud shout to snap them out of their daydream or pull them out of the text they are sending. While yelling "robot" does get annoying and and sometimes comes across as rude, it gets the job done and gets the robot to the match on time.

I also support this. It's easy to excited shouting "robot" but it's just as easy to say "excuse me" as you move through the pit with your robot.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I strongly disagree with this statement. I have been in the most packed concert mosh pits and "excuse me" still works. You don't have to say "excuse me" quietly, often you have yell it at a regional. When its noisy (like queuing for a match), I think most people expect you to be yelling. If someone wont move because you said "excuse me," they are not going to moving if you say "robot." If an indoor voice works, why not use an indoor voice?

Excessive car horn honking in New York got banned for the same reasons. Certainly it was not a tradition that added to the New York atmosphere.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I hate "ROBOT!"

I fell over laughing at 2 kids at the end of the day Saturday at Wisconsin. One was riding on the cart, paddling with a broom while the other pushed, yelling "ROWBOAT!"

People on my team also sometimes yell HUMAN at each other in jest when trying to get into our pit to do something :p

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Warning: Some uses of this document may also be arrogant and rude. Think before you act.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Pfft, I tried to get my team to stop yelling "robot" only to be told back that "The pits are a loud place anyways. If you're looking for quiet, the pits aren't somewhere for you to be." Guess the team more or less needs to find a new Captain and Driver... Excuse me usually worked for me transporting the robot, and it helped that at Greater Kansas City there was plenty of space to maneuver a cart.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is FAR from a tradition. I don't ever remember teams yelling ROBOT! in 2005 and earlier when I was in high school and we had no issues moving our robot to/from the pits. This practice seemed to (wrongly) evolve while I was away from FIRST from 2006-2009.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I agree, and it has never really bothered me.
The problem is when people yell it TOO loud, TOO frequently.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Signed.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

*signed*

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

And plenty of seating, and plenty of dancing room, and plenty of pancakes. KC has a great venue and one of the FRC community's finest volunteer corps. I also recall seeing plenty of Championship calibre teams compete at KC in recent seasons. :)

Some other FRC event venues are much tighter on space, and queue crossings can become dangerous, requiring special attention to traffic flow timing in some spots. [Queuing leads, please jump in here.] However, even in those cases, yelling "ROBOT!" generally does more harm than good, IMHO.

I support sanddrag's petition.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I sign the petition. It is just rude.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Very topical.
From last month: "NYC ends 30 year experiment with "Don't Honk" signs"

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'm not really against hearing the shout of "ROBOT", because I know that robots usually have to be moved frequently and urgently and it signals my need to get out of the way.
The pits can become very noisy and crowded and it becomes hard to hear quiet students trying to make their way through the pit. Shouting "Excuse me", although polite and sometimes works, is not very explicit (are they calling to ask me a question? Get out of the way?).

Maybe it's the golfer in me, but I know when I hear "FORE!" yelled on a course, I put my head down and turn by back to the sound. It becomes instinctual. If I heard "Excuse me, ball coming towards you!" it would take longer to process.
Hearing "Heads Up" is even worse!


The same way with "ROBOT!", its a cue for me to get out of the way. Otherwise, I need to determine what I'm being queried for.

I don't like when it's abused (ie people shouting ROBOT when no robot is coming through), but I respect the sense of urgency when urgency exists, and I've made the announcement before.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This is one of those things that grinds my gears, too. The person in front of the robot in our team says robot using their 'inside voice' directly next to the person that is in our way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Yeah like this:
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-2245763/

Glad I live in So Cal, we have obnoxious drivers but no one uses their horns around here.

The ban is not a solution for New York nor would a ban help in FIRST. I certainly would not want to curb ones freedom of speech which is a heart of the above article. Certainly I would not want to deny my right to say certain behavior is obnoxious. Going back to sand drag's original post, mandating people to yell robot is just as bad.

Is honking a lot making the world safer, no. Could it be used to communicate displeasure at another driver, yes (so 1st amendment?). For yelling "robot", its over use does not make things safer, as people ignore honking, so are people going to ignore "robot". A few cases I noticed yelling "robot" is used to express displeasure of crowding a pit lane.

I could see "robot" working if used for rare circumstances (like a team distracted and blocking during a team photo) but not a the frequency rate I have observed.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

*raises hand in support of petition*

I should point out though that many times when students yell "ROBOT" or "ROBOT COMING THROUGH" it's because they are going by a pit that has an unusual number of people standing in the front. As a student at the Philly Regional, I don't remember doing it much, but I remember having to do it a few times when I was going by a pit that had 20 people around it. Tapping everyone's shoulder and saying "excuse me" just wasn't gonna cut it.

GP goes both ways. Yelling "ROBOT" is annoying, rude, and unnecessary. But so is having too many people in your pit, and not allowing the team to get by.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Can't teams just try a little harder to give yourselves adequate time to queue for matches? Maybe have a drive team member or coach walk ten paces ahead and ask people politely to step out of the way? I understand that there are going to be moments that you're going to be in a rush, and if that's the case feel free to speak up. But if you're not in the next match or two, you don't have to rush to the field and there is absolutely no need to shout anything.

But if your team is always late for their next match, and just barely making it on the field, then you've got a time management problem you need to deal with. Yelling ROBOT!! a thousand times over isn't going to do anything to fix it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Agreed with all of the above. We're not part of the "ROBOT!" crowd. Really we should petition for a bicycle bell to be included in the KOP and maybe a reference to what it's for in the manual :D

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I accidentally the verb.


Also, at busy regionals, the only thing that works is yelling "robot". Quite simply, tapping people on the shoulder and saying "excuse me" doesn't work.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Consider this petition signed.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

ROBOT!!!!

*rams robot into your ankles*

WATCH OUT!! ROBOT!!!

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

“Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it” Chinese Proverb

Sorry, got to disagree with you. We had a 64 team regional last year doing just that. The safety advisors got the word out.

Again, the key is to have someone at the front of the bot as you move through the pits.

But I'm repeating myself. I will re-post this excellence advice from Brandon Holley: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=35

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Yep. Signed.

I just find it plain annoying to have "ROBOT!" shouted everywhere all the time. Not only is it obnoxious but it just gets old after hearing it 100 times in the pits. An "Excuse me! Watch out!" Im perfectly fine with, but just yelling the word "Robot!".... come on guys. Were all smart people, we can do a little better I think.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'm in. I was at L.A. on Saturday, and while it wasn't being yelled (per se), it was being said.

My usual response? Seeing as I was usually standing where there was plenty of room to maneuver around me, I just stood where I was. If someone had asked me to move politely, I most certainly would have, especially if the area was crowded.

I've said this before, but if the safety people are practically ordering teams to do this, do it as loud as possible, as close to their ears as reasonably possible, at every excuse, and nowhere else. They'll get the idea of how annoying it can be really fast. Bonus for then offering them hearing protection, BTW.


(There was also an air horn in the L.A. Regional stands, which was rather annoying and is banned by the Administrative Manual--but at least the user used it quietly and at appropriate times.)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

At the events in Michigan I attended, they were almost requiring us to yell robot, which definitely is a change from the past.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

My friend and me raise our hands in agreement :)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

*signed*

This analogy is far from the situation in the pits. If it was I imagine you wouldn't continue to react this way to "FORE!"

I also want to re-iterate the sending 1-2 members *in front* of the bot to help part the crowd is usually all that's necessary.

I also think in terms of making real change with this, then the focus should be on everyone in the pits *not* moving robots being aware and politely helping part the crowds.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

No, just no. I am saying this the most respectfully that I can but it is loud at this competition, and we can't simply be quiet (at STL for example). Yelling "excuse me!" may be seen as rude to certain people and yelling robot appears as it has been included in the FIRST culture. sorry to be the odd one out but it doesn't hurt anyone saying that... Maybe they shouldn't be down in the pits anyway because all they are being is a liability. Once the pits aren't congested with a lot, I mean A LOT of people then it would be easier to say excuse me to that smaller crowd. </rant>

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I feel like at the larger regionals it's sometimes necessary. Sometimes two students will walk in front of the cart and ask, but if they just can't hear, we resort to Robot coming through! However, I've never heard anyone on our team abuse it unless it was a jest in the stands, in which case it was clearly joking. I mean, sometimes I feel like it's--necessary. I don't know, but at 64 team regionals, there are a LOT of people in the lanes not just because they have too many people in the pits but just from the sheer amount of teams there.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I'll gladly add my name to the list.

My biggest objection to the practice of yelling "ROBOT" is that it is so often done by someone who isn't where the robot is. Twice last year I was talking with people in their team's pit when suddenly they yelled "ROBOT!" in my face. My immediate reaction to that sort of thing is to jump backwards out of their way. If the robot had actually been nearby, I'd probably have collided with it. The first time, the robot had already safely passed, and the person shouting was echoing someone trailing it. The second time, the robot wasn't even in the same pit row as the person who startled me. I was more prepared for it after that and didn't jump again, but still the call of "ROBOT!" by a person not actually with the robot actively takes attention away from the moving robot itself.

My second-biggest objection to it is that even when it's done by someone accompanying the robot, it's usually done by someone pushing the robot. The alarm is being sounded from behind, where there is no longer a need to warn anyone. It is so much more effective to have a vanguard walking a few meters ahead to clear a path.

It seems that the common practice is to treat the robot like a mother duck and have the rest of the drive team trail after it. That's fine for the people using the robot to make room for them to walk, but it's rude to everyone else along the way.



For those who argue that saying "excuse me" to the crowd doesn't work, you're missing the point. You don't broadcast it to "the crowd". You say it to the specific people who are in the way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Here is why I enjoy the yelling of robot
-Creative
-Spirited
- If done correctly parts a sea of bystanders in one shout

The reasons I don't see why this is an issue
-The pit is a loud place you should be suspecting louder than a shout "robot"
- It is a loud vocal warning sign of precious cargo going through

all in all yelling "robot" has come as a tradition for my teams drive team. We are creative with how we word it, we are always polite and we part seas of bystanders.
I propose the alternative route of placing signs that say. "In case of robot shout clear path way". Also if you are complaining about the noise well why not complain about the guy next to you ripping plexi-glass with a circular saw or the gal across the isle beating on a piece of metal with a hammer. The jist is if you don't loud noises why not wear recommended ear protection

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Reading with interest and general approval, I submit that the phrase used should be "excuse, us, please." And directed to individuals seems like it would be the best tactic. Please put people before the robot, both in the procession and downstream of the path. I've got enough trouble with bumper rules already. Let's not risk their requirement on our carts!::safety::

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This post contains numerous logical fallacies that have already been enumerated in this thread.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Signed.

An alternate approach could be setting up a 30 inch wide strip in the middle of the aisles for movement only - as in, if you are not going somewhere get out of the aisle.

There's already a rule about wearing safety glasses, adding an aisle seems reasonable.

Making the aisles one-way for robots and the other way for people would also be good. If robot traffic comes from only one direction and people are facing it (and wrong way robot draggers called on it) traffic should move along.

Or perhaps we can start yelling HUMAN!

Dave S.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

That would make life easier for everyone. I like it!

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Totally agreed.

At Inland Empire we were also asked to shout "Robot". And we still don't.... "Excuse mes" and "thanks" work great. And usually the way is clear enough.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Today, I saw a few teams loudly yell Robot! to the general crowd then proceed to nearly mow down pedestrians with it. One team even placed their hands on members of another and pushed them out of the way. And this was on a return trip to the pits!
It's the sense of entitlement to immediate robot right of way that is the core of the issue here, compounded by the yelling.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The culture of yelling robot came about the same time teams started actively pursuing the safety award.

It's unnecessary and highly annoying.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Consider me signed too! When I started robotics in 2004 no one yelled robot, maybe every once in awhile with a large group but you never heard it. My senior year in 2007 is when I heard teams starting to use it. It was new and kind of got on peoples nerves but we just let it happen. Now a days I know for we I hear it yelled so often I kind of just tune it out. I agree with what everyone else has said that it is not needed and asking politely, with someone in front of the car saying it, to move is the way to go.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I don't get why there's a safety award. I think that the other rewards for being safe (such as finger/limb retention) should be sufficient motivators.

Safety is not a competition.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Not to be "that guy" or anything, but I do believe you defined the concept of an aisle. They're there to provide a clear pathway to where you want to go.


As far as the whole yelling "robot" thing goes, I pretty much told everyone on our team to not do it. It just contributes to the overall noise and chaos, and with 4 other people from every direction, it causes unnecessary confusion. "Excuse me" and "Pardon me" have been around for generations, and they have shown to be quite effective. A slight tap on the shoulder and some manners go a long way, we don't want to scare away people from FIRST. Being polite to a total stranger can go a long way, and wouldn't it be neat to overhear a conversation between event sponsors leaving the building that went something like, "Wow, with how busy these students are and how stressful competition is, they are really polite."

Another thing, at the regional I attended, late Thursday afternoon the "robot crossing guards" began to develop. It consisted of a group of 3 or 4 students on each side of a door way (one that could have easily accommodated 2 robots and foot traffic). These students had reflective vests and light batons and proceeded in an attempt to direct traffic. They would only let certain people through at a time, robots had the right of way, and they were consistently stopping traffic from one direction to allow the other to go through. This created a bottleneck and we we almost missed a match because they wouldn't let us through. While this works great in theory, it doesn't work in practice. And honestly, I was surprised that they weren't asked to cease this practice by event volunteers.

I'll sign the petition, but I don't think we need a rule against it, some just need a reminder of what gracious professionalism is.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

The non-yelling method works, and it reduces the odds you upset or injure a guest in the pits. Think about the cub scouts and brownie troops following the student ambassadors around like ducklings, the proud grandparents who might not be terribly quick on their feet anymore, the random elected officials, and the school administrators someone is trying to convince to allow a new team to form at their school. Think about the mentor in the wheelchair that you're about to run down because you can't see them from behind your robot and cart, and consider the team members with sports injuries that are trying to get to their pits on crutches. They've all got every right to be there, and we are expected to be demonstrating gracious professionalism toward them.

And having brought up gracious professionalism, it's time for the grandma test. If your hypothetical grandmother was visiting the competition, and came to the pits to get a close look at your work, how would she feel if she got driven out of the aisle by screaming students half a dozen times? How would she react if she saw you doing that to someone else? Mine would have been appalled and not terribly happy with me. Consequently, I will not be yelling ROBOT and I will continue to encourage my students to use gentle path-clearing methods.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I cannot believe I am actually reading a thread dedicated to this. This is by far one of the most ridiculous proposals I have ever heard, and to top that off, I can't believe that so many people are in favor of it!

Maybe it's just a Michigan thing, but the pits seem to be kind of a hang out area for almost 50% of the teams here in my area, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get from point A to point B in a timely matter without this practice. Heck, I have difficulty navigating the pits as an individual!

But lets go over and examine the proposed reasons for the heck of it:
1) It's not necessary - To be determined.
2) It's arrogant - This is a competition, isn't it? Although, I'd use the words "confident" or "certain" before "arrogant".
3) It's obnoxious - Is yelling "fire" or "rape" or "I surrender" obnoxious? It get's the job done, which is what its supposed to do.
4) It's rude - not really. it is THE MOST efficient way to tell all people within ear's range that there is a robot headed their way and to get out of the way.
5) It creates excessive noise. - Music in the grand stands is excessive noise. Pit announcements are sometimes excessive noise. Yelling robot is useful noise.
6) It startles bystanders - maybe if the bystanders are elementary school children who've never been to a robotics competition before.
7) It turns off the general public - how? EVERY group of people that has visited my team in the pits, when hearing "robot", immediately knows how to respond. I have NEVER heard a visitor comment negatively toward this practice.
8) It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason - this statement assumes "for no apparent reason", which has yet to be proven. And if useful, this chain reaction is a good thing.
9) With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning - no it doesn't. If I yell robot, then get out of the way; here comes a robot! If robotless people yelled robot, THEN it would lose its meaning.
10) It does little to make anyone safer in any way, and may even create a hazard - this is simply false. It informs everyone within ear's reach, as stated before, that a robot's a coming. Prevents people from getting hit by a robot.
11) It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way - well they should. GP? We got a match and need to get somewhere and you don't. If you need to get somewhere with your robot, then we shouldn't be in you way either.
It's safety theater - I suppose. Oops. Oh well.

In short, if no one was in the way, you wouldn't need to yell robot. But it's simply not the case, and yelling robot gets the job done more efficiently and effectively than any other method.

TLDR; yelling robot tells everyone around you that you and your robot is coming and they need to get out of the way ASAP. Exactly what it's supposed to do, in the most efficient manner possible.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I have to respectfully disagree (to a point). Minnesota 10K Lakes has 63 teams. "ROBOT" is the only thing that gets people to move, and if you do anything else, other teams accuse you of trying to take their leg off, even with other people walking ahead and saying "excuse me".

Sorry, but in the 10K pits, you have to yell for the person next to you to hear what you're saying. We have no choice but to yell "ROBOT". Smaller events are easier - Northern Lights, with about 40 teams, had no one yelling "ROBOT" because it wasn't necessary.

Would I prefer if we didn't have to do it in order to not be yelled at by others while coming through? Heck yeah. But there's too many people in the pit - and yelling is the only thing that gets anyone's attention without taking ten minutes to get through ten feet. It's that packed in there. I'm so glad I'm not on drive team this year.

I want to end the shouting too - once out of the pits and in the hall, the yelling stops. Perhaps when we're in the pits, we don't listen and somehow think standing in the walkway until we're screamed at is a good idea.

For certain regionals, the shouting can't end until certain other things change, too.

Yelling robot is rude. But teams at 10K seem to think not yelling it is even more rude.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I propose that the solution to overcrowded pit areas is not to add to the noise and chaos, but to reduce it.

The chain reaction complaint doesn't assume no apparent reason, it observes one. Someone who is not accompanying a robot has no apparent reason to be shouting ROBOT! at all. The chain reaction isn't useful precisely because robotless people are yelling and making it lose its meaning.

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

The big failure with that is that you don't need to tell everyone around you that they need to get out of the way. You only need to tell the people who are in your way. The most efficient way to do that is to walk ahead of the robot and ask them to move. A general shout of ROBOT! doesn't give a good indication of which way you're trying to go, and doesn't help people clear the path you want to take.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Here is my rebuttal:
1) It's not necessary - go to a crowded Costco or grocery store and see how many people yell "shopping cart"
2) It's arrogant - Yelling robot is blatantly saying that you want people to move instead of you, the right thing is to give the person the opportunity to decide to be polite and move out of their own kindness.
3) It's obnoxious - Don't even think of comparing this to yelling "fire", a robot is not going to be that dangerous, besides one should be control of one robot, again got to a grocery store and observe this. The robot on a cart is not that important, thus yelling "robot" is obnoxious
4) It's rude - most people do not appreciate getting yelled in ear. If you have to at least say "excuse me."
5) It creates excessive noise. - music in the pits is a hinderance, especially when you are try to hear a air leak. This does not excuse rude behavior.
6) It startles bystanders - so most of us are elementary school children? Again most people will be startled when yelled at.
7) It turns off the general public - i have guests comment negatively a lot. That because no other industry behaves this way, except maybe rock concerts and security at rock concerts don't have a sterling reputations (technically a broad spectrum of fantastic to intolerable actions).
8) It starts a chain reaction of other teams yelling for no apparent reason - I lost count how many time people yell "robot" after the robot has past. No one needs an entire team to yell when one person would be enough and that person should at lease say "excuse me."
9) With repetition, it becomes white noise and loses all meaning - I am ignoring it, my team is ignoring it, my guests are learning to ignore it because its yelled so frequently and often without a robot near us.
10) It does little to make anyone safer in any way, and may even create a hazard - see 9.
11) It gives teams a false sense of entitlement that others will drop everything to move out of their way - everyone has their own priorities, yelling to show yours is more important is rude. Again you have to let others decide that you have greater priority, denying that shows that you don't care what they think, you just want them to move and thats rude in my opinion.

I really do think quieter pits would fix this. I really like pits in separate buildings even if its a hike to get where you are going.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

at one competition I went to watch they told the teams to tap on the shoulder of people and ask them to move, people do NOT like to be touched, also there are large groups of people and most of the time (from my 4 years of being on a FIRST Team) don't move unless you are forward about it, and also yelling ROBOT gives everyone ahead a heads up that they need to move out of the way. A lot of the people in the pits Even more so on Saturdays than Friday's the public are in the pits looking at the robots and they don't know anything that's going on, but the yelling of ROBOT gets their attention so they are able to move out of your way so that you can get through without having to stop for every single person that is staining in the isle way

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I agree with you here in Michigan if you don't yell robot it will take you 10 minutes just to get to queuing or from the field to your pit just to get through the crowed of people

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

It is silly that this petition exists... but I'm in complete favor of it.

My team has never yelled "robot" while on our way to a match. If there are people in our way, typically an "Excuse us!" works fairly well.

As a tactician who is typically always in the pit walking around or talking to different teams, I find it a fairly annoying practice. With so many teams that don't do it that successfully get to matches on time, I find it hard to believe people are able to find arguments to support it. Then again, this is hardly worth arguing about period, or writing a post much longer than this one in regards to it. Life goes on.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

In Arizona, whenever we were pushing our robot around we would just have somebody about 10 feet in front saying "Excuse us, we're moving our robot." People would generally react far faster and act less surprised this way.

To be perfectly honest, I feel like condoning shouting by rowdy teenagers is something we should just not do. It just does not encourage an air of professionalism.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

A girl was leading her team down the hall yesterday yelling "Robot" with no one anywhere nearby. As we finally passed each other, I asked her who she was yelling at.

And no, not all safety inspectors tell teams that they must yell "Robot". I was eating with a few of them last week and it came up - and they definitely did not encourage it.

I'm not going to sign a petition to ban the yelling of "Robot". But I will remind people of the story of the boy who cried "Wolf". Another example is the highway signs that tell you for several miles that a lane is closed, yet when you get to the site it's wide open. Yell "Robot" too much - which I believe is the case - and it just becomes more of the background noise and gets ignored. It no longer has any effectiveness.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

If this happens at the FIRST in Michigan State Championship, someone please come find me. As the Volunteer Coordinator, I can quietly and politely talk to the Safety Advisers to make sure that we're not requiring teams this of teams.

Shouting loud noise over more loud noise does NOT help people listen more. Two quick stories:

At Troy District this weekend the pits are in a completely different room than the field. It's a pretty chill event, the music is not too loud and there is PLENTY of space for teams to get through when queuing for their matches. And yet, teams are yelling, "ROBOT!" at the top of their lungs.

What happens is that when LOTS of people yell the same thing, you start to naturally just not hear them. Which makes for a MORE dangerous situation. My response, once I notice them yelling, is usually, "'Excuse me,' works much better. Please don't yell at me."

To put it in perspective:
The Boilermaker Regional has pits, field and stands all in one big giant room that echoes. In my ten years of participating in FIRST it was the LOUDEST event that I ever attended. The music was insanely loud. The crowd was cheering like crazy all weekend. And the pits had power tools working constantly.
Not ONE team at BMR yelled "ROBOT!"
Indiana hospitality, I suppose. I saw teams walking through pits with robots carefully, always saying, "Excuse me," if someone was in their way, and here's the kicker: NO ONE got hurt.

I have never heard of anyone saving someone from injury by shouting, "ROBOT!" in their ear.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Is an email being written to FIRST headquarters? Because otherwise this thread is going to do nothing. I guarantee that the vast majority of teams that shout "robot" do not visit CD and/or are just following trends they picked up from other teams or what they are being told.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Let me address this simply, why do you think its rude? I see if its rude if you seen a team yell if the walkways are clear... but in most cases theres a minority doing that.

Second problem: can we say Bill of Rights violation? The word robot hasn't harmed you or anyone in any way, allowing organizations to limit our speech will do a lot more.

I wish more FIRST volunteers were here to comment but they prefer robot because it is the fastest way, even if a team is late getting to the field. Honestly, they do have greater priority of other people, its not the team that thinks that, its whoever created the match sequence.


All who thinks this petition is moot say "I"

Edit: To the many people who say they are ignoring the word intentionally: you are the problem, honestly, we wouldn't need to say it if you weren't in the way and the fact that you aren't going to move on purpose is arrogant and shouldn't be done

Suggestions to team leaders, experienced roboteers, mentors:

1. Coach our younger members to use common sense. Speak in appropriate volume with courtesy.

2. Use humor if you do need to be loud. It will dissolve misunderstandings. I love some of the creative ideas mentioned in this thread.

3. Do it with a smile on your face and look at the people you are trying to get their attention.

Lead by example... And our next generation will follow...

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I hope you don't mind - I'm going to switch the order of your arguments so mine make more sense.
Can we not get into the whole Bill of Rights thing? I fail to see how asking people to not yell at each other is a violation of your rights. You're asked not to yell in school - are your teachers oppressing your rights? You're asked to not yell in a courtroom - is the judge oppressing your rights? Maybe we should all just walk around yelling because HEY, WE HAVE FREE SPEECH AND CAN THEREFORE SAY ANYTHING WE WANT!

No. Free Speech (in Canada) is a thing because we feel it's important to be able to express one's opinions. Free Speech does not give you an excuse to annoy other people for no reason. It does not give you an excuse to be (quoting Woodie Flowers) an incompetent jerk. Why am I using this term? Well...

Sure, Free Speech says that you CAN yell at people to get out of your way at the supermarket. There might be plenty of people clogging up the aisle, and all you need is a cake for your sister's birthday party that's starting NOW. You were supposed to pick it up earlier, but stuff got in the way, and now you're late. Does this mean it's not rude to yell at people to get out of your way so you can pick up this cake?

No, you're being an incompetent jerk. Incompetent because if you picked up the cake earlier, you wouldn't have had this problem. A jerk because now you're yelling at other people. It's very rarely socially acceptable to yell at anyone, regardless of what you're yelling. In the pits: You're being incompetent because, as several very successful teams have noted, you don't NEED to yell "ROBOT." You're being a jerk because, even though you don't need to, you CHOOSE to. I frankly don't care if your team is heading off to a match. If I'm in my pit, I don't want to hear that.

----

In Montreal, there was a team that celebrated each victory by parading their entire team through the pits, making noise and blocking aisles. One time they were blocking my team from queuing for a match. I politely tapped one of them on the shoulder, motioned to the robot, said "Pardon." ... And this whole huge francophone team (Je ne parle pas francais) moved. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that you don't need to yell to make your way through a crowd. People understand that you need to get to matches. If you let them know (politely) what you're doing, they'll get out of your way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I keep seeing it mentioned that "ROBOT!" has become a tradition in FRC for some. It wasn't always that way; I personally don't remember it on a large scale until our regional and the championship in 2007. As Adam and Kyle noted the practice really didn't start until the safety award was created in 2005, and I believe it came about as a way of teams trying to set themselves apart from the rest for their safety practices. I definitely recall that years teams were offering up "robot escorts" that would would walk with other teams and shout robot for them to help them get through the pits. I also recall that some "robot escorts" would do this without asking, and I remember as part of the drive team that year telling them to go away because they weren't helpful (or sometimes yelling it, in a less-than-kind tone. Being on the drive team is stressful :p ).

There was a lot of complaints about the "ROBOT!" practice back in 2007 too, but the same arguments on both sides were presented then and the practice didn't die. At this point I think it's too late to stop it unless an outright ban was placed on it (which I don't want to see either). None of the drive teams I've been apart of have ever used it and we never had a problem getting around the pits, but I can see how it has become tradition for some, and at this point I think I will just have to accept it (much like how "We graciously accept" has become a tradition that irks many). If you do shout it as you come by though don't expect me to tell you what a good, safe job you're doing navigating the pits, and if safety inspectors start requiring this practice at a regional I attend I'm going to have a nice long discussion with one (or more) of them about why we won't be doing it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Why does it matter? At the end of the day the competition will still be running if people are yelling robot ,or politely asking people to move.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Really? Thus far you have heard from: two former FIRST Senior Mentors, at least one volunteer coordinator, and I count at least 8 other volunteers (plus me now). That's over 17% of the commentors on this thread, and (like the vast majority of other commentors) none of us agree that it's universally preferable.


The majority of the people who hear you yelling at a disruptive level are actually, actively in your way? Wow. That's a ridiculously big problem in and of itself. In the 7 years that I've been the vanguard of our cart, I've never had to ask more than maybe 1 in 15 of the people who would hear me yell "robot" to please move out of the way. In virtually every pit layout I can imagine, the vast majority of people who hear you yell are not impeding your movement--yelling merely creates more chaos and annoys people who don't actually have to move.


Personally, my first priority is to get the Green Shirts to stop ordering and/or rewarding teams to yell "robot" regardless of who is or is not in their way. Between that and putting an end to overflowing pits (including sometimes our own), much of this issue and others would become less obtrusive.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Are you honestly asking whether or not it's better to be polite than to yell?

It matters because what we're trying to celebrate isn't supposed to be based on force or loudness or entitlement. It's supposed to be based on inspiration and professionalism and grace.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I have heard of people just about getting run over by robots--their pushers shouted "ROBOT!", but apparently didn't bother to wait for the path to clear. The risk of injury goes up when people treat the yell of robot as a "I have priority, get the $^%# out of my way!" yell, and others don't know about it.

I'm with Donut on this; from my time as a student, I only remember it at the Championship (and then only from one particular team's robot escorts). The next year (2008), I was at an event with probably the tightest pits these teams had ever seen--no yells of ROBOT. 2009 and 2010, at the regionals I went to? Maybe once or twice. 2013? I heard 3-4 different teams using it, even when there was nobody in the way (and even those teams had their lead elements saying it, not their pushers screaming it).



As far as people not liking to be touched (something that somebody in favor of YELLING ROBOT pointed out), I would put the touch as the second method of getting attention. Now, a quick tap on the shoulder, most people won't mind too badly, especially if it's followed by an explanation. The first method is to say "Excuse us, we need to bring a robot through"; if they don't pay attention, tap them to get their attention, then repeat.



The real reason why the yelling is dangerous, though, goes far beyond just the competition. It goes YEARS down the road, somewhere you younguns haven't quite seen yet. The yelling increases the overall decibel (dB) level of the competition. In general, higher dB levels have shorter times you can hear them without losing hearing. Yep, you heard me right, losing hearing. (What? you ask--read that again.) In fact, if the volume level is over a certain amount, you're supposed to put on hearing protection--at my work, I'm wearing earplugs about every other day, if not more often, due to the loud noises that can happen with or without warning. What we're trying to do is to bring down some of the overall level so that we don't have to bring as many ear protection devices to hear longer. If you don't wear your earplugs in noisy environments when you're young, you'll be wearing them in quiet environments when you're older, but they'll be called hearing aids then.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I was a student for four years, a volunteer for four (overlaps student and mentor years), and a mentor for six. I dislike yelling it because it's unnecessary, has an air of arrogance about it, and it's entirely possible to get to the field when late without yelling it or injuring people in the pits.

There are a lot of people here that seemingly take it as an immutable fact of life that the competitions are horrifically loud. By no means will they ever be a library, but they are currently much louder than they need to be.

They are often so loud, that I wear normal 30 dB earplugs, and can still hear all announcements just fine. In fact, I can usually hear people's conversations just fine, because they're usually yelling to be heard over the music and announcements.

Checking the volume levels with dB meters often shows they are way over the threshold at which hearing damage occurs. And it's not because of the tools (I worked in a machine shop during college, and you can usually have a normal conversation with an indoor voice in there when all the machines were running), it's the music and announcements; they are unnecessarily loud.

This level of noise pollution is a genuine safety issue that I believe needs to be resolved, because it is slowly causing permanent injury to long-term partipants in FRC.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Two teams did while I was within earshot on Thursday morning. Both of them were quickly reminded that having a team member or two in front of the robot to clear the way would work better with less disruption to the rest of the teams. Since I didn't hear it again, I assume they found that the advice was correct.

Underwriter Laboratories (UL) assigns the Lead Safety Advisor for FRC Regionals. Who would be a good person at UL to talk about robot cart transit practices?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

This would be a good place in the thread for one our safety folks to chime in. What is currently being done to monitor noise levels? Anything?

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Eh? Sorry, could you please repeat that, I couldn't quite hear you. ;)

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Yell "Scrap Metal" instead, it the same thing as "break a leg" in theater. Not really it would just be hilarious

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Please read my post more carefully, i am starting to loose track of what people are saying too:D .

Let me elaborate, the polite thing to do is to give people the opportunity to make their own decision. Say for example I am running late for a match, however my path is blocked by a team taking pictures. I would say, "excuse me, can I get through? I am late for my match." Then they can decide for themselves if they have priority, if they are polite, they would have determine that me and the robot could squeeze through. However there are scenarios where a team may choose not to move for me. My choice is not the scream "robot" but to say "excuse me, I am late, can you please move." Ultimately, in this scenario, we could both be rude about it but i would rather be the polite one. If I was returning to the pit, I might even wait.

The idea is to give people the opportunity to be think about it and make the right decision. Sort of how the fast lane is suppose to work, where the slower car yields to the faster car. Good luck getting rid of the "tradition" of the slow car in the fast lane. It appears we are stuck with it as a lasting symbol of americana:D *

Back to the point of the 1st amendment, as you pointed out and i mentioned before, a ban won't work. However I object to the mandatory practice of saying "robot" that occurred at the IE regional (see sand drag 1st post). You can say whatever you want. I am just going to call you rude when you say, "robot."

*sarcasm

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Blindly shouting robot is nothing but plain laziness.

Use some effort, take some initiative and clear the people out of the way that are actually in the path of the robot. Do this by politely saying "Excuse us" or tapping them on the shoulder with the same statement.

You've got my support.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

As Professor Farnsworth would say "Good news everybody - you're not that guy." An aisle is a path between fixed obstacles, such as between seats on a plane or between rows of pillars or columns.

My proposal is more like adding lane markings to a road.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

There is something appealing about giving a team a small bicycle bell for their robot cart. :rolleyes:

As a mentor, I never try to never miss a teaching moment. So the appropriate response is to move and stand in the path of the oncoming "ROBOT", then point (use the double thumb motion) and say (using your inside voice) "MENTOR" You can then discuss with them on how to move the robot safely and sanely to their destination. And maybe help them out.

No so much in favor of this petition, but happy to sign the one forcing people to use common sense at all times.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Click here to sign the petition There is no need to enter your address when signing.

This way we can keep track of who supports this and submit an actual petition to FIRST.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I agree that it's annoying, but sometimes it's just the easiest way to get people who are obnoxiously clogging up the lanes in between pits out of your way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

For those that disagree with the OP or petition:

please read them again. Here's the relevant parts:

(emphasis mine AND his)

This thread has taken a few tangents, but IMO, the intent is NOT to decide what the new mandated behavior will be, or to actually BAN the use of [loud]ROBOT!!![/loud]

The point is to get rid of the mandates and incentives by safety officials regarding this behavior.

hmmm, I wonder if I could have made the same point in a regular size font?:rolleyes:

Also, the use of the word loud in this thread has been very ambiguous and it's entirely possible people are just talking past each other.

I haven't even had my regional yet, and don't recall if this has ever been required in CO, but I certainly don't want to be a part of it.

so to anyone in CO next week: feel free to yell, and I'll feel free to be annoyed. I'll be instructing my team to use the PVT: the polite vanguard technique (Alan--want to split the trademark on this phrase? We'll be RICH!).

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

REQUIRING it is the problem here. If there are excessive people in the aisle, I can understand "Robot Coming through", and politely asking people in the general area to stay in their pit area and not take up part of the aisle used for transporting robots.

Also, excessive shouting of it, as pointed out in OP, makes it lose all meaning. More often than not people just stare as you nearly take out their ankles and the person they are talking to in the aisle pulls them closer to the pit.

Thinking again, I really think the shouting of "ROBOT", "ROBOT COMING THROUGH" revolves around poor management of people standing in the aisle near the pit. KEEP THE AISLE CLEAR.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Wow, I'm really surprised to see so many people against this practice!

My team only ever goes to one regional, so I guess it's different at others, but I've never heard the call of "ROBOT!" as a "Get out of my way or I'm going to run you over!" sort of thing (Which is certainly rude and arrogant), I've always heard is as a warning, like "FORE" in golf.

We always have people out in front of the cart to clear a path, and don't go ramming the cart through if there are people in the way, but we still yell "ROBOT!" as a warning to people nearby to watch themselves. We also often yell "Watch out! Robot coming through!"

Robots often may have protruding arms or elements that (while inside the frame perimeter of course) may still hit people who thought they were out of the way. If you direct your warnings only to the people in front of you, who are in your way, people on the sides of you may not be looking out for you.

So alerting people in the area, not just the people directly in front of you is necessary in my opinion.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Signed.

I find teams who calmly walk through the pits with someone in front of the cart politely asking people to move and saying 'excuse me' far more professional that someone yelling 'robot' constantly.

In some cases the students seem to think that volume is key, and actually hurt your ears as they walk by yelling it.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

I put it in the public domain a year ago.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Agreed. At Chesapeake and DC, where there are 60+ teams, it's very hard to hear and there are incredible amounts of people in the pits. While we don't do it all the time, it's just hard sometimes to get people out of the way. Is there a polite and non-polite way to say it? Yeah, but yelling Robot is sometimes the only way.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

+1, or thumbs up. Totally agreed.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Perhaps to go along with the Mustang/Cowboy theme our team has going, I'll add a steel cowcatcher to the front of our cart so we don't have to yell "robot" anymore...

On a serious note, comparing yelling "robot" to "fore" is an analogy that I don't think holds. On a golf course, people could be yards and yards away and are already somewhat expecting a golf ball to the head. At a competition, with public pits and what not, people aren't coming for the thrill of getting run over by a sprinting teenager wildly piloting a cart.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

As the man pushing our robot around at the STL Regional, yes, having to yell EXCUSE ME ROBOT COMING THROUGH was on the way to and from every single match. There were two or three times when it was clear, and the only notable time I can remember the pit lanes being truly empty was after the last match of the finals.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

Right, and I'm not advocating people barreling down the aisle with 200ish pounds of cart and robot. Go slow, be careful, and watch out for people.

But at the same time, the drivers and robot need to get places, and need people out of their way And we don't want anyone to get hurt when, say, they take a step backwards into the aisle (as teenagers will sometimes do), and get smacked by a robot appendage.

Re: Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
 

To be honest if you want to make a petition how about one to have people stop clogging up the pits using it as a social club and stop blocking the entrances and exits which is equally rude and obnoxious and a fire hazard?