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wdburk3160 03-04-2013 10:37
GoPro Legality?
 
Our team has ordered a gopro hero 3 and want to take video during our matches. We know it is legal, because we have seen multiple teams' footage from them. The gopro has a wifi option, where you can take pictures wirelessly and such. We want to know if it is legal or not to use this wifi option, as it may interfere with comms on the field.

Andrew Schreiber 03-04-2013 10:40
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
It is not legal to have the wifi option on on field or in the pits.

wdburk3160 03-04-2013 10:46
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Okay thank you

team4384 03-04-2013 10:53
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
However you can use non-wifi and non-bluetooth (no communication, self contained) device to record video. If you have it on your bot let the inspector and referee know about it. Teams cannot setup any sort of communication/network other than FMS is not allowed.

I guess you can have iPhone on the bot.

Pendulum^-1 03-04-2013 10:58
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdburk3160 (Post 1256696)
Our team has ordered a gopro hero 3 and want to take video during our matches. We know it is legal, because we have seen multiple teams' footage from them.
I would not assume that one item is legal because someone else used it. At the DC regional, we made sure that the inspectors knew what version GoPro camera we used. They told us that the GoPro Naked we had on the robot was ok. (The question of GoPro Hero 3 was not addressed.)

Go to the official Q&A to get questions answered. A442 addresses GoPro directly.

We use a GoPro "Naked" version, an earlier version with zero WiFi capability. Quite capable camera, especially with a 32 GB chip and extra battery pack added on. This gives us more than 4 hours of capacity in both video storage and power.

As the GoPro Naked provides 1080P resolution, I do not know how someone could distinguish the video produced by a GoPro Naked from the video produced by a GoPro Hero 3.

Daniel Brim 03-04-2013 11:06
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdburk3160 (Post 1256696)
Our team has ordered a gopro hero 3 and want to take video during our matches. We know it is legal, because we have seen multiple teams' footage from them. The gopro has a wifi option, where you can take pictures wirelessly and such. We want to know if it is legal or not to use this wifi option, as it may interfere with comms on the field.
GoPros are great tools for documenting your team and spreading the word of FIRST, so congratulations.

As stated, the WiFi will need to be off. Additionally, you'll want to make sure that it is attached (or with) the robot when it gets weighed (and sized, if you're putting it in a location that would impact that). Also, be sure to include it in the BOM that you provide to the inspectors. These are minor things that are easy to overlook, but it's best to leave no extra questions for the inspectors.

BrendanRadabaug 03-04-2013 11:08
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
we have a GoPro Hero 3 on this years robot and pay close attention to not hit the WiFi button, the camera gets turned on when the robot is set on the field and that's when we start recording (edit the video down later) we keep the camera and all its mounts attached to the robot during inspection and weighing.

Phyrxes 03-04-2013 11:10
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
This year our robot featured a GoPro Hero2 with no issues after talking to referees and inspectors. That said we purchased the Hero2 specifically for the fact that it does not have built in WiFi. Robot and coach views are great sources of footage to use in promotional videos for your team.

tsaksa 03-04-2013 11:15
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
At the Portland regional we asked for permission to place a Go-Pro camera on our robot and were denied. We finally compromised and were allowed to temporarily mount the camera on our robot cart and take video of the robot riding the cart to the field. We were not using WiFi, our robot was well within weight with the camera attached, and the inspectors did not have a problem with it. However, the field team had concerns and decided not to allow it. As with anything, be sure to ask, and be prepared to accept any ruling by the officials.

jwallace15 03-04-2013 11:27
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
We were allowed to have ours on during qualifying matches at West Michigan, but were told to take it off during Eliminations (due to the wifi capability).

Andrew Schreiber 03-04-2013 11:28
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaksa (Post 1256712)
At the Portland regional we asked for permission to place a Go-Pro camera on our robot and were denied. We finally compromised and were allowed to temporarily mount the camera on our robot cart and take video of the robot riding the cart to the field. We were not using WiFi, our robot was well within weight with the camera attached, and the inspectors did not have a problem with it. However, the field team had concerns and decided not to allow it. As with anything, be sure to ask, and be prepared to accept any ruling by the officials.
What rules did they tell you it violated? It's a legal "non functional decoration" on your robot. Provided the wifi is off it emits no signals that are any more consequential than those that come off the wires of a BB550.

I wish there was some sort of consistency in how rules are being enforced this year. I've found the GoPro footage to be incredibly useful in PR for our team and it's silly that teams are being told they can't put one on their robot.

rsisk 03-04-2013 11:28
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaksa (Post 1256712)
... However, the field team had concerns and decided not to allow it. As with anything, be sure to ask, and be prepared to accept any ruling by the officials.
Did they express what their concern was?

Patrick Flynn 03-04-2013 11:38
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Using an on-board camera should be legal as long as all other rules are also followed. see here,
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...94&postcount=3

In some cases I can understand FTA's or officials requesting that you not use them because they are not familiar with how these cameras function. But assuming you are able to show that they meet all other rules I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use one.

thefro526 03-04-2013 11:41
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
For those of you looking to cite a Q&A that allows you to use a Go Pro:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q446
Q. What cameras are we allowed to use and what are we not allowed to use? After reading the rules we are wondering if we could facetime the robot by either hooking up a camera connected to the router or just an ipod to the robot?

A. There are no Rules explicitly allowing or disallowing any specific camera, provided that all other ROBOT Rules are met, specifically [R56]. For technical help with getting video from the ROBOT to the OPERATOR CONSOLE, please use the FRC Technical section of the FRC Supplier Q&A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q442
Q. Is it possible to use a GoPro Camera to record the games for further use? As long as we don't break any of the price, weight or security rules, is there a problem?

A. There are no Rules explicitly prohibiting this, but remember [R74].
Interpret as you may, but it seems like as long as you've got the weight and the camera is not transmitting signals to and from the robot/itself, you're good to go.

FrankJ 03-04-2013 11:59
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
There is a wide range of experience level with the inspectors. (This is not a criticism after all they are volunteers & there are always more experienced people they can go to.) The best way to deal with this is to know the rules & be able to show what section of the rules allow the camera. If the camera has questionable options like, wifi, you should be able to demonstrate how to keep them off. Ultimately the LRIs decision is final though.

Interestedly it is theoretically possible to use a wifi camera by reading the rules & pre-planning.
Quote:
R74
Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the ROBOT, such as remote cameras, must be approved by FIRST (via e-mail to frcparts@usfirst.org) prior to the event and tested for communications interference at the venue. Such devices, if reviewed and approved, are excluded from R62.

fox46 03-04-2013 13:54
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
We've been running two GoPros on our machine, one older version and one Hero3 Black edition. We only ever had issues in Boston where one overzealous inspector was concerned about the WiFi option, stating that a frisbee could hit the camera and activate the option... A brief conversation with the head inspector allayed his concerns and there were no further issues. Just be sure to have the camera (s) installed during weigh-in and inspection. Our two other regionals, GTR East and GTR West there were no issues aside from a confirmation from inspectors that the wireless capability would not be used. They have given us some absolutely awesome footage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVIbqpcoUCI - Be sure to watch in 1080p!

Boe 03-04-2013 13:58
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Shouldn't the gopro have to be powered off the battery per r34. Or is there another rule that lets you power it off the camera battery

Joe Ross 03-04-2013 14:07
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boe (Post 1256769)
Shouldn't the gopro have to be powered off the battery per r34. Or is there another rule that lets you power it off the camera battery
R34 directly covers a camera powered by its internal battery.

Al Skierkiewicz 03-04-2013 20:25
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Joe is correct...
R34...
Exception: Batteries integral to and part of a COTS computing device or self-contained camera are also permitted (e.g.
laptop batteries), provided they’re only used to power the COTS computing device and any peripheral COTS USB
input devices connected to the COTS computing device and they must be securely fastened to the ROBOT.

theCADguy 03-04-2013 20:51
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
It is legal to use a GoPro, but using the wi-fi feature is illegal.
Team 20 is also considering mounting a GoPro on our robot, as well.

Tytus Gerrish 03-04-2013 21:32
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
as long as the controlling devise is not in the hands of the drive team i let it go.

I presumed having a remote control to start and stop recording was better than an extra team member manually pushing the buttons on the camera while the robot was in que.

I got in trouble for that alot with my original gopro in 2011 sort of abusing my voulinteer position. but there isin't enough room on those cards to record all the idle time waiting for the match.

Andrew Schreiber 03-04-2013 21:39
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tytus Gerrish (Post 1256993)
as long as the controlling devise is not in the hands of the drive team i let it go.

I presumed having a remote control to start and stop recording was better than an extra team member manually pushing the buttons on the camera while the robot was in que.

I got in trouble for that alot with my original gopro in 2011 sort of abusing my voulinteer position. but there isin't enough room on those cards to record all the idle time waiting for the match.
I bought a 64GB card for mine. Haven't filled the card. Batteries die quick though.

kjohnson 03-04-2013 22:54
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1256999)
Batteries die quick though.
We got 2 spare batteries plus wall and car charger for our Hero 3 from Amazon for $24.

ekapalka 03-04-2013 23:17
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
GoPro cameras can still function perfectly if plugged into a wall socket or car charger. Maybe this helps?

Andrew Schreiber 03-04-2013 23:48
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukemknight (Post 1257037)
We got 2 spare batteries plus wall and car charger for our Hero 3 from Amazon for $24.
I've got a pair of spare batteries too. They just die quickly. But I'm used to my DSLR which basically needs a recharge once a month after heavy use.

Whippet 04-04-2013 21:54
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1256730)
There is a wide range of experience level with the inspectors. (This is not a criticism after all they are volunteers & there are always more experienced people they can go to.) The best way to deal with this is to know the rules & be able to show what section of the rules allow the camera. If the camera has questionable options like, wifi, you should be able to demonstrate how to keep them off. Ultimately the LRIs decision is final though.

R74
Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the ROBOT, such as remote cameras, must be approved by FIRST (via e-mail to frcparts@usfirst.org) prior to the event and tested for communications interference at the venue. Such devices, if reviewed and approved, are excluded from R62.


Interestedly it is theoretically possible to use a wifi camera by reading the rules & pre-planning.
So, by this rule, it could theoretically be legal to have a camera above the field to track the positions of the other robots and have a completely autonomous robot that plays the entire game on its own?

Al Skierkiewicz 08-04-2013 00:40
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Whippet,
How did you get from Frank's post to your conclusion? The quoted rule for wireless devices are directed at devices to communicate with or from the robot.

IndySam 08-04-2013 07:16
Re: GoPro Legality?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1257054)
I've got a pair of spare batteries too. They just die quickly. But I'm used to my DSLR which basically needs a recharge once a month after heavy use.
In our experience turning on wifi kills the battery. We were able to record a lot longer with it turned off.


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