An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Through week 6, 203 teams have played 1048 matches in the state of Michigan. We are down to the final 64 teams, roughly the top 30%. In the 4-year history of the Michigan State Championship, Michigan has produced 6 Einstein Finalists and regularly provides about 25% of the FRC Championship’s Divisional Eliminations teams. Of the 16 finalist captains and first picks in the 4 years of the Michigan State Championship, 9 have been at least Divisional Finalists. Success at MSC matters and it’s an indicator of good things to come.

What's at stake here? Unlike the regionals that take place around the country, the district competitions do not qualify anyone to championship. Currently, 6 FiM teams are qualified for championship. 67 and 51 are HoF teams, 27 won the EI award at Northern Lights, 245 won the Palmetto Regional, 2834 won at Buckeye, and 288 won the EI award at the Western Canadian Regional. 27 spots remain for 59 other teams to fight for, and every team wants one of those spots.

MSC has proven to be the strongest event outside of the CMP and IRI. The average scores are off the charts and the depth is unparalleled. 37 teams have previous OPRs over 40, with half of those (18) over 50. Losing scores over 100 will be the norm and we may see the greatest collection of 200-point matches at one event outside of IRI.

With strategy developing and evolving through each week, Ultimate Ascent has turned into a sport of positions. Some positions are obvious (the full court shooters and the climbers), while others are more obscure. Only a few teams have been able to consistently score the colored discs, worth 5 points apiece, from the ground. Even the most elite of the colored disc scorers, 2145 with their 4-disc toss, may not make a big splash at MSC, though each of those teams is capable scoring in other ways. Below are rankings of which teams seem to be the best at each of the most common “positions” in the game.

The Full Court Shooters
An effective full court shooter (FCS) can light up the scoreboard whether they score in the 2pt or 3pt goal. FCSs have seen the most success during qualifying rounds, when opposing alliances typically do not defend them effectively. They pose a huge threat in elims if they’re allowed to shoot unopposed. These robots fall under this specialty.

1. 67 - HOT will take any chance they get to take the long 3-point shot. They have unmatched accuracy and shooting speed, but lack ideal height. If you leave them alone, you’ve probably already lost.
2. 469 - They don’t do it often, but when The Guerillas do they can run up the score. Pretty accurate for 3 points, but mainly stick to their guns of picking up and shooting
3. 326 - One of few FCS only robots. Their odd length robot makes them a tipping liability, but does allow them to squeeze through the smaller holes. Love shooting 2-pointers and can empty out a feeder station.
4. 910 - Another FCS only robot is the Foley Freeze. They shoot the discs very hard and quickly. They can shoot for either 2 or 3 points, but do have a hard time with both feeding and hitting the target.
5. 2137 - This combination robot likes to shoot the distance when it can, but TORC will ride around and pick up discs when they can’t. Their high-arced shot is tough to block, but isn’t very accurate.
6. 503 - The Frog Force will set up shop in the right feeder station in most matches, shoots for 2 points a lot, but does tend to have discs bounce out.

• Honorable mentions: 3414, 217, 1701, 3604

The 50-point Climbers and Dumpers
The hardest single task in this year's game is climbing the pyramid. The list of capable teams is small, but grows each week as teams finally get everything going. The biggest addition to these robots is the 20pt dump into the top of the pyramid, achieving the 50pt play. These robots have shown the ability to get those 50 points, a potential match-clincher.

1. 1025+3572 - Probably the most consistent of all the dumpers are IMPI and Wavelength. They’ve each proved that climbing all the way to the top of the pyramid can be done and often. However, climbing is typically the limit of their teleop scoring. They’ll have to add another dimension to their games to be contenders.
2. 1918 - Added climbing and dumping at West Michigan and it was a game changer for NC Gears, even after already winning Traverse City. This fast climbing machine needs about 30 seconds to climb, but once on the pyramid it’s nothing but up, up, up. Very good scoring machine otherwise.
3. 1023 - This machine has been up and down the pyramid, literally. After the fall in the first match at Detroit, the Bedford Express has been playing the catch-up game. Needing only about 30 seconds to climb, they can play offense and defense during game play.
4. 67 - HOT hasn't yet to show an ability to climb consistently. Expect them to up their climbing game at MSC, but they will not successfully climb every match.

The Pickups
Floor loading may have been the most overlooked part of the game this year. The opportunity to add 24 extra points in auton is a huge boost, a great advantage right out of the gate, in both qualifying and elimination matches. Teams with pickups can also employ the “Ground and Pound” strategy, where they clean up the misses made by runners and FCSs.

1. 33 - A vacuum and the best pickup Michigan has to offer. The Killer Bees can sweep the field for any full-court shooter and have one of the best autons in the World.
2. 2054 - The Tech Vikes have won their two districts as 1st captain and 1st pick, but are untested against stronger competition. Their speedily spinning pickup should prove effective despite any defense, however.
3. 469 - The Guerillas love to play an FCS-Pickup strategy, sometimes playing both roles themselves. They almost always score the centerline discs, whether using their midline auton or going straight for them when the clock hits 2 minutes.
4. 3539 - A very solid pickup that augments an already-great robot. However, The Byting Bulldogs struggled to keep up with 67’s misses at Troy. Might be a better match for a quick cycler
5. 2474+1684 - Excel and the Chimeras are limited by the speed of their arms, but each picks up consistently and effectively in auton and teleop
6. 70/494+1918 - These teams have pickups, technically, but they’re mostly limited to autonomous use. The Martians and NC Gears strongly prefer cycling to picking up floor discs in teleop
7. 2337 - Seemed to be on an upward trajectory at Troy, but regressed at Bedford. They’ve flashed 7-disc auton ability, but the EngiNERDs need to make big improvements to make the elims.

The Cyclers
One thing Michigan is not short on is talented and speedy cyclers. Nearly every robot at MSC has the ability to receive discs from the feeder stations and score in the high goal, but some teams have the elite speed and maneuvering capability to get around the best defense. With so many cycling robots, the few we’ve listed here are the cream of the crop.

1. 245 - The best pure cycler in Michigan, the Adambots were an excellent complement to 469 at Troy as they took out two of the best in 67 and 3539. Like an elite kickoff returner, they get from one side of the field to the other in a flash.
2. 1718 - The Fighting Pi is having the kind of season most teams dream of. Two district wins and a district chairman’s award. They are deceptively quick and rarely miss, all while moving their entire shooting apparatus up and down to score discs. They’ve played in 33’s shadow so far, but should put any doubts of their ability to rest this weekend
3. 862 - Winner of two districts this year, in both they were the most accurate scorer at the events. Coupled with their ability to quickly make runs to the feeder station, that great accuracy makes them a threat at MSC.
4. 3539 - The Byting Bulldogs have the talent to put up huge points while cycling, though they effectively utilize their ground pickup as well. They have extraordinary speed, from crossing the field to lining up for their shots
5. 68 - One of the fastest runners Michigan has to offer is Truck Town Thunder (T3). They can pull off up to 6 cycles per match, if left undefended. They have a drivetrain made to push people around, with all the speed needed to race around the field.
6. 2959 - The Robotarians are a quick scoring team, but they could use more practice lining up and playing against defence. They broke out in a big way this season, winning St. Joseph, and could pose a big threat to the established powers at MSC.
7. 33 - Though they typically sweep the field carpet for discs, the Killer Bees can get to and from the feeder station really well. The only weakness to their game is that they lack ideal speed
8. 3234 - The Red Arrows have broken out the last two seasons and have improved greatly as this season has moved along. At West Michigan, they were one of the fastest robots on the field, able to put up a lot of points and hard to defend.
9. 573 - The Mech Warriors have built another very good and especially quick robot this year. Their one issue is that they just aren’t that consistent at the 3pt shot and tend to go after the 2pt goal. May need to switch goals, with minimal loss of accuracy, to be a contender.
10. 67 - The HOT team hasn’t been forced to cycle often, but when it has been necessary, they’ve proven themselves capable. With more FCS defense to be expected at MSC, they may need to improve this facet of their game.
11. 2000 - Team Rock has the speed to be an elite cycler, but struggles to beat good defense. Having improved significantly from Gull Lake to St. Joe, practice might make perfect for a team that has been unlucky so far in eliminations.
12. 2474 - Team Excel has continued to be a dominant force on Michigan’s west coast. Now they need to take their fast feeding robot and their game to the next level to compete for that state title in Ypsi.
13. 27 - The team with luck not on their side has been RUSH. At their first event, they were a jam away from winning St. Joseph district and then were the #1 captain at Livonia and got beat in the finals. They are a fast runner, but if hit while driving around, they tend to lose a disc or two.
14. 3656+1189 - Both the Gear Heads and Dreadbots were very successful early in the season, with 2 District finalists and 1 District Win between them, but will need to up their game considerably to see the same success at MSC. Seeing them in the eliminations would be no surprise, but they won’t have a cake walk to Saturday afternoon either.

• Honorable Mentions: 3414, 2619, 2851, 858, 2612, 314
• A special note about these honorable mentions: Unlike the other honorable mentions, every single one of these teams has had considerable success at the district level. The rankings are somewhat arbitrary towards the bottom because all of these robots have good talent. But, as pure cyclers without significant improvements, they’ll most likely be fighting to get picked at the tail-end of alliance selections.

How it's all going to go down
Ranking teams is all well and good, but it’s difficult to predict how the game will evolve and play out at the Michigan State Championship. With the number of full-court shooters, tall defenders will be in high demand and potentially short supply, as that role was typically taken by the 3rd robots in district eliminations. Even when they’re able to take their long shots, winning matches will be difficult for the less accurate full-court shooters, unless they have a pickup robot on their alliance.

Pure cyclers may have trouble as well. Though they’ve been able to outclass most of their opponents so far, there are a large number of talented cycling robots at MSC. Captains could look for an additional ability, whether it’s an extra-disc autonomous mode or high climbing.

Pickups could have the best time at MSC. To start, there really aren’t very many available. Every alliance will want to get extra discs in auton. Robots that can pick up are a near-necessary partner for an FCS, but they can complement any other robot type well. Two pickups on the same alliance could overmatch an opposing FCS by cleaning up their misses or starve an opposing pickup making them one-dimensional.

Versatility will be valuable to avoid being predictable. For that reason, it’s most likely that the Michigan State Champions will be some combination of the three strongest and most versatile teams: 33, 67, and 469. The Killer Bees not only have the best auton and would complement an FCS perfectly, but they can also score independently and effectively. Las Guerrillas may not have the best auton or the best FCS, but their ability to pick up from the floor, shoot in cycles, or shoot full-court will confound opposing alliances. Finally, HOT will run the best FCS at the event and has added a 50-point climb and dump to top it off. Any two of these robots could decisively take the Michigan State Championship.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Great analysis!!!

So, Mr. Informer, any chance you'd like to meet for coffee, say, this Saturday morning?

Oh yeah, if you happen to have a picklist handy by then, maybe bring that along?? Just a peek????

:cool:

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

For the 50 point climber/dumpers, you forgot 4294, StarTREC out of Lansing. At both Troy and Bedford they climbed and dumped successfully in nearly every match (only missing one in each, if that many). So I would actually rank them higher than every other climber/dumper since (from what I've seen) they're more consistent than any of the teams you mentioned.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Yes, they indeed were great at the climb/dump, but, sadly, they missed the cutoff and won't be at MSC.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I'm curious to see how this compares to LF's post, as it is well thought out and in depth. Thank's for educating me on some of the lesser known Michigan teams to look out for.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Oh I didn't even know that (obviously). That's disappointing, they're a great group of people.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

You had me up to the conclusion.

While I think a pairing between 33/67/469 would indeed be a very strong alliance, I don't feel the powerhouse teams are as dominant as they were last season. Meanwhile, there are several versatile teams on the west side, like 1918 and 2054, that are very strong this year that could make great partners in a winning alliance.

I wouldn't rule out an upset, but that's just my .02$

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Yes. 4294 had a really poor showing at their first district event. If it was the second two events that counted, StarTREC would surely have made to to state's and on this list.

DjScribbles, you are right on the versatile teams part, 33, 67 and 469, have become the most versatile teams and bring different things to the table. If together, it's unlikely they may be stopped.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

It appears to me from the rules that District Rookie All Star winners will also be there competing for the State RAS spot even though there are no Rookie robots competing. Is that correct? Do teams with District CA and EI awards who didn't qualify for the State meet on points get to come and compete for those awards (I don't know if there are any)? That could also reduce the number of available spots for the 59 other teams.

Great post btw - thanks for the info

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Is was an error on my part. All 11 of the DCA winners are competing with robot this weekend. Two of those already have autobids to championship 27 and 2834. But 3 FiM teams will be selected to represent Michigan in St. Louis for the WCA. You are correct. All the rookie all-star and EI winners will compete without robot, and each grouping is awarded one spot for St. Louis. In reality there is about 22 spots open for teams to win via points.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

CA winners are the only teams that get to bring their robots to MSC to compete that don't make it with points.

EI and RAS only get to be interviewed on Saturday if their robot didn't make it via the point system.

-Clinton-

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

From the Championship registration list today, it looks like 288 has not registered yet from their qualification this weekend but 217 has, from the waitlist I assume since they didn't attend last year.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I do not believe there's a waitlist based on previous year's experiences. You can only attend MSC based on the current year results.
217 qualified for MSC because they are ranked 32nd in the state.

You can see the full rankings here: http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2013/...13_season.html

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I predict that the winner will not come from the #1 seeded alliance.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I dont mean this in an "cocky" way but I do feel that our full court shooting is as good or better than HOT's FCS. Just a personal opinion maybe but number wise it shows.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I was referring to THE Championship, not the Michigan Championship. 217 has apparently cleared the Championship waitlist, which they would have been able to get on early since they didn't go last year.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I'm really not trying to call you out...but, I'm just wondering what numbers do you have that shows that?

Max Teleop OPR would say we have a 51 to 33 advantage in scoring/match. That data was spot on with our actual teleop scoring contribution/match @ Troy.

I know you guys are really good...and any FCS on the opposite alliance scares the crap out of me...so hopefully if we are in the same match, we end up on the same side.

Honestly, I hope that we never attempt a FCS all weekend. I doubt that will be the case, but we have plans that will hopefully be more conducive to elimination style play.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I believe that 3 out of the 4 years of MSC, the winner has come from the #1 alliance.

- 2009 - 217/67/65 - #1 alliance
- 2010 - 1918/469/2834 - #1 alliance
- 2011 - 33/67/70 - #2 alliance
- 2012 - 469/67/830 - #1 alliance

If I had to make a prediction, I would say whatever alliance 469 is on, will be the winner.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Gotcha. I was confused, as this was a thread about MSC. :) Sorry about that.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Just to clarify, team 3539 has not yet utilized the feeder station. At both of our events, we've been scoring discs from the ground, averaging 3-6 loads per match. However, with the likely increase in shooter accuracy at MSC, we feel that there will be matches where there aren't enough discs on the floor for us. We're looking to begin utilizing the feeder station for the first time at MSC.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Well since 67 has been on three out of four of those winning alliances, I would like to put my money on HOT. Isn't 67 the only team to be playing in the finals all 4 years?

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I think a lot of teams feel this way here and there. Hey I feel that we 3414 are better than some of the teams on here, but I also feel some very good robots where left off, even just from honorable mentions: 3641

We have this proof that we are better, our max OPR (50.5 from Livonia) is better than other cycle teams on the list, 27, 1189, 3656. Our average OPR will put us ahead of some others as well. Plus a finalist and district winner is nothing to hold back either. Truthfully with our history and capabilities at the start of the season, its just an honor to be mentioned on the same playing field as some of these teams.


Overall these are always great to read and bring up great points and always get close to what will actually happen. I think that 469 is the team to beat right now and I have a feeling that they have the inside track to the #1 seed, with 33 being right behind them. I'm still hedging on the bet that there will be no tall full court shooters in the finals. Then again there will be some good ones available for teams like 33 or 469 to pick the second time around, and we all know what that could mean....

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Just for fun... Assuming FIM current rankings are used to accurately show team rank...
Alliance,Captain, First pick, Second pick
#1 33, 469, 1189
#2 2054, 2474, 3234
#3 1718, 862, 68
#4 1918, 2959, 314
#5 3656, 245, 67
#6 27, 3618, 2619
#7 3414, 2851, 3641
#8 70, 1684, 3539

Honorable mentions to missing teams, 1701, 2612, 2000, 51, 217, 573, 326, 1025, 910, 2771, 494, 1023, 2337, 503

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Our scouting data base was where I have information from. But yes I agree with the not shooting full court all the time, agree 100% with you and feel the same for us. I was more referring to the fact that we weren't even on the list. But I do want to have a match with 2 FCS.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

At Bedford, there was a match with 326 vs 910 and 503...

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Would be interested in seeing this type of analysis for MAR champs as well

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

And there was one with *all* of 326, 910, 469 v 33, 3302, 3357 (match 40). What a shootout! :yikes:

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Yep. And I still think it won't be the #1 seed who wins :)

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Alliance 3 all the way!

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Ok, Jared, you have to let us in on your thought process. Your posts have me interested.

There's one reason why I think the #1 seed might not do it this year: the field is so even that many (if not most) of the matches will be a crap shoot. The schedule will be important and there's a decent chance of a surprise team being the #1 seed.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

FiM Informer, Really good analysis but 314 should have been in the FCS list. Are you sure you didn't typo 3414? I didn't remember them being an FCS, but I did not see their Livonia performance.

I would actually say, from an FCS perspective, 67 and 314 are really close. I was at Detroit and Troy where both of those teams competed as their second events and showcased really well FCS. Compairing events is tough because while Detroit had a lot of blockers, they teams didn't really use them much, and 314 was given open field several times where as 67 would often use the Gun and Run FCS/Cycler hybrid at Troy. 67 and 469 are much more versatile teams with FCS, but 314 has likely delivered more discs this season from that location.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

It could be, we pretended once at Waterford when we had a very good matchup, but did not work well. We are better at cycling and have little if any plans to attempt many if any full court shots. We robot can do it, but we are more efficient cycling.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I'd just like to say the our non-opr based scouting data put us at an avg 50 pts per match, and you guys hung out around 37. We picked 1189 in eliminations because they were above you in our scouting, and we worked together very well during qualifications.

So OPR, by no means, is ever correct. It's a good approximation, but only when you've got the actual, delimited data is when it's effective. I'd like to wait an see how MSC plays out before making any calls, because I can't possibly be accurate based on some teams not having even played for a few weeks, and others changing dramatically over the course of the season.

In no way am I saying that Team RUSH is going to to MSC to kick butt and chew bubble gum, except we're all out of bubble gum. I know that the fields we played at were of completely different caliber to the likes of troy and Bedford, with the commanding teams going into MSC, along with other teams up there. I know we're competitive and will give 100%, but I just don't know where that fits within the field.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

There will not be a FCS in the semifinals. Period. Full court shooters have shown little reliability in elims where people can slap on a blocker to their bot over lunch. Maybe an FCS will be able to squeeze their way into an alliance captain spot, but they will not be successful unless they are versatile or it isn't a main goal of their bot (e.g. 469). The top 4 alliances will all have 7 disc autonomous capability, the top 2 featuring a total 15 disc. Ultimately, 469 seeds first, picks 33, and the third pick just has a strong drivetrain, 3 disc autonomous, and the ability to cycle. Exclusive 30pt climbers will be second picks of 5-8 alliances, and lose in QF.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I think the odds are lower than in the past that the #1 seed will be one of the two or three highest scoring robots.

I think the odds are higher than in the past that a better-on-paper alliance can be beaten in the eliminations.

If I multiply out the probabilities, I think it is more likely than not that the #1 seed will not win the event.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

That's how MSC felt to me in 2011. Every alliance hit the diminishing returns in tubes and had strong minibots such that most matches seemed like a "minibot coin toss."

We've certainly seen surprise top seeds before. I don't think very many people expected 1918 to seed 1st in 2010 or 217 in 2011, though they were both strong teams. 1918 went all the way, of course. 217 lost in the QFs, but had a great CMP, captaining Newton's 7th alliance to Einstein.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I believe the full court shooter plays a very different role here; it fulfills the saying "the best defense is a good offense." In the case of elimination matches such as seed 1 versus seed 8, where the third robots on the alliance will be of rather varying in capability (an OPR as high as 60 in the 8th seed, and as low as 20 in the first seed) a third robot full court shooter requires the other third robot to cease normal defense (that would have prevented pyramid play of the first and second robots of the first seed) or leave the FCS undefended, thus allowing it to score many more disks than the other third robot. In the likely chance that the defense is pulled, the match then becomes a 2v2, with a distinct advantage for the 1st alliance.

On the topic of First seeded alliances, Michigan has been dominated by the first seed, with 9 of 11 district competitions being won by their first seed. The only time a fist alliance didn't win was when one of their main shooters wasn't functioning properly (Troy) or the field was very even to begin with (Livonia.) It's possible that MSC could mirror Livonia, but that won't be clear, as this is the first chance each of these teams has had to compete in a field this diverse and this difficult.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

All we can say now is let the fun begin and may the best teams win. Lets see how MSC plays out and how close these predictions are.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I agree of most of what has been said in this thread. I think MSC will be about diversification and adaptation. The more you can do and are willing to adapt to the better off you will be. I feel good about our mix of "talents" but there are a number of things you can not predict but can only react to. The depth of talented teams and robots in this competition is something you don't see at the district level and stategy has to evolve to suit that reality. By rough count we have played with and competed against roughly 1/3 of the teams at MSC leaving 2/3 that we have little or no direct experience with this season. Then factor in if you were at a first district event with a team, they have probably improved significantly. I know it will be a great event.

To our friends from the east side, don't under estimate the west side teams that make it here. I have seen most of them first hand and the ones that make it have earned it and might just suprise you.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

This is spot on. We used this strategy at three regionals and it paid off. Having a FCS and a strong pyramid shooter/cycler often means that they have to pick one or the other to block, leaving one capable robot unattended. I think this is the role we will see in champs, they will be a great distraction at worst and a devastator at best.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Only if team 11 was at the Michigan State Championship..

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Is there a webcast tomorrow?

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

http://www.coderedrobotics.com/webcast/

Matches start at 3pm tomorrow..

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

2851 Has always been able to pick up of the floor but we only use it for our autons. incase you haven't actually seen any of the matches that we got jammed with 2 disks and used our arm to dunk 1 pointers.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I have to agree with Jared. At an event with the depth such as Michigan, I think the number one alliance is gonna have to really work to win it.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

There is also the stream from Detroit Public Television. http://www.dptv.org/robotics

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

That's Saturday only.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

We, 2771, will be webcasting MSC as well. We will be streaming Thursday, Friday and Saturday all day, starting sometime Thursday morning. We will be doing a dual feed, one of the full field and one field view. The webcast can be found at www.coderedrobotics.com/webcast.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

The best way to watch matches in Michigan this season is on the FiM YouTube page. They are shot in HD with a GoPro fisheye and posted within minutes of the end of the match.

Hopefully they will have this set up like they have all season.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTinMichigan/videos?view=0

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

That same view is live at:
http://www.twitch.tv/firstinmichigan

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

And a beautiful thing it is, too! Thanks 2337!

Wow -- the practice matches! Routinely putting up 100+ for both sides, flirting with 200 for "just three robots"! This is going to be some show!!!

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Um, can anyone post a video of 67 going up the tower? I just saw the match where they drove up and "spit" for 20 and am incredibly confused as to where that arm came from...I really don't think there's enough space within their robot for an arm of the size it is to have come out of the belly of their robot...:rolleyes: (but seriously, :confused:)

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

There's plenty of space. Their arm is very similar to 1114 - they climb the same way.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I think 217 and 1023's arms work the same way to... although 217 has yet to climb the tower.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Still has not been a match where both alliances were under 100 points absolutely crazy how much quality there is

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I was kidding...it's an incredibly designed robot and by far one of the most compact I've seen. The sheer point density in that robot is amazing.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

To top that, there was a match at bedford with 326, 910, and 469 vs 3302, 3357 and 33. Both 326 and 910 went for the full court option while 469 did some crazy ground pick up all over the field. we put up a huge shield but we unable to effectively shut the 2 FCS down. though we only lost by 6 points. that alliance had potential to run with 3 FCS.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Sorry. Sarcasm is hard to read :)

Yes, 67 will be incredibly scary once everything is going 100%.

Who am I kidding, they're scary now.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Lunchtime Friday observation:

Team 3572 has had 6 matches, their alliance scores have been 160,145,122,112,175,181.

They are 1-5; their only win was the 112 score.

Ouch.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I will miss regionals but this makes me excited for an eventual move to districts for some reason.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

That 186-181 match (#57) must have been a heartbreaker.
I would guess that 181 is the highest score posted by a losing alliance this year

FYI at MSC the LOSING alliance average score is currently 111.5!
winning:150.6
So competitive...

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

This spreadsheet has two tables analyzing the Qual schedule:

1) For each team at MSC, what teams were on alliances with them, and

2) For each team at MSC, what teams were on alliances against them

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...8&d=1365722972

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

The average loosing score at MSC is higher than the average winning score at Waterloo. I'm impressed.

EDIT: 33, 67, and 1918 just put up an insane score. New world high score, 247, with 3 foul points.

33 climber for 10, 67 climbed for 30 and dumped 15.

1918 was at the 20 point level, with 3 red disks in possession, when they fell.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

What was the auton score for Red?

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I saw 1 missed disk out of 13, so somewhere in the 72 range.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

From my count, it should be 72. Looks like they hit 12/13 shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohLW...Kd9wHV&index=2

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

For those who missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ohLWO_Du60

According to twitter, 72

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

didn't 1114 and 2056 put up a 277 score?

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

With 89 foul points.

Another match they put up 243 no fouls.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

That was with 89 foul points.

I believe they also scored 244 once with 4069. Not sure what the foul points there were.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Gregor above me is right in both instances. Waterloo Q28 was the 277 points match, while Q1M2 was 243 points without fouls.

Matches in question: Q1M2 and Q28

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Have the point rankings for who qualified for championships been posted anywhere? When/where will they be posted?

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

My tentative answer from what I could see on the webcast.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=49

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I finished processing the official final FiM rankings and gave it to my daughter Kristen (the FiM webmaster) to post. It should be up by now. There is a link from the home page at www.firstinmichigan.org

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Hi Ed. I think I may have found a small error. It says that 910 has registered for champs, but the FIRST site says differently.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

A representative from FIRST confirmed that 910 received an invitation to attend recently and 910 intended to go but did not have a chance to pay yet. Hence their team number did not show up as of today. It is not an error.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Ed, great job in getting that done! It was awesome for the teams going, to hear it there at state championship.

And it was great meeting you there and thanks for the work you do.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Looks like we were both right.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

I can also confirm this. We found out on Friday that we got off the wait list and were invited to participate. We have accepted, we just need to pay as Ed said.

Michigan State Championship Recap
 

The Michigan State Championship did not disappoint. There were incredibly high scores and incredibly close matches. You’ve heard many of the statistics already, but let’s rehash: The average qualification Winning-Losing score were 153-111. Michigan provided a new World Record High Score of 244*, by an alliance that could’ve scored 45 more if one robot hadn’t fallen off the pyramid. There’s a new World Record Highest Losing Score of 192 in QF 2-1. Michigan has also created a new World Record Autonomous Score of 90, courtesy of the amazing #2 alliance. This event had unmatched depth: the 24th highest OPR was a ridiculously high 49. If the robots did not provide enough drama, the Detroit Public Television webcast brought MSC to another level, presenting FIRST to the world in a way never before seen.

But let’s talk about what you might not have noticed. Nearly one out of four qualification matches had a combined score over 300, plus another 11 matches in eliminations, for a total of 41. This happened only 26 times in Week 1 through 6. Michigan teams scored over 200 points 7 times in qualifications this weekend (the 2054/67/2337 alliance did it twice more in elims). With 67 and 469 involved in three and two of those, respectively, it was no surprise to see them playing for it all in the finals.

Defense played a really minimal role in qualifications, with every team trying to show off their scoring abilities. However, once we got into Saturday afternoon, everything changed. Several teams that had played primary scorer for their alliances at districts made a quick transition to playing tough in the trenches. This sudden change in strategy meant that scores did not increase from qualifications to eliminations as much as they usually would at a normal event. The increase in average score of 23% is a long shot lower than the 77% difference between elim and qual scores in week 1 through 6.

Speaking of long shots, full-court shooting did not play as much of a role in eliminations as many expected. However, it was the two alliances that most effectively utilized full-court shooting that made it to the final, whether it was 67’s deadly accurate shots or 217’s long passes down the field to their pickup partners.

As expected, pure cyclers encountered trouble. Almost every robot in the eliminations cycled at one point or another, but only one alliance that relied heavily on cycling made it to the semifinals. By the finals, every team still in the competition had some other ability. It really was the pickups who were in the greatest demand. Four of the six versatile finalist teams had pickups and the top three alliances had four of the best pickups in Michigan.

In fact, the top alliances each had their own specialisations. The #1 alliance played the FCS game to perfection, dedicated one of their robots solely to offensive blocking. The #2 alliance had an auton advantage in every one of their elimination matches, thanks to 3539’s effective 7-disc and 469’s centerline autonomous modes. The #4 alliance could’ve beaten most alliances across the country with their 100-point endgame alone.

In the end, I can’t help but wonder what might have happened if 67 hadn’t had drivetrain problems, if 2054 hadn’t had shooter motor wires come unplugged, but I get the feeling that the outcome would have been the same.

In the first match of the MSC finals, the #2 alliance tried to simply outscore the #1 alliance and failed magnificently. There’s a saying that “the hardest thing to do in sports is to walk into your locker room at halftime of the Championship game and change the strategy that got you there because it’s not working.” 469 put together a great alliance that could win a lot of different ways and they switched up their strategy. 217 played the defensive menace role beautifully despite jerry-rigging their FCS blocker between finals matches. There’s no questioning that that #2 alliance earned their State Championship.

Good luck to all teams and see you next year!


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*Note that this is excluding foul points. The actual score of this match was 247 with 3 foul points. The next highest score worldwide was 243.

Re: An in depth look at the Michigan State Championship
 

Good call!