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-   -   [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115956)

EricDrost 11-04-2013 12:22
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErvinI (Post 1260456)
For reference's sake, here's a comparison between their Max OPR Rank and their FRCTop25 rank:

Top 25---- Max OPR Rank (Average OPR Rank)
1983 does quite a bit better in this regard:
1983--- 25 (95)


But that uses week five data, not week six.
Edit: My mistake, it uses week six data. I assumed it used week 5 because it was posted in the week 5 OPR thread.

D.Allred 11-04-2013 12:52
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Mike and Justin, I appreciate all the time and effort put into a very entertaining show. FRC Top 25 is great fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_poldon (Post 1260451)
It's amazing to here feedback like this. Our team has worked hard for 10 years and have come 2nd countless times. As a senior member of team 1310, I've gone through 5 finals against 1114 and 2056 (to lose them all). However, both teams we view as role models and the push us and other Canadian teams to excellence. This year we finally pulled through to advance to the Championships (first time in team history), with help from the wild card and our Waterloo eliminations alliance(610 and 3756).
This year in particular, our team has definitely stepped up our game. Without the help from teachers(due to the Ontario Teachers Work Action), we have relied on the support of our principal and mentors. This has been our most successful season by far and it's not over yet.
Jack, I've seen your team play. You are scary good. Hope to play WITH you in St Louis.

Mike Starke 11-04-2013 13:03
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1260357)
FRCtop25 used to do a coaches poll; and it was decent and accurate. The current rankings are garbage, it's more about buzz and hype than anything else.
Thanks for voting to change that.... oh wait... you didn't. How can you complain that the rankings are garbage when you don't vote yourself?! Who knows what your vote could have done to the rankings. "Be the change you want to see in the world..."


Justin and I have never claimed that these rankings are anywhere close to official. We have always said, the more voters, the more evened out it will be. We do this for fun; a way to talk robotics throughout the week, a time to share with other FIRST addicts, a way to laugh and have fun on a Wednesday night. The rankings are secondary to all of that.

But in other news. Thank you for all of the support guys. We can't tell you how much we appreciate all the support and love. It means more than you will ever know. Thanks for giving us a reason to keep going.

connor.worley 11-04-2013 13:08
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Starke (Post 1260504)
We have always said, the more voters, the more evened out it will be.
Somehow, I don't see this making the rankings more insightful. For the same reasons we hold Looking Forward posts and the like above normal chatter.

Mike Starke 11-04-2013 13:11
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
More voters would imply more voters from across the country. Maybe the reason why 1983 wasn't in the top 25 was because there's not too many voters in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe why Southeastern US teams didn't get many votes was because of the same reason. People tend to vote based on the teams they've seen. Maybe a Northeatern voter hasn't watched must westcoast events. Maybe our voters are Michigan/MAR heavy. Who knows.
I know I'm not making much sense, but the logic is there. The more voters the better.

AdamHeard 11-04-2013 13:12
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
I did vote... In the coaches poll... and that was cancelled.

I love the concept of the show, my fault is with the voting process. Even if everyone informed votes, they will be drowned out tenfold by the rest of chiefdelphi. This was very evident in the 2011 rankings comparing the public vs. coaches poll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Starke (Post 1260504)
Thanks for voting to change that.... oh wait... you didn't. How can you complain that the rankings are garbage when you don't vote yourself?! Who knows what your vote could have done to the rankings. "Be the change you want to see in the world..."


Justin and I have never claimed that these rankings are anywhere close to official. We have always said, the more voters, the more evened out it will be. We do this for fun; a way to talk robotics throughout the week, a time to share with other FIRST addicts, a way to laugh and have fun on a Wednesday night. The rankings are secondary to all of that.

But in other news. Thank you for all of the support guys. We can't tell you how much we appreciate all the support and love. It means more than you will ever know. Thanks for giving us a reason to keep going.

EricDrost 11-04-2013 13:58
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1260511)
I did vote... In the coaches poll... and that was cancelled.

I love the concept of the show, my fault is with the voting process. Even if everyone informed votes, they will be drowned out tenfold by the rest of chiefdelphi. This was very evident in the 2011 rankings comparing the public vs. coaches poll.
Considering there are probably under 100 voters, by your standards there are only 10 informed people in all of FRC? Nice.

Andrew Schreiber 11-04-2013 14:01
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1260511)
I love the concept of the show, my fault is with the voting process. Even if everyone informed votes, they will be drowned out tenfold by the rest of chiefdelphi. This was very evident in the 2011 rankings comparing the public vs. coaches poll.
You love the concept of the show yet you complain it's a bunch of uninformed voting. Sounds to me like you don't like the concept at all. It's one of the biggest problems with democracy, the uninformed are equal to the informed.

Disclaimer — I agree which is why I don't even pay much attention to where I rank/don't rank.

PayneTrain 11-04-2013 14:18
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Hey I just wanted to let everyone know I disagree with the voting system for a peer poll that has no real impact and is just for fun, and because of this I'm pretty sure the teams I work on just aren't going to enter robots next year. Anyone else want to join in? Protest! Protest!

Or we could wait for cooler heads to prevail. This is all just... I just can't... sigh.

Andrew Schreiber 11-04-2013 14:28
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1260532)
Hey I just wanted to let everyone know I disagree with the voting system for a peer poll that has no real impact and is just for fun, and because of this I'm pretty sure the teams I work on just aren't going to enter robots next year. Anyone else want to join in? Protest! Protest!

Or we could wait for cooler heads to prevail. This is all just... I just can't... sigh.
BUT ROWBOATS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS! /s

Bill_B 11-04-2013 14:28
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Occupy ? ? ? ? Where? ;) :D Get rowdy in chat and you'll simply get banned. :rolleyes: :eek:

AdamHeard 11-04-2013 14:44
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1260525)
You love the concept of the show yet you complain it's a bunch of uninformed morons voting. Sounds to me like you don't like the concept at all. It's one of the biggest problems with democracy, the uninformed are equal to the informed.

Disclaimer — I agree which is why I don't even pay much attention to where I rank/don't rank.
I like the concept of a top 25 show. I disagree with how the top25 are ranked. Not sure where the confusion lies.

You're also putting words in my mouth; uninformed does not imply morons.

Andrew Schreiber 11-04-2013 14:48
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1260550)
I like the concept of a top 25 show. I disagree with how the top25 are ranked. Not sure where the confusion lies.

You're also putting words in my mouth; uninformed does not imply morons.
You're right, I added the words morons because I was thinking it. My apologies. I'll edit the post.

So you like he idea of a Top25 but not the idea of the uninformed voting on it. How would you suggest ranking them? Numeric methods probably won't work due to differences in regional strengths. Finding a group of "informed" won't work since there's no real defined qualification.

AdamHeard 11-04-2013 14:51
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1260552)
You're right, I added the words morons because I was thinking it. My apologies. I'll edit the post.

So you like he idea of a Top25 but not the idea of the uninformed voting on it. How would you suggest ranking them? Numeric methods probably won't work due to differences in regional strengths. Finding a group of "informed" won't work since there's no real defined qualification.
In 2011 a coaches poll was run side by side with the public poll. I forget who all the coaches were, but this concept worked and both top 25's were displayed.

It'd also be awesome to implement a pure statistical top25 w/ FIM style points that are standardized to cover different # of matches played.

If a public, coach, and statistical ranking were done, a combined ranking of the three could also be done.

Andrew Schreiber 11-04-2013 14:56
Re: [FRCTop25.com] Final Rankings Show!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1260554)
In 2011 a coaches poll was run side by side with the public poll. I forget who all the coaches were, but this concept worked and both top 25's were displayed.

It'd also be awesome to implement a pure statistical top25 w/ FIM style points that are standardized to cover different # of matches played.

If a public, coach, and statistical ranking were done, a combined ranking of the three could also be done.

Tell ya what, let's make that happen.

Mike/Justin, any chance you could contact the folks you had doing the voting in 2011 and collect lists from them? (or pass the list my way and I'll do it)

I'll have the TwentyFour guys work up a FiM style point list, an OPR, and a CCWM list. (Yes Drost, that means you too)

Let's see how they all come out, I'm curious.


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